Talk:Buttrock

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This article was nominated for deletion on June 1 2006. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

• Do Not Delete Likeminded people and I will expand this article and make it a proud NPOV wiki aticle. Their are multiple meanings of the word Buttrock is the best way I can explain it. I started the page and people are adding to it like it means Hair Metal but it doesn't. - June 4, 2006 - User:Peregrinefisher

• Do Not Delete I grew up in the Pacific Northwest (Portland) and Buttrock is an important word/concept for people here. I imagine it served a similar purpose in the rest of the US. When reminiscing about the 80's we would affenctionately call the soft metal songs that we like Buttrock. It's not just a local custom or a dictionary definition. The concept needs to be explored and the Buttrocker bands need to be delineated. These are the bands that at first glance are extremely cheesy but after a more thorough investigation are true pioneers of pop music. You know: Poison, Warrant (to a lesser degree), and AC/DC. - June 4, 2006 - User:Peregrinefisher

Contents 1 Term seems widely used 2 New Wave and Thrash vs. Poison and Cinderella 3 First heard term in early 1990s (I was born in 1972) 4 External links 5 Add references

[edit] Term seems widely used

As far as I've known, Butt Rock (which is different from Cock Rock) is a deragatory term for Nu Metal, primarily those bands whose sound or production can be traced back to Korn, branching into two distinct sounds: those often with a forced attempt for the vocalist to emulate Eddie V. of Pearl Jam, or those who have attempted to incorporate "rap-core" into their sound. Notable Butt Rock bands being Korn, Staind, Linkin Park, Evanescence, Saliva, Limp Bizkit, Drowning Pool, Creed, etc.

From the name I expected this to be a strong deletion candidate. But it's certainly not nonsense, and the term appears to be in wide use, with 134,000 Google hits (versus, say 876 for assrock. Given that, do people still think it should be deleted? Thanks, --William Pietri 16:16, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

it may be a valid term, that doesn't mean that it requires a WP article by itself. Any a merge to cock rock is a possible solution. Another approach is to go through AFD Spearhead 16:54, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

It sounds like we agree that it's not nonsense, so I'm removing that from the list of reasons. I'm too ignorant of the domain to say beyond that, so I'm asking on Talk:Rock_and_roll for help. --William Pietri 18:36, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New Wave and Thrash vs. Poison and Cinderella

I only know buttrock as being music like Poison and Cinderella but I would like to know more about the difference between uses. Maybe it changed over time? Peregrinefisher 05:41, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

It is only used as a derogatory term for some glam metal bands, I have never seen it used in reference to Thrash. This article needs redirecting. - Deathrocker 09:44, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] First heard term in early 1990s (I was born in 1972)

The way I first understood the term was as the genre of plodding, hard boogie-rock typified by bands like Bad Company, Thin Lizzy, Grand Funk Railroad, Bachman Turner Overdrive, Foghat and the like. It was the rock aimed at teens and working class people after the attitudes of 1960s filtered down from the campuses and affluent suburbs to the factories and trailer parks. In my initial understanding, it actually faded with the 1980s, when even hard rock records became polished productions by bands who didn't represent rebellion against anything more than school teachers and parental authority. Butt Rock to me was the rock of the 'Dazed and Confused' generation--a term coined to characterize music not hard enough to be considered first-wave heavy metal, not pop enough to be considered top-40 pop, and not quite good enough (at least in the eyes of music critics) to be considered classic rock on par with the Who, the Stones, and other "classic" bands.

The term is evidently flexible, like the descriptor "Old School"--One person's 'Old School' (rap music) is A Tribe Called Quest, and another's is Fab Five Freddy. The folks I've heard use it (all born from 1965-1975) all had this 1970s-centric definition. But we may be in the minority on this one at this point. It's still hard to draw lines around Butt rock. It can overlap with Construction Rock (Loverboy, Boston, Bon Jovi), or straight-up Classic Rock (ZZ Top, or the Stones' "Brown Sugar"), or Southern Rock (Lynyrd Skynyrd) or Hair Metal.

Butt Rock, in the end, is probably less a genre than a put down of whatever medium-hard rock you don't like recorded after 1970.

I've usually heard the term applied to Sammy Hagar's music, and Charles R. Cross, in his book Heavier Than Heaven uses the term to describe Hagar as well. Boston and Foreigner would probably also fit into this category. I'm not sure who else would ; assuredly the Stones, ZZ Top, or Lynyrd Skynyrd wouldn't.

the Cross ref wasn't really a ref. But if it can be added using proper Harvard format or an online direct quote then it should be added back in. Anger22 22:08, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] External links

Can we be on the lookout for some external links that don't go to messageboards, mySpace and the like? i see plenty of examples of usage when googling but so far no citeable Articles regarding the Buttrock phenomena. Artw 17:41, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Add references

Whilst this article manages to hold a NPOV rather nicely, the absense of references is a real problem. WP:VERIFY is not an optional policy, and content that is not referenced can be simply removed. What is needed is:

1. Prune out from the AfD and talk pages any non-journalistic references. The amazon link above is to a private person's list, for example, and hence should not be used. Likewise blogs and forum posts need to be avoided.
2. Add references for the term. Once the pruning has been done, this will be super easy, to be honest.
3. Optional expand the description of the term to detail it's history (as can be supported by references), common usage, implications, etc. There's no reason this can't be a nice meaty article if information can be appropriately sourced.
4. Most importantly You need references for all the bands listed to cite them is being of this genre type. As this genre could be seen as derogatory and we are dealing with bands featuring living people, this is absolutely vital.

I may be along at some point in the future to help out with this, but I've a number of other projects on the go so it could be a while. Let's see if we can prevent this getting AfD again, shall we? LinaMishima 17:46, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Frankly, I find CoupleBeersNoBeers's definition (as well as my own more diplomatic phrasing from yesterday) FAR superior to Anger22's as Angel22's is an obsolete definition: 80s hair metal is now beloved classic rock, while today's buttrock (Hinder, Nickelback, Staind, etc) just plain stinks.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.126.228.94 (talk • contribs).(or)—The preceding unsigned comment was added by CoupleBeersNoBeers (talk • contribs).

Whether you are using temporary sockpuppet usernames or editing as an IP...definitions don't change. And Wikipedia isn't based on personal POV, which by your repeated edits/posts, is a completely biased skew to an already poor article. Personally, I think the article is a good candidate for an AfD. There may be a new derogatory term for modern "post-grunge" bands...but it isn't this one. Anger22 (Talk 2 22) 19:20, 28 November 2006 (UTC)