User talk:Bunzil

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[edit] l33t

Wikipedia is not suited to complex infoboxes. It is suited to prose, because the database structure is so simple. Don't do something because you think it's l33t. — Dunc|☺ 13:56, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

The database structure is what is contained within the database. For example, if you go to imdb, for each person they will have a separate entry for their name, birthname, date of birth, and so on. A wiki is not like that. It only has a single text entry for each person, which must contain all of the data. The best way to present data in that way is as prose.

It is best that articles appear uniform across the whole encyclopedia.

That means keeping all the formatting simple.

Now, despite having removed the silliest things from your infobox you are still carrying too much information in it. And I really don't think you've thought this through. People won't get at you because they come across as grumpy, but it really does look terrible. You are trying to do because you think it is "l33t", but programming wise it is nothing new and the novelty for you will soon wear off. — Dunc|☺ 15:18, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Do you actually understand any of this?
Do you really intend to list in a side box, all of a person's grad students? — Dunc|☺ 12:47, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi Dunc, discussion on l33t (that I called 'geekiness') and how one might fix it is at [1]. Please check it out. Regarding the students the short answer is "no" and the methodology/intention discussion is in the 8th from bottom paragraph of [2]. I didn't understand the bit about datastructures, so put some questions about that point on your talk page at [3]. Best regards, bunix 13:26, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image:Alfred kleiner.jpg

Could you confirm that the above image is granted to anybody to use given attribution, not just Wikipedia? Thanks. theProject 19:43, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

There's nothing about the tag that needs to be changed. The only issue is that there are reusers of Wikipedia content that would presumably copy the same image, and if permission is not granted for them to use the image as well, then Wikipedia cannot use the image. I would be very grateful if you could check up on whether the image is granted to anybody to use given attribution, not just Wikipedia. Much thanks! theProject 05:33, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
Reusers of Wikipedia content don't have to be "approved" by us, although we generally become aware of them at some point. The GFDL states that anybody can reuse our material, so long as they include a copy of the GFDL and other things required by the license. Some of the reusers are different from us in that they're commercial reusers of the content and are actively involved in producing revenue from the content. There's a very partial list at Category:Websites which use Wikipedia which should give you an idea. theProject 15:45, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

OK, I contacted ETH and got a reply saying they were aware of the Wikipedia rules when they granted permission. However, now that I have raised the matter they are going to have a meeting on this Thursday to check that all the key parties at ETH are happy with it, in order to "double check." I'll report back here at the end of the week. bunix 22:05, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

OK, they got back to me and everything is cool. They are totally happy with us & the reusers using the photo. They were going to charge me 200 Swiss Francs but they let me off the hook when they realised that Wikipedia is non-profit. So we got a freebie folks! bunix 09:55, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
That's fantastic! Great to hear we have another image for use in our inventory. theProject 18:44, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nobel medal

Hi, I noticed that User:Ancheta Wis is adding the image of the Nobel medal to Nobel laureats pages and he directed me to you for questions regarding the template. AFAIK, the Nobel Foundation keeps a tight copyright on everything Nobel related, especially the design of medals and diplomas. They state that permission must be asked to use the image of these things and when granted, the permission is for a single use. My concern is that it might not be fair use to put it like that in all articles, though I'm not a lawyer. Question is, are you sure that it is OK, as this might be a pretty serious problem for WP?

PS: You can answer here, I'm watching your talk page AdamSmithee 08:35, 12 August 2006 (UTC)


Hi Adam, Good point. OK, I've just emailed the Nobel Foundation and we should get a reply in a day or two. Keep watching this space :-) Best regards, bunix 06:59, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

