Wikipedia:Canadian wikipedians' notice board/discussion/Archive 2

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[edit] Reminder

Just wanted to remind y'all that normal Wikipedia convention for articles about people is that the article should be titled with the person's most common name whenever possible. Frex, the Supreme Court justice should have been listed at Ian Binnie, not William Ian Corneil Binnie, since he's always been known as Ian professionally; the former justice minister who died last week is properly at Ron Basford rather than Stanley Ronald Basford. A person's rarely-used extra names should only go in the article title if they provide a helpful disambiguator from another person with the same name (eg. all those darned Donald Macdonalds and John Macdonalds and Angus McDonalds and John MacDougalls). The full name can go in the body of the article, but Wikipedia's stated policy is that the title goes at the common name; redirects should point from the full name to the common one, not vice versa. Bearcat 03:09, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Federal government entities

A user has recently added a number of crown corporations (e.g. the Canada Council and Canadian Museum of Civilization) to Category:Canadian federal departments and agencies. I disagree with this decision as I feel there are important differences between a crown corporation and a department or agency. What do others think? - SimonP 03:17, Feb 6, 2005 (UTC)

I tend to think they're one and the same. Spinboy 03:33, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)
My arguments in favor of grouping all federal government "entities" or "agents" has been given to SimonP at his Talk page. If you search the statutes at the Justice Canada website, you will be hard pressed to find a common definition of a so-called Crown corporation (first invented by C.D. Howe for Air Canada, CNR). The Canada Council for the Arts Act explicitly says it is not an agent of Her Majesty, but very few other acts say this. The government has folded or sold off most "crown corporations" of the war-time and post-war era, and now creates all kinds of entities which report through a minister who is a member of the Queen's Privy council for Canada (Canadian Space Agency, Canadian Food Inspection Agency, Parks Canada Agency, various museums). You have to carefully examine each statute to see what the entity's status is. Of course, there are differences between federal entities, but they were created by the Parliament of Canada by statute and with few exceptions are subject to Parliament, report directly or indirectly through a minister, are subject to the Auditor General and a host of other federal acts which vary from entity to entity. If they have a board and a CEO, they are usually named by order-in-council during pleasure, and they get most of their money from Parliament. Is making a distinction really worthwhile when the word "agency" in any dictionary is broad enough to cover most federal entities. You can create too many sub-categories. I am not absolutely opposed, but I would want to see a definition of "Crown corporation" based on some federal law which can be applied evenly and consistently in a typology.--BrentS 03:39, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I agree with SimonP. Clearly there are significant distinctions between departments, Crown Corporations and Special Operating Agencies. Unlike Federal Government Departments, Crown Corporations are not subject to laws such as the Public Service Employment Act, and the Public Service Staff Relations Act; they are not subject to oversight by Treasury Board and the Public Service Commission. The agencies BrentS refers to (e.g. Canadian Space Agency, Canada Parks) are neither Departments nor Crown Corporations. For the most part, they are formerly branches of government departments that have a clear and distinct mandate and have been separated from the mother department. The differences between the three structures are complex. For anyone curious about the distinctions there is a good overview by the Privy Council Office [1]. To further complicate matters, you have Federal Boards and Commissions (which behave like agencies) and Provincial Crown Corporations. I would prefer to see them kept separate, otherwise it will be a huge (and unmanageable) list. Sunray 06:51, 2005 Mar 1 (UTC)

[edit] User:JillandJack and NPOV disputes

JillandJack have added NPOV tags to Lower Canada Rebellion, Chateau Clique, Quebec sovereignty movement, Médard des Groseilliers, and Pierre-Esprit Radisson, yet they refuse to discuss what the problem is, exactly. They have also posted to their userpage that they will not discuss the matter with those who have perpetrated the bias - since I have asked them twice to explain themselves, and I either wrote or had a large part in writing four of those five articles, I can only assume they mean me. At the moment I assume they are just trolling and I was about to revert the NPOV tags, but hopefully the other Canadians here can help discover this mysterious bias first. Adam Bishop 19:32, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Hmm.. I removed the NPOV tags he added. He seems to have reverted some back, adding some "reasoning" to the said pages... ✏ OvenFresh☺ 20:10, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] List of Ontario premiers

There is a large blank space before the actual list. Is the graphic at the right really needed since it is on the Premier of Ontario page? Perhaps someone could fix this page.--BrentS 03:58, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

