Talk:C. B. Fry

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Contents 1 Long jump record? 2 'Related to Stephen Fry' 3 Albanian crown offer? 4 66 runs 5 Relationship to Stephen Fry 6 Magazine? 7 Training ship Mercury 8 Info Box 9 Neville Cardus 10 Polymath

[edit] Long jump record?

I am new to Wiki, so don't want to attempt editing. CB Fry's 21 year long jump record is a myth. He only equalled the existing record, and that stood for just 18 months.

S.

• Bah, this is what you get for believing Wisden. I looked up some numbers - it says Fry jumped 23 feet 5 inches in an Oxford-Cambridge match in 1892. That's 7.14 metres. In 1901, Peter O'Connor jumped 7.61 metres. So, definitely didn't last 21 years. I shall amend the page. Average Earthman 11:13, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Corrected - Fry's 23'5" was the varsity record, his world record was 23'6.5" (according to the Oxford University Athletics website). Still well beaten by O'Connor. Average Earthman 11:28, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The progression of WR was thus :

   7.09    Alfred Copland  USA     Washington      Oct 11, 1890
        7.17    Charles Reber   USA     Detroit         Jul 04, 1891
        7.17*   Charles Fry     GBR     Oxford  Mar 05, 1893
        7.21    John Mooney     IRL     Mitchelstown    Sep 05, 1894
        7.235   Meyer Prinstein         USA     New York        Jun 11, 1898
        7.25    William Newburn         IRL     Dublin  Jun 18, 1898
        7.33    William Newburn         IRL     Dublin  Jul 16, 1898
        7.48?   William Newburn         IRL     Mullingate      Jul 19, 1898
        7.40    Alvin Kraenzlein        USA     Philadelphia    Apr 29, 1899
        7.42    Alvin Kraenzlein        USA     New York        May 26, 1899
        7.43    Alvin Kraenzlein        USA     New York        May 26, 1899
        7.50    Meyer Prinstein         USA     Philadelphia    Apr 28, 1900
        7.51    Peter O'Connor  IRL     New Ross        Aug 29, 1900
        7.54    Peter O'Connor  IRL     Dublin  May 27, 1901
        7.60    Peter O'Connor  IRL     Dublin  Jul 15, 1901
        7.605   Peter O'Connor  IRL     Dublin  Jul 28, 1901
        7.61    Peter O'Connor  GBR     Dublin  Aug 05, 1901

The source is http://trackfield.brinkster.net/RecProg_All.asp?RecCode=WR&EventCode=MF3&Gender=M , but you may have register to access it. O'Connor's was the first official record.

An argument usually raised in favour of Fry is that the English and American system of measurement were different. Americans at the time used to measure the length of the jump for the point where the foot last landed, while English measured it from the take off line. But the 21 years, as you have mentioned, is undoubtedly the University record. This is recorded here : http://www.achilles.org/varsitymatch/menfield/vm18.htm

S.

• • I spotted that was the varsity record - I think I looked at the same link you did. That's now noted in the article, and I'll add that his shared record was broken by Mooney. Average Earthman 09:36, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] 'Related to Stephen Fry'

OK, CB Fry and Stephen Fry (the 1920's Hampshire cricketer) are related (CB was Stephen's father), but how are CB Fry and Stephen Fry the comedian related? Average Earthman 09:29, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)

You've beaten me to it. I was wondering the same thing, jguk 10:12, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)

And Stephen (1920s Hampshire) was father of Charles Fry, MCC president[1].

C.B. was Stephen Fry (the actor)'s great uncle (or similar) - I can't remember the details, but it was mentioned on QI so it must be true :) I'm having trouble finding another reference, though. -- ALoan (Talk) 11:22, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)

For the time being, I've moved the statement "He is related to Stephen Fry" from the article. I'd be happy to have it re-added if we had a more reliable source than a comedy panel game:) and if it is true, we really should add what the relationship is - and also add it to the Stephen Fry article:) jguk 22:47, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)

"more reliable source than a comedy panel game"...??? The source on said panel game was Stephen Fry himself (what more proof do you want?!), and it was broadcast on national British television. It has since been repeated twice. Howie 23:45, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Albanian crown offer?

"It is often stated..." sounds pretty uncertain; anyone got some firm evidence either way? Loganberry (Talk) 16:17, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

Neville Cardus in Fry's Wisden obit quotes CBF's autobiography :

In his absorbing autobiography, Life Worth Living, published in 1939, Fry told of how he very nearly became the King of Albania. His association with Ranjitsinhji led him to occupy the position of substitute delegate for India at the Assemblies of the League of Nations at Geneva, where he composed a speech delivered by Ranji which turned Mussolini out of Corfu.

The Albanians sent a delegation and appointed a Bishop, who bore a striking resemblance to W. G. Grace, to find an English country gentlemen with £10,000 a year for their King. Fry had the first qualification but not the second; but Ranji certainly could have provided the money. "If I had really pressed Ranji to promote me," said Fry, "it is quite on the cards that I should have been King of Albania yesterday, if not today."