They are taking their time...so in the meanwhile I've replaced it with a "home made" Nobel medal, that doesn't look as good as the real one, but will probably do for the time being.bunix 21:58, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm really curious what they will say... Hope they'll have good news AdamSmithee 07:07, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi — not to butt in here, but Wikipedia doesn't use things which only have permission for use on Wikipedia. They'd have to grant permission for all re-users to use it like this as well. This has been policy for awhile due to an order from the top. Just pointing that out in case you haven't seen it. --Fastfission 13:52, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Bunzil, nice solution. Is everyone amenable to us inserting the template again? I know that Max Born, for one was altered to rm the template.
Jiang, maybe this image will work. Such an image livens up an article which currently has prose only, which is the case for many of the Nobel laureate articles. --Ancheta Wis 17:12, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image tagging for Image:Fleiss.jpg

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[edit] Nobel template

I believe the addition of the copyrighted Nobel medal image to individual articles is a violation of copyright. Please see my comments at User_talk:Ancheta_Wis#Nobel_medal. You may respond to those comments here.--Jiang 10:56, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi Jiang, Looking into this. See comments to Adam (above). Watch that space in a couple of days for the answer. Best regards, bunix 07:03, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Zeeman

Hi JdH, accoding to "The Biographical Dictionary of Scientists" publ: Oxford, Ed: Roy Porter, Zeeman's PhD was jointly supervised by both Kamerlingh Onnes and Lorentz. If you disagree, please let me know your sources. Best regards, bunix 01:50, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

According to the Dutch biography (P.F.A. Klinkenberg, Zeeman, Pieter (1865-1943), in Biografisch Woordenboek van Nederland) Zeeman took courses from Lorentz, but Kamerlingh Onnes was his sole thesis supervisor. JdH 13:10, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Database structure

Okay, I'll try to explain database structure.

Wikipedia's information is carried in a database. Each Wikipedia entry basically has two fields. The first is the article's title, the second is the text in the article. This is extremely basic, in fact it's about as basic as you can get. (The categorisation system makes it slightly more complex, but categories are a side structure rather than the main structure). Wikipedia has one field that is best used for storing prose like an essay.

Compare now imdb. Take as an example, Keira Knightley if you click on the update button at the bottom you get taken to an update page. Now you see that all possible details imaginable have their own entry, their own field. This is a proper database and it is ideal for storing specific information. Her date of birth, place and so on all have separate entries in their own field. This is proper database design. Wikipedia it not a proper database.

Wikipedia is not like this, because it is so simple you need to apply the KISS principle. That means if you're going to use infoboxes, you need to think them through properly, which I don't think you've done. — Dunc|☺ 13:42, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Hey look I can't be bothered arguing with you, even though you are making a huge mess of everything. Infoboxes look horrible, they serve absolutely no purpose, and you seem utterly clueless about how databases work, why formatting needs to be simple, and what you might include in an infobox, but it seems that no-one including myself is really that bothered to have a fight about it. — Dunc|☺ 13:03, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Circumcision

The question is the exact opposite; do you have an sources that support your contention regarding Kellog? If so, I'd love to see them. Jayjg (talk) 15:51, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I can't believe nobody did this, yet; welcome!

Welcome!


Hello, Bunzil, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. If you are stuck or looking for help, please come to the Wikipedia Help Desk, where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Or, you can just type {{helpme}} on your user talk page, and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions.

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Luna Santin 10:40, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

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[edit] Copyright violation for Hermann Haus

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia! We appreciate your contributions to the Hermann Haus article, but we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material. Perhaps you would like to rewrite the article in your own words. For more information, take a look at Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Happy editing! —Steven G. Johnson 21:34, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nobel again

Please do not add the image of the nobel prize to prize winners pages, it is not a fair use.--Peta 02:54, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Also do not cut and paste text from copyrighted sources into wikipedia.--Peta 03:00, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
One more thing, you cannot licence other peoples work, do not add creative commons licences to images that you have downloaded from the web and uploaded to wikipedia.--Peta 03:02, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Unfree images on Wikipedia must meet criteria for use, see WP:FUC, adding the nobel medal to a page on the medal would be a fair use, adding it to every article on laureates is not a fair use as it adds noting significant to the article.--Peta 08:40, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

On the Creative commons tags, you cannot apply copyright to images that are copyrighted. Just tag them as fair use.--Peta 06:44, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Let's move on