  • I commented out the {{Politics of Ontario}} because it was interfering with the table (it was overlayed on top of it). --Deathphoenix 14:20, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Acadian

Could this category be deleted? There is a category Acadia for the French speaking areas of Atlantic Canada. There is no category Canadian or New Brunswicker, so why for the adjective Acadian? It would involve only moving the article Acadian French to the category Acadia.--BrentS 15:49, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I agree, redirect the category to Acadia and merge articles. Is therean Acadian people category? --Circeus 17:39, Feb 10, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Wikiportal/United States of America

I just noticed this Wikipedia:Wikiportal/United States of America. Should we have a Canadian version? --YUL89YYZ 16:33, Feb 10, 2005 (UTC)

It DOES have the potential to increase the board and its related subject (CCOTW) popularity and participation, but how do we give it more visibility? --Circeus 17:51, Feb 10, 2005 (UTC)
I'd say why not? In fact, I just created that page. It's only a skeleton as of right now; I shall leave it up to all of you to "fill in the blanks." Denelson83 18:34, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Added a featured article. We should do a list, I think, of great Canada-related articles for that feature. --Circeus 21:16, Feb 13, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Community Wikis?

Hello. A couple of months ago, a started the Calgary Community wiki. Is anyone aware of any other Canadian community wikis? I know that there is the Vancouver wiki, but it does not currently have any significant content. I think it would be great if every major city had one. -- James Teterenko (talk) 04:14, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

  • There's one for educational workshops in Toronto at Anarchist U, but I don't know if there's a general interest one for TO. Bearcat 20:33, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I've created a Toronto one ([2]). Didn't think I had, because when I tried my browser window just couldn't seem to complete the request, but looks like it went through anyway. Bearcat 03:05, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

That's awesome. Hopefully we will have active communities for every major city. I would probably contribute a bit to wikis for Saskatoon, Edmonton, and/or Winnipeg, since I spend a bit of time in those cities. -- James Teterenko (talk) 06:09, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Are there a lot of Edmontonians here intrested in creating/maintaining a Wikicities page for Edmonton? --Sasquatch 06:18, Apr 17, 2005 (UTC)
I'd help out with this. I could see the Edmonton & Calgary wikis cross linking a fair amount and making both stronger. A blatently obvious example would be something like the Jubilee Auditorium. -- JamesTeterenko 07:24, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

There is a new wiki for Kitchener-Waterloo [3] but so far it does not seem to attract many contributors. Brona 02:37, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Is this place notable?

I stumbled across Thunder Bay Community Auditorium while doing some maintainance work - is this notable or encycopedic? Either way, I figured this was the best place to list it. Cheers, Alphax (t) (c) (e) 02:31, Feb 14, 2005 (UTC)

Seems notable enough; it looks like the biggest arts venue in the area, so encyclopedic enough IMO. Radagast 18:26, Feb 14, 2005 (UTC)
Fine - needs more links to it, and something done about the giant image. Alphax (t) (c) (e) 03:03, Feb 15, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Image in David Miller

Hi, I'd appreciate any feedback you can provide at Talk:David Miller. I'm wondering if it's best to place the first image that's there right now under a subheading, and instead using an "official" image of the mayor as the first image in the article. Thanks! --Deathphoenix 19:31, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Cities in Ontario

An anon user recently changed the population figures for a number of Ontario cities to reflect a fictitious 2004 census. Most changes were subtle and not likely to be noticed if you didn't know what was going on, but one was glaringly obvious: Greater Sudbury most certainly did not grow from 155,000 to 221,000 in just three years. Please, if you can, keep an eye on Ontario cities for these types of edits. Bearcat 00:56, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Request for... / Offer...

