Talk:Carnival Corporation & plc

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[edit] Name

"Carnival Corporation & Plc", is that a UK subsidiary?--Jerryseinfeld 00:19, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Merger and the Surviving Corporate Name

In regards to a statement made in Carnival Corporation & Plc by User:Carina22 stating that Carnival Corporation & Plc was formerly known as P&O Princess is incorrect! Carnival Corporation was a separate independently operated cruise line owned by Micky Arison and his family for nearly 40 years and P&O Princess was a United Kingdom publicly traded cruise line to which Mr. Arison and his family had absolutely NO affiliation with until the Carnival-P&O Princess merger occurred. So basically after the merger was completed P&O Princess became a subsidary of Carnival and the P&O name was dropped in favor of the Carnival name but the way you wrote it, it made it look like Carnival was always called P&O Princess which as stated before is an incorrect statement to make. User:Misterrick 05:10, 05 July 2005 (UTC).

No it isn't a subsidiary, it is a dual listed company. This is an unusual arrangement, so read the article if you don't know what it means. So far as I know Carnival is the only major "American" dual listed company, but we have several in the UK so we are more familiar with the concept. Carina22 06:37, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Again, In accurate statements being made by Carina22. Yes, P&O Princess did become a subsidary under the new dual listed company and again Carnival was never formerly known as P&O Princess, As stated before P&O Princess was a separate company that mergered with Carnival, In fact Carnival was started 40 years before Princess even existed so how can Carnival have been formerly known as P&O Princess when P&O Princess didn't even exist when Carnival was first started by Micky Arison's father? Additionally on the Carnival Corporation & Plc website it states, "On April 17, 2003, Carnival Corporation (NYSE: CCL) and P&O Princess Cruises plc (LSE: POC) merged via a dual listed company structure (DLC). Subsequently, P&O Princess Cruises plc has changed its name to Carnival plc." so there is no way that Carnival could ever have been formerly known as P&O Princess. Misterrick 19:52, 12 July 2005 (UTC).

No, Carnival plc was formerly P&O Princess Cruises. The problem is that you still don't understand what a dual listed company is. The quotation you give does not state or imply that P&O Princess Cruises plc became a subsidiary of Carnival Corporation, because it didn't. They both became holding companies of a dual listed company. Carnival Corporation was never called P&O Princess, but Carnival Plc was. This is possible because Carnival Corporation and Carnival Plc are two separate, independently quoted companies. Carnival plc is the same legal entity as P&O Princess Cruises with the same shareholder body but a different name, just the same as if Ford changed its name to Detroit Motors it would be the same legal entity with the same shareholder body. The only difference is that now Carnival Plc is one of the two holding companies of Carnival Corporation & Plc. Corporation and Plc are two companies with separate shareholder bodies and neither owns the other, which is a what being a dual listed company is about.
Deleting a paragraph and marking that as a minor edit is not appropriate.
And finally P&O is a lot older than Carnival Corporation. The Peninsular and Oriental Steam Navigation Company was founded in 1837, and P&O Princess Cruises demerged from it on 23 October 2000.Carina22 09:46, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

You know Carina22, I'll let you have it because your being such an a--hole, I do know what a dual listed company is but you can't get it through your head what I am trying to tell you and by the way P&O doesn't stand for Princess and Orient, it's Pacific and Orient and P&O didn't found Princess they acquired it in the 60s or 70s so Carnival Cruise Lines is older. Misterrick 21:15, 28 July 2005 (UTC)


I have to disagree with Carina22 on this one as well. This demerger thing is giving me a headache. From what I understand using my own knowledge:

  • Carnival Cruise Lines is formed by Arison
  • P&O Princess Cruises is formed later by P&O
  • Carnival Corp/PLC is formed after Carnival gobbles up a bunch of other cruise lines. The Corp/PLC puts all of the lines (Carnival/HAL/Costa) under one umbrella)
  • Princess Cruises demerges from the main P&O and becomes it's own company dealing only with cruises (The company has several cruise brands under its umbrella)
  • Carnival and Princess merge, or perhaps Princess is bought out. Anyway, Princess becomes another cruise brand under the umbrella of Carnival Corp/PLC

I don't think Carnival was ever called P&O BEFORE the two companies merged. They had no relations with each other until the merger.

Here is the company history website: [[1]]

  • It says that in 2003, Carnival Corp (including brands Carnival/HAL etc) merged with P&O Princess Cruises plc (consisting of Princess, P&O, and AIDA cruises). Perhaps the names were merged to become Carnival Corporation & plc

After further research, I found this confusing text from cruisecritic.com about Princess:

  • Princess is now part of the industry's giant Carnival Corporation a move that occurred when Carnival acquired the cruise line's parent company -- U.K.-based P&O Cruises.

And regarding P&O Cruises ...

  • It acquired Los Angeles-based Princess Cruises in 1974 and Sitmar Cruises in 1988, which P&O chose to merge. Even more expansion followed for its Princess Cruises subsidiary. In October 2000, the company underwent another major change: P&O's parent company was acquired by Carnival Corporation and is now known as P&O Princess.

And Taken from P&O Cruises' website:

  • In April 2004 P&O Princess plc, the parent company of P&O Cruises, joined together with Carnival Corporation, bringing together two of the best known and most successful organisations in the cruise industry. Already Britain’s market leading cruise company, P&O Cruises is now part of one of the world’s largest leisure travel companies.
  • P&O Princess Cruises demerged from the Peninsular and Oriental Steam Navigation Company on 23 October 2000 when it started trading as an independent company on the London and New York Stock Exchanges. Carnival Plc is now the third largest cruise company in the world by revenue

In conclusion, I'm totally confused!

[edit] Ships

you listed historic cunard ships like RMS Queen Elizabeth 1940 and old Carpathia under Carnival Corp. ships. What's that? It's wrong! QE 2 and QM 2 are okay. 10:01, July,29th 2005 DEF

I'd argue that since Cunard is now a subsidiary of Carnival Corporation, that these were correctly placed. As would RMS Titanic for example. However it would have to be properly noted. JonEastham 15:27, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
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