Please check this, in case I've accidentally overwritten something. I hope not, but if so, I apologise. I've put in *, which I hope is OK. Tyrenius 00:34, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Misinformation infobxes

[4]

[edit] Image:Hermann haus.jpg

This image is now listed as an orphaned fair use image, as the page it was on has been deleted as a copyright violation. If it is not used in an article within a week, it will be deleted from Wikipedia's servers. If you would like to write a new Hermann Haus article, feel free to do so, but please make sure it is original material. Thanks, --RobthTalk 04:09, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Help Needed

Dag JdH, I've been toying with the idea that we should start an article on Geertruida de Haas Lorentz who is notable as one of the first female Dutch physicists and also the daughter of Lorentz and wife of de Haas. I am having great difficulty trying to find information about her and particularly a photograph of her. I am thinking you are the perfect person to ask where to find a photo of her, as your Dutch references seem to be superior to mine....any ideas? Can you help collaborate on such an article? Best regards, bunix 10:20, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

The online sources I usually look at are Biografisch Woordenboek van Nederland, History of science and scholarship in the Netherlands, and the National Library of the Netherlands. Unfortunately, I do not find anything on Geertruida de Haas-Lorentz in any of these sources. Most likely it would require a visit to the archives.
You may try to contact a librarian at the National Library. The other possibility is National Museum of the History of Science and Medicine; they have the papers of all prominent Dutch scientsist in their archives. But to be honest, I think that it would require a personal visit to the archives, and go through the papers yourself. Good luck with it anyway, JdH 23:15, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Beste JdH, dank u. I will check those sources. It will probably take me a long time to find this stuff ...but I may start an article soon just with the tiny snippets of info that I do have. Then hopefully there are other Dutch editors out there who can weigh in and add bits also. Who knows, with any luck one of them may even have a photo :-) Een goede dag verder. Best regards, bunix 05:22, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Beste JdH, OK, I went ahead and created a stub based on what little info I have. Hopefully that should get it going. Check it out at: [5] ...let me know what you think. Also if you know any other Dutch editors who might be able to help expand it, please point it out. Hey, also the stub on Wander de Hass needs to be badly expanded ...have you seen that one? Best regards, bunix 06:39, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
It just occurs to me that there may be shortcut to get more information, and that is to ask the web master of the website of Instituut-Lorentz for theoretical physics. He is clearly interested in the history. The website sports a page on Wander de Haas, with a reference to a book by Casimir. Perhaps that book has more info on Geertruida as well; it may be worthwhile to check that out. JdH 09:55, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Template Infobox scientist

Thanks for your inquiry. Generally whenever I close a debate as no consensous, I lean it over to keep, as is the pratice with most admins. I close no fewer than 10-20 TfD's a day when needed, so I often do not look further into them, just close them accordingly and move on. I am not going to touch that particular template though, and instead can trust that you guys can work out whatever the problem is with it, and come to a solution. Anyone involved is welcome to relist at TfD if there is a disagreement with the current outcome. // Pilotguy (Have your say) 18:28, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

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[edit] German academy of sciences

Please note that the German Academy of Sciences Berlin was founded in 1946. This is not the same academy that Euler worked in. Borisblue 15:03, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Infobox Scientist replacement/reengineering

Hi Bunix. I saw in the Infobox Scientist talk page that you said you were going through the pages it is currently on and making them conform to the concensus. But you could use help. If you give me a chunk of names to work on (all the Ps or something) I can work on that too. --Siobhan Hansa 20:52, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image tagging for Image:Penrose3.jpg

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[edit] Orphaned fair use image (Image:180px-Charles Glover Barkla.jpg)

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[edit] Erdos Number CfD

Thanks for the heads up. Cheers LW77 23:28, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Duncharris

I do not really know. But I think there was an upsurge of vandalism on his user page prior to his leaving. Very sad. I just hope someone on the social software area is following up such incidents for improving the system. Shyamal 01:33, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