I see a "Request for" Section at the top, but no "Offer ..." section. For exemple, I live in Montreal, and could easily take pictures around the University of Montreal Campus. Could a "Offer..." section be useful? - Sepper 01:36, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] NDP news

I believe the New_Democratic_Party_Shadow_Cabinet was shuffled a few weeks ago. AndyL 12:27, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Well, the official list [4] matches the article... Radagast 13:28, Feb 21, 2005 (UTC)
I updated the article yesterday. AndyL 14:00, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Geography of Canada: an analysis

Copy/paste of what I added to Talk:Geography of Canada:

Here is a list of things that must be done berfore the article is fit for Featured article submition

  • Write up Geography_of_Canada#The_Arctic
  • Expand the other sections to be more comprehensive
    • Include more material about secondary, but notable features, like secondary mountain ranges, notable rivers and lakes...
    • Separate Canadian rockies and Pacific coasts
  • Create an Hydrography section, including a link to rivers of Canada
  • Create an ecogeography section about the main ecologic regions found in Canada. See Nearctic (maybe too specific) and Floristic province: Rockies, west of the rockies, tundra, plains, coniferous boreal forest, mixed forest, Broadleaf forest (can be divided in more specific areas, but these are the needed ones for te purpose of this article)
  • Appropriate Geological, ecological and hydrographic maps
  • Not necessary but would make a good impression not to have a bunch or red links under See also

[edit] On relaunching the canadian COTW

Things needed for making the CCOTW to actually work:

[edit] A fresh start

We need to start anew, or at least clean off the nominees' list and everything before it died, until we have a high enough number of committed (see below) participants (2 dozens or so) to kick it back off. Past nominations can always be nominated back.

[edit] A list of contributors

We need for committed people (if only for copyedit) to voice their interest and say they actually intend to collaborate in nominating, choosing and editing (if only for copyedit) the Collaboration article. Those interested can list themselves here

[edit] A pruning rule

We need an actual rule for the pruning of articles. I suggest 2 votes after 7 days. solved, see CCOTW's Talk page

[edit] Comments

Comments on relaunching are welcome.

[edit] Bilingualism

I think there's a strong urgency for a Bilingualism in Canada article given the historical, politican and cultural importance of the subject and the fact that the bilingualism article does not and perhaps cannot deal in detail with the Canadian aspects of the concept. AndyL 19:19, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I've just stubbed one in with a basic historical outline. I'd be grateful if people could start filling in the details, and maybe add some links to fair and balanced anti-bilingualism sites to balance the GoC sites I linked to. -- Dpm64 20:16, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Great! We need to go through the articles that link to bilingualism, find the Canadian ones and redirect or install links to the new Bilingualism in Canada article. I've done this with a few but my computer is unbearably slow and I'm giving up doing any more for now. AndyL 21:55, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Elections charts

I’d like to get some consensus on what to do about colours in the elections charts, but I don’t want to get into a revert war, so I’ve asked people for their ideas before any changes are made. Some of the colours that are currently being used are too dark for some monitors so that it is difficult to read the text. The point of adding colours to the charts is to make it easier for readers to derive information from the charts. This goal is foiled by using colours dark enough to obscure the text. The Wikipedia style guide is clear on the issue:

Use colour sparingly. Computers and browsers vary: you cannot know how much colour is presented on the recipient's machine if any. Wikipedia is international: colours have different meaning in different cultures. Too many colours on one page make them look cluttered and unencyclopedic. Use the colour red only for alerts and warnings.

Several people have suggested their ideas. Three specific proposals have been made. I am proposing to have a vote between these proposals and the status quo.

Please vote and/or contribute your comments at Talk:Canadian federal election results since 1867 Thanks. Kevintoronto 15:59, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)

  • Because of a sock puppet attack, I've ended the vote and drawn some conclusions, although they're not entirely conculsive, so further comments would be appreciated. Kevintoronto 15:59, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I have tabulated the results using some of the more common vote counting methods :) - Jord 18:10, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Rob Anders

On this MP's page, Rob Anders, an anonymous user has added back a link to this site http://www.voteoutanders.com/. Prevoiusly, I thought it was not a NPOV link and I removed it. It is now back. Before I remove it again I was just curious what others thought about this. Is this a fair link? Thanks, --YUL89YYZ 14:53, Mar 14, 2005 (UTC)

  • There is also a link from the article to robanders.com, his official website, which is not NPOV either. I think that both external links are relevant to him, and that external links don't have to be NPOV, only the text of the article. All of the political party articles have links to the parties' official websites, which are also inherently NPOV. Kevintoronto 14:58, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • The Vote Out Anders link seems relevant and adds to an otherwise sparse article. The link is obviously POV, but it's not a crazy rant so I don't see anything wrong with it. - NormanEinstein 17:21, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • So long as the article text is NPOV I see no problem with a link with a particular slant. This is seen quite often on articles on any manner of topics. Radagast 17:23, Mar 14, 2005 (UTC)
      • POV links are permitted, but one should make sure the biases of the links are clearly explained to the readers. - SimonP 17:28, Mar 14, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Canadian Quick Links