Source

Both Cardus and Fry are known to pass off a lot of fiction as fact, though ;-)

The first comment in this talk page (about Fry's record) was my first edit in wiki :) Tintin 16:51, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] 66 runs

I've read that C.B. Fry one hit a ball into a tree and scored 66 runs before the ball was fielded. User:Nichalp/sg 19:01, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Mmmmm, now, if you only had a reference for that, Nicholas:) jguk 20:01, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Too bad I don't. It was on a small DYK card that used to come with some chocolates years back. (early 90s) User:Nichalp/sg 13:40, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Relationship to Stephen Fry

I am removing the following paragraph, which appears to be subject to a revert war at present:

Comedian and writer Stephen Fry is related to him, as revealed on the television panel game QI. It was also revealed (to much amusement) that, as a party piece, C.B. Fry was able to jump backwards onto a mantlepiece from a standing position.

The reason I am removing it is that a comedy quiz show is not a suitable source. I saw the edition of QI in question too - and whilst Stephen Fry does say that, it is not clear whether he is saying it as a fact, or whether he is just saying it because they share a surname. Nor does he mention the relationship. Not only that Wikipedia:Verifiability makes it clear that we should rely on published, reputable sources. A comedy quiz programme doesn't fit into that. Please do not re-insert the information without a published source - and I'd expect such a source to describe the relationship too, jguk 19:33, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

No advance on their relationship (my recollection is that Stephen does indeed claim CB as a relative, and not as a joke) but here is a source (Cricinfo, no less) for the mantlepiece claim, which should be stetted. It is mentioned in this one (referring to a Manchester newspaper).-- ALoan (Talk) 21:23, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

I've just seen a programme on the BBC where Stephen Fry traced his ancesters back to his great, great grandparents. No mention of CB Fry, sadly. here for some info. Hardly definative, but there we go! Gavinio 23:16, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Certainly not definitive - the TV programme traced his maternal roots. If he is indeed a relative of CB Fry, it would be an extraordinary coincidence if it wasn't through his paternal line! Dweller 09:13, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Magazine?

Didn't Fry also create a (then) famous magazine for boys? Anyone remember? Dweller 09:26, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Training ship Mercury

I seem to recall that late in life, Fry is quoted as saying that what he achieved on the Mercury was his greatest achievement in life. Anyone got a source? Would be a nice addition to the article. Dweller 09:26, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Info Box

Shouldn't there be data for some of the other sports, as well as cricket? Dweller 09:28, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Neville Cardus

I have books by Cardus in which he talks about Fry and I will try to embody some of that into this article. Anyone else have any similar thoughts? --AlbertMW 06:35, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Please go ahead. Since you are new here, it may help to take a look around the other cricket articles to get an idea about what the existing ones are like. Tintin (talk) 06:44, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Polymath

I removed the description of Fry being a polymath because there is nothing at all in the article that would even begin to make such a description plausible. If someone wants to put it back, please give your reasons. Hi There 13:58, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

It's back. See Polymath and its talk page. This article demonstrates he was a polymath beyond any debate. --Dweller 10:37, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

It hardly makes him a polymath beyond any debate, does it? It was a throw-away comment by a journalist writing about something else entirely. Having said that, I can see the reasons for having it in. He's probably close to being a polymath - but I'd say his skills were less academic than most polymaths. --Gavinio 15:20, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

I removed it. Your reference is laughable. Some sportswriter making a bald reference to Fry as a "polymath" is not authoritative in any way at all. If you would like to take the time and trouble to write the article so that the reasons for considering him a polymath are included in the article itself, a discussion might be possible.Hi There 17:49, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

What nonsense. Any fool can see that Fry excelled in what is, by any definition, a variety of careers. Conrary to wikipedia's definition (which I still think he comes under), the OED defines a polymath as "a person of wide-ranging knowledge or learning". He certainly fits that. Superseve 13:15, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I strongly disagree with this. Think about the definition of polymath and try and use a synonym in place of the word Polymath. Greek definition is "many" & "knowing", I stress knowing. You can not substitute the phrase "renaisance man" in Fry's case. If you do you open the case for other (argueably much better) sports greats such as Michael Jordan (basket ball & baseball), Ben Graham (Australian football & American football), Shaun White (Snowboarding & Skateboarding) and Bo Jackson & Deion Sanders (both American Football & Baseball). Now I have not even begun to consider triathletes, pentathletes and decathletes. I am for removal as I feel this will open a flood gate of poor choices for a title that should be hard earned.--198.240.130.75 14:18, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

My reading of the article is not that he was a polymath simply because he was good at a variety of sports. He was also a politician (not a party politician) who was once offered the crown of Albania, he rubbed shoulders with statesmen, and was deeply concerned about the education of youth. Of course he knew a lot. Your idiosyncratic argument that Fry wasn't a polymath because you think Michael Jordan is a "better" sports great completely misses the point. --RobertG ♬ talk 14:57, 12 October 2006 (UTC)