I removed the comment you left on Duncharris's talk page because it was not quite friendly enough to put on the page of a departed Wikipedian. Please feel free to leave another message just a bit friendlier. --FloNight 01:46, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Infobox Fields

Thank you for casting your vote on the Einstein infobox. Please now go to [6] to give your opinion on how you want the individual fields modified. SuperGirl 08:12, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Infobox scientists - comments

Hi there. I recently read the TfD debate here, and then felt moved to leave comments here. As you were one of the most vociferous defenders of the template, I thought you might be interested in my thoughts. I hope you can see my point about how an infobox designed to try and fit all scientists can miss the point when it is forced on someone it is not designed for. And if people read the infobox first, I believe they can genuinely be offered a misleading mix of basic and irrelevant data that should properly be introduced at the right point, rather than lumped together. I am now going to pop over to Einstein and see if that has any little flag icons in a bio infobox... :-) Carcharoth 03:55, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Dear Carcharoth, whilst I see your point, your point can be applied to infoboxes for philosophers, writers and dozens of other cases. The trick to solve the problem is not to scrap infoboxes (because there are tens of thousands on the 'pedia and here to stay) but to recognise that one can be creative on an article-by-article basis. It is an art to summarize things and summaries can always be done. The creativity can take the form of careful wording, use of the Footnote field in the infobox, and even in some cases leaving a field blank if not applicable (eg. if someone is not dead, the date of death field is left blank). Editors of each article can decide (by consensus) which fields to leave blank...there's nothing wrong with that. It's better to do that, than to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Specifically, which fileds in which article are you having issues with? Best regards, bunix 11:21, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image:Rolf landauer.jpg

Hi, I'm confused about Image:Rolf landauer.jpg. It's marked as both a copyrighted promotional image and a cc-licensed image. Which is it? If it's cc-licensed, can you put in the description where specifically it was released under that license? Thanks... —Chowbok ☠ 02:06, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Hi Chowbok, I don't understand. You appear to be saying that promo images and CC are mutually exclusive. Please explain rationale. If you are correct, then which alternative to CC should one switch to? Best, bunix 23:42, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Well, let's go back a bit. Who owns the copyright on that photo? —Chowbok ☠ 21:08, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
IBM (I think)...although their website doesn't explicity say that. It simply contains the photo for free download for media releases, promotional use etc etc. bunix 21:16, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
Okay, if you don't know who owns the copyright, then you can't say that the image is CC-licensed. An image has to be specifically licensed that way by the copyright owner, they can't just say it's for free download, etc. I'm going to mark that as a promotional photo, and also mark it as replaceable. (You'll be seeing the boilerplate text that explains that shortly.) Please let me know if you have any questions. Also, can you please sign your messages on my talk page with ~~~~? That way I can click right on your username and go back to your talk page. —Chowbok ☠ 21:23, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
Actually, he's dead, isn't he? I'll just mark it promo for now (not replaceable). —Chowbok ☠ 21:24, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
Yes, he is dead as a doornail. I thought it was already marked as promophoto. bunix 21:31, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Quick Note

Hello. Please don't forget to provide an edit summary. Thanks, and happy editing.

Dep. Garcia (Talk to Me) 21:03, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image:ThomasMCover.jpg

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It's not that you tagged it incorrectly, it's that (at least IMO) it can reasonably be replaced by a free image. —Chowbok ☠ 16:27, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Patrick McSharry

I've recently nominated the Patrick McSharry article for deletion and considering your comments in its talk page, I thought you might want to vote here. GringoInChile 23:58, 14 November 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Image:PaulCWDavies.jpg

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[edit] Image:VCraigJordan.jpg

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[edit] Image:AlexeiAlexeyevichAbrikosov.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:AlexeiAlexeyevichAbrikosov.jpg. I notice the 'image' page specifies that the image is being used under fair use, but its use in Wikipedia articles fails our first fair use criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed image could reasonably be found or created. If you believe this image is not replaceable, please:

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[edit] More replaceable fair use images

  • Image:RoyJayGlauber.jpg

—Chowbok ☠ 07:11, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

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