I just created {{Canadian quick links}}, mostly as a shameless ripping of {{India quick links}}. It looks like this:

Links for Wikipedians interested in Canadian content

Newcomers: Welcome kit | Register: Canadian Wikipedians | Network: Noticeboard (WP:CWNB) | Browse: Canada
Contribute content: Canada Portal - Canadian current events - Canadian collaboration of the week (WP:CCOTW) - Canada stubs
See also: Quebec wikipedians' noticeboard - WikiProject Ottawa - WikiProject Toronto - WikiProject Vancouver - WikiProject Alberta


And I'm not sure what to do with it(!). Suggestions are appreciated.

I've added it to my user page :) - Jord 19:51, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I like it. --Spinboy 20:18, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Census Articles

I was thinking that it would be useful to have a Canada 2001 Census Article. The content of the article would be a summary of some of the important information from that census. One of the most useful aspects would be that wherever any article references the 2001 Census they would link to the article (would have to edit census references). This would make it quite a bit easier to update it when the Canada 2006 Census is done. (IE check what links to 2001 Census page). Would also give some context to references to 2001 census. Simarly would create Canada 1996 Census etc... for comparison purposes -- Webgeer 04:06, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)

  • That would be great, especially if we can get Canadian town-by-town census-reflecting articles (similar to the US ones). Tim Rhymeless (Er...let's shimmy) 04:49, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • I thought of this before as well, as the Americans have a page for their census. It just seems like so much work ;-) Earl Andrew 05:03, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Screw the Americans, let's do it! --Spinboy 05:08, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)
        • What should be included? Earl Andrew 05:23, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)
          • When did they start couting gay couples? --Spinboy 05:36, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)
            • 2001 I believe. (Oddly enough we discussed this in a class of mine today) - Earl Andrew 05:54, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)
              • There we go. It's a start. Maybe include everything from the 2001 census. It's certainly notable. Maybe we should create an article on this. --Spinboy 05:59, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)
              • Perhaps. Who should begin this grand venture? Earl Andrew 06:09, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • OK since it seems like a consensus and the United States 2000 Census exists then I'll give it a start. (note I changed my proposed names to be consistent with the US version) -- Webgeer 06:13, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)
      • Sounds great, have a good time. :-) If you need any help, ask Earl, he's good at these types of things. And beer. He's good at drinking beer too. --Spinboy 06:19, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)
        • What's all this about beer then? - Earl Andrew 06:34, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)
          • Harmless teasing my friend. :-) --Spinboy 07:10, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)
            • Do not drink and wiki ;-) Anyways getting back on topic I think we should model it off of the US article. - Earl Andrew 07:14, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)
              • I couldn't agree more! I also think that Earl Andrew should cut back on the beer. ;-) Spinboy 07:19, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)
                • I started it with only a little help from beer. I'm not sure if I struck the right balance in number of tables. It could defintely be made a little prettier. More demographic information could be included, but I would like to resist having too many tables. After all if you want the gory details you can go to Census Canada pages. If somebody wants to wikify the ethnic origins, all I can say is have fun... -- Webgeer 08:43, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)
                  • What's with all of the unwarranted attacks on beer? Beer is our friend. Beer is our ally. Beer is the one thing we can count on when everything is falling down around us. Besides, I understand that Earl is very amusing when he's had too much beer -- sitting in a corner giggling and muttered about bus routes and what-not. ;-) Kevintoronto 15:52, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)
                    • Some good work webgeer! I was going to help out but the database was locked, and now I have to finish some school work, but I will work on this shortly. And, let the record be known the drinking age of my province is 5 months higher than my current age. :-D - Earl Andrew 08:25, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Have we decided a specific format for Canadian community pages? SD6-Agent 04:00, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)

You mean for Rambot? - Earl Andrew 18:48, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Yeah, I was going to say, I asked Ram-Man if he could get his Rambot going on Canadian community articles. I gave him the link to the relevant information on the StatsCan website, and he basically said he would sleep on it. Maybe we could prod him into getting the task done? You can look at the article on Courtenay, British Columbia as a working model. Denelson83 19:45, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Ottawa also has a good example too. Plus it links to some of the ethnicities. - Earl Andrew 21:19, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Ottawa Wikipedia Meetup

Just a quick note for those Wikipedians who live in Ottawa and the valley that this Saturday @ 2pm there will be a meetup! Come on by the Meetup website and if you can attend, let us know! If not, join up anyway, and that way you'll be informed of future meetups! Thanks! --Spinboy 21:05, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Canadian COTW moving on with Tommy Douglas

The CCOTW for April 2005 is Tommy Douglas. You may already vote for the next collaboration at /CCOTW

[edit] Did anyone listen to CBC Ottawa this afternoon?

I turned on the radio at about three minutes to six this evening and heard the CBC host reading out Wikipedia's URL and inviting listeners to visit the site as though they had just done a story on us. Did anyone manage to hear the story that proceeded this? - SimonP (who's hoping they mentioned our full coverage of Ottawa city councillors)

If you know the name of the show, you may be able to find it on the cbc website perhaps tommorow. -- Earl Andrew - talk 23:59, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)
No one listens to CBC Ottawa. People prefer CFRA. I don't know anyone who listens to CBC. --Spinboy 00:53, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)
LOL my dad does in the mornings, and on his truck radio occaisonally. Some times it's on at dinner time, but rarely. CFRA is garbage anyways. hehehe -- Earl Andrew - talk 01:48, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Yeah, *your* Dad. :p CFRA is pretty bad, especially Late Nite Counsell. --Spinboy 01:57, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Yeah, that show is \/\/4y |\|0+ 1337 -- Earl Andrew - talk 02:15, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)
And Lowell Green is? Bearcat 19:39, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)
At least Lowell Green is somewhat, albit remotely, tolerable. --Spinboy 05:35, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • uhm, who listens to radio anymore? XD LG-犬夜叉 08:05, Mar 31, 2005 (UTC)
Have you tried this [5]? It may be there, if not try emailing the good people at All in a Day. -- Earl Andrew - talk 21:38, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
As a regular CBC listener, I can tell you that the Ottawa afternoon show is hosted by Brent Bambury who also hosts Go (radio). He seems to be quite internet saavy and regularly references websites (usually the noncommercial community type of websites), so it doesn't suprise me that he mentioned wikipedia on his afternoon show. If only I could get internet radio in my car or at work, then I could listen to Ottawa's CBC feed during the day. -- Webgeer 00:48, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Aboriginal Canada

Category:Canadian First Nations currently includes Category:Métis and Category:Inuit as subcategories. This is incorrect - Quoting from the naming guidelines of Canada's Department of Indian and Northern Affairs: "The Canadian Constitution (the Constitution Act, 1982) recognizes three groups of Aboriginal peoples — Indians, Métis and Inuit."[6] This is also evident by the political organization of Canadian aboriginals. The Assembly of First Nations for the First Nations, the Métis National Council for the Métis, and the Inuit Tapiriit Kanatami for the Inuit. So, a new, higher-level category is needed to encompass the Canadian First Nations, Métis, Inuit, and other categories that deal with all three groups.

I'm unsure of what would be the best name for this new category. Possibilities include "Aboriginal Canada", "Aboriginal Canadians", "Canadian Aboriginals", "Aboriginal peoples in Canada", "Canadian First Peoples", etc, etc. I advise first that we use "aboriginal" because it is used more commonly by the government than "First Peoples" [7]. I think the choice that is most concise yet still says everything required would be Category:Aboriginal Canada. Comments? Kurieeto 17:43, Mar 31, 2005 (UTC)

I'd go with "Aboriginal peoples in Canada" because it is the clearest. "Aboriginal Canada" makes me think that we're talking about Canada before the arrival of the melanin-impoverished folk. Clearly, this category includes articles about the post-invasion history and situation of the Aboriginal peoples as well. Kevintoronto 18:20, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I second "Aboriginal peoples in Canada". -GrantNeufeld 20:56, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Keep it as is. It's what First Nations people call themselves, regardless of what it says in the constitution. Names change over time, and this is a prime example. The term aboriginal is offensive to many. -- Earl Andrew - talk 21:36, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I must disagree. Any term will be offensive to some number of people, but I do believe that the term "aboriginal" would be the least offensive choice. When the First Nations, Métis, and Inuit need a term to describe all three of them they have chosen the term aboriginal. An example of this is the National Aboriginal Achievement Foundation, and one of their most known programs, the National Aboriginal Achievement Awards. Another example would be the Aboriginal Peoples Television Network. Further attempts are also being made by the government to use this term, as evident by the wording of National Aboriginal Day. The word is the chosen term used by these people to refer to themselves as a whole. Kurieeto 23:18, Mar 31, 2005 (UTC)
Actually, First Nations is a term that describes all three groups, not just one of them. Believe me, the term aboriginal is highly offensive to many First Nations people- and that is what they're calling themselves now. -- Earl Andrew - talk 05:59, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I believe you're mistaken, Earl. First Nations is used virtually exclusively to refer to peoples that might have been termed "Indians" a few decades ago (be they status Indians or not). My understanding Metis and Inuit are excluded from First Nations, but fall under the Aboriginal umbrella.
According to the inappropriately named “Ministry of Indian and Northern Affairs,” the “Metis” and “Inuit” are indeed excluded from First Nations (also called “Indian”), but all three fall under the Aboriginal peoples umbrella. At least from what I can tell from their confusing website that Kurieeto kindly alerted me to here. Paradiso 10:36, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I should throw "indigenous peoples" and "native peoples" out there for consideration... Samaritan 14:20, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Okay, I bit the bullet and put together Category:Aboriginal peoples of Canada and did some re-sorting. I'm certainly open to further changes, but this seems to reflect correct useage. -The Tom 00:55, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I would have preferred more time for debate, but very well. Unfortunately the newly created Category:Aboriginal peoples of Canada is worded incorrectly. I suggested "Aboriginal peoples in Canada" for a specific reason, to avoid as the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs puts it, "describing Aboriginal people as "belonging" to Canada"[8]. This is why the subcategories formerly in Category:Canadian First Nations that collected aboriginal peoples were titled for example "Aboriginal peoples in British Columbia", etc. The newly created category will need to be deleted or renamed. Kurieeto 06:12, Apr 3, 2005 (UTC)
Interesting. I wouldn't personally consider "of" to imply posession in this case, but if DIAND seems to think so, then I gracefully back out. I had simply named it so it was in keeping with general Wikipedian construction and the title of First Nations of Canada—might this mean that its title (and slso Category:Canadian First Nations) run afoul of useage guidelines as well? -The Tom 18:27, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for noting the other cases that may imply belonging. I would argue they do, and we may as well correct them now when we're changing other things at the same time. Also if you could please file a request to move Category:Aboriginal peoples of Canada to Category:Aboriginal peoples in Canada it would be appreciated. I don't recall the exact name of the page where this is done.
As for the First Nations matter, we again have some options. I'd advise all interested to read the page regarding that term on the DIAND site[9]. Here's an excerpt: "Although the term First Nation is widely used, no legal definition of it exists. Among its uses, the term "First Nations peoples" refers to the Indian peoples in Canada, both Status and Non-Status". Some naming options that spring to mind are "First Nations peoples in Canada", "First Nations", "First Nations in Canada", etc. I believe the first suggestion is best as it continues with the "_ peoples in _" naming conventions being implemented. Whatever change we decide on, if any, for the First Nations category can be applied to the main article. Comments? Kurieeto 13:05, Apr 4, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] New Wikiproject

Hi everyone! Earl Andrew and I have started the WikiProject Ottawa! We'd appreciate it if you stop by and give us a hand! Thanks! --Spinboy 23:48, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Luba

Luba is already a disambiguation page for several other meanings. Should a future article on the Cancon musician be at Luba (singer) or Luba Kowalchyk? (Encyclopedia of Music in Canada: Luba; Jam! Music Encyclopedia: Luba) Samaritan 14:48, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

  • Luba (singer), because she goes by 'Luba.' (I guess 'Kowalchyk' isn't a very rock 'n roll name!) Paradiso 05:26, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
    • I would put it under Luba Kowalchyk. -- JamesTeterenko 04:05, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)
  • I would put it under Luba (singer) with a redirect from Luba Kowalchyk. --Spinboy 22:35, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Canadian Atlases

Some useful resources:

-GrantNeufeld 03:23, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Canadian legislators

Hi, I'm trying to organize Category:Legislators. I'm trying to arrange it so that each country gets one entry for its national legislators (e.g. U.S. senators and U.S. House members are put into Category:Members of the U.S. Congress, which is then put into the legislators category). I was going to do this for Canada as well, but hit a roadblock. I read through Parliament of Canada, and couldn't find the word for "Senators and MPs". What category should they go into? Should I just use "Category:Canadian national legislators" or is there a preferred term? Meelar (talk) 01:49, Apr 14, 2005 (UTC)

I have no idea, but maybe Parliamentarians is the term we want? Maybe you could just add the two categories into Category:Legislators directly.

—UTSRelativity 02:24, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I'm trying to avoid that--eventually, it will have at least as many subcategories as there are democracies, plus a few more for historical legislators. If no other suggestions, I'll use parliamentarians. Meelar (talk) 02:53, Apr 14, 2005 (UTC)

Parliamentarian is the correct term for both the House of Commons and Senate. That is why there is a Parliament of Canada web site which includes both. You should say Category:Canadian Parliamentarians. --YUL89YYZ 17:01, Apr 14, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks very much, everyone, for the help. Meelar (talk) 18:00, Apr 14, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] CBC article submitted for peer review

I'd like to see some Web sources for most of the information in the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation article, such as CBC television's border zone audience in the States. Denelson83 08:34, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV dispute

Is the NPOV tag on the "Criticism" section of International Socialists (Canada) valid?70.49.88.25 22:26, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Timezones

Hello all, I got the following message the other day on my talk page, and was wonder if anyone can help, as the answers I do not know for sure.

Earl, since you're a Canadian, and you're interested in time zones, I'm hoping you can help me clear :up some of the misinformation in the time zone articles. My big question is: who named the Canadian :time zones? This is of particular interest because three Canadian zones have the same name as their :U.S. equivalent. So it would be useful to know whether Canada has an agreement with the U.S. about :this, or just chose the same names to avoid confusion.
I'd also like to know who draws the boundaries. In the U.S., Congress draws them, and everybody has to :go along. I gather things are more granular in Canada, but I'd like to get specifics.
---Isaac R 08:00, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

-- Earl Andrew - talk 20:22, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

There are actually four zone names shared by the two countries: PST, MST, CST, and EST. It was the railways that first started using these names in the 1880s, and the Canadian railways did copy the names from the American railways. Legal time in Canada is under provincial and territorial jurisdiction: it is these governments that decide zone boundaries, whether or not to use DST, and when standard changes to DST and back. All provinces and territories that use DST have copied the U.S. Congress's DST rules (1st Sun. Apr, last Sun. Oct., 02:00), presumably for the convenience of commerce and entertainment (TV schedules). Indefatigable 23:50, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)
The Canadian railroads probably participated in naming the time zones. The Time zone article lists the establishment of five time zones in North America in 1883, the easternmost zone known as "Intercolonial" time, an obvious reference to the Intercolonial Railway of Canada from Quebec to the Maritimes. User:Luigizanasi 04:31, 25 April 2005 (UTC)

[edit] When you're writing about the future always remember that Wikipedia never forgets

I was just looking at the first version of the 39th Canadian federal election article and chiding myself for some of the speculation I included that tuned out to be utterly wrong. Then I looked at the first version of Canadian federal election, 2004 and wow were we ever wrong. Arguably both reflected the expert opinion at the time, but they are also both very good examples of why Wikipedia is not a crystal ball.- SimonP 05:18, May 16, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Bill C-38

On the talk page for this article, I argue about the title of the article and think it should be moved. I just wanted some consensus from some fellow Canadians before I make a page move on an article as important as this. - Lucky13pjn 02:59, May 24, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] New Socialist Group

There's been repeated vandalism of this article by two anon IPs (though possibly the same user) who consistently unwiki every link in the article and add unsourced personal criticism; one of them has explicitly stated on the talk page that they like Wikipedia's usefulness as an axe-grinding tool. I'm on my second revert now; could y'all please keep an eye on it as well? Tanx much. Bearcat 22:56, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

You know, the 3 revert rule does not apply to vandalism. - Lucky13pjn 01:05, May 28, 2005 (UTC)
Ah, okay. Still wouldn't hurt to have as many people keeping an eye on it as possible, though. Bearcat 01:12, 28 May 2005 (UTC)
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