Talk:Bulldog
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[edit] francis from Oliver and Company
you saw that on disney today too, eh? Gzuckier 23:43, 1 May 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Disambiguation/Bulldog or English Bulldog
Hello, I think Bulldog should be made a disambiguation page and the bulldog page renamed English Bulldog. Each bulldog breed Category:Bulldog breeds and related webpages could be listed on the disambiguation page. There are many types of bulldogs, it seems unfair to give it to just one breed. The English Bulldog is not really just called a bulldog. WritersCramp 17:01, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
- Hmm, I have arguements both for and against this. But at the moment, im leaning towards "yes". After all, the English Mastiff Is more often simply called "Mastiff" but that name is being used by a page describing the Mastiff group in general.
- I would vote to rename the Bulldog "English Bulldog" but i would then turn the bage into a bulldog group page over a disambig. Tekana | Talk 17:37, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
- Hello, glad to see such a quick and definite response. By doing this I do not mean to slight the English Bulldog, I simply believe that stating the are "Bulldog" is really confuses people. Perhaps, an historical perspective of the Bulldog as Tekana suggested would be the most appropriate. I created the Bulldog Categor y, which supports the argument that when you say "Bulldog" is does not necessarily mean English Bulldog. WritersCramp 19:24, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
I have moved the English Bulldog and created a separate Bulldog page. There is certainly room for improvement, I won't be offended if you want to embelish it ! WritersCramp 02:30, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
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- Its good you have said that, because in my opinion, it needs a LOT of embellishing!
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- First of all, remove everything about bullbaiting, that infomation needs to be in the bull baiting article, not the bulldog article! I am aware that they coincide, and a small paragraph or so should dedicated to it. But at the moment, the page is basically just an article on bull baiting!
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- It needs a lot mor info on the bulldog breeds in themselves. A few things to include might be:
- What was the origininal bulldog breed?
- How have the Bulldog breeds changed over the years?
- How have the breeds evolved?
- How popular they are as pets/working dogs?
- Other uses of bulldog breeds (are they used as assistance dogs? detection dogs?)
- The reputation of the bulltdog breeds?
- Charicteristics of the bulldogs in general?
- What makes a bulldog breed a bulldog breed?
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- Is the original purpose of every bully breed to fight bulls, or were they just named so because of physical or mental likeliness to bulldog breeds?
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- How about a list of Bulldog breeds?
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- If you need help, my Talk page isnt going anywhere! Also, you could look at the Mastiff, or the Working dog pages to search for ideas! Tekana | Talk 09:00, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
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- Ack, ack, ack, this is me waving my arms and jumping up and down.
- One response within one day is not difinitive. There are others of us out there who might have opinions.
- Moving a page does NOT entail copying the text and pasting it someplace else; that loses all of the history for that page, leaving it behind in wherever it is that it was copied from. There might be a way now for an admin to undo the copy/paste move and then recreate the new bulldog page, but I'm going to have to research it as I don't remember what the process is. In any event, it's work. If you want to move a page to somewhere where there's currently a redirect, you need to ask to have the redir page removed (and explain why) on the appropriate WP page and then actuallY MOVE the original page.
- There was in fact intelligent design in why the pages were named what they were. Back in May '04, dog project had a discussion on this topic, and if I could find that discussion, I'd be so happy I'd be waving only one arm instead of both. The gist was that most kennel clubs and breed clubs call the breed "Bulldog"; UKC calls it the "English Bulldog" and I think they're the only major english-speaking club to do so; one other calls it the "British Bulldog". So "Bulldog" is by far the most-common breed name. Still, at the time we *did* have the discussion about where to put the general discussion of bulldog breeds. I'm going to try asking Sannse whether she can put her finger on that discussion, as half an hour of searching on my part doesn't turn it up. I'm hoping that it didn't somehow get deleted when someone was moving pages around at some time, or overwritten by a newbie, or something like that.
- Elf | Talk 22:58, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
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Sorry Elf I did not realize that the copy and the move had destinctive functions. I still believe that the Bulldog page should be a default page for all Bulldog breeds. However, if I am out voted that is okay. If there was a discussion on the Bulldog page it should have been pasted here, so others can find it. Cordially WritersCramp 23:39, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
- Oh, I agree about that last bit--it drives me crazy when I can't find stuff like that. I think most of us try to move discussions to the appropriate places, but obviously this one didn't. Sorry I can't refer to that. Elf | Talk 00:52, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Restarting discussion
Since no one else has weighed in on this issue and I can't find the original discussion from over a year ago, and the more I think about it, the more I agree with the two of you on how the articles should be organized. I really just wanted to make sure that the page histories stayed with the correct text, and I didn't want to muck too much with moving things around, so this Bulldog/Bulldog breeds split was a quick fix. I know that Bulldog Breeds isn't a consistent article title--it shd be either Bulldog breed (which doesn't make much sense) or List of bulldog breeds (which we already know we don't want--we want (and have) an explanation of what a bulldog is, including a list of bulldog breeds.
So what I'm saying is, following tekana's argument about Mastiff/English Mastiff, OK, I can go for the Bulldog/English Bulldog split. And I can do the move/rename correctly this time, if y'all still want this to be done. Elf | Talk 16:06, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Bulldog/English Bulldog/Bulldog breeds
OK, here's what I did to try to get most of the page's history back with the text that goes with it:
- Created a new page, Bulldog breeds, to hold the generic bulldog article written by WritersCramp.
- Left this page (already reverted by someone else) as the breed page for the specific breed "Bulldog" and folded in the two small changes (as far as I can tell) made while it was at English Bulldog
- Turned English Bulldog back into a redirect here.
Now--that does not mean that that's how these pages have to stay. When the naming is decided, we can rearrange the pages with proper moves. If anything needs to be deleted to accomplish that, I can do it. Elf | Talk 20:08, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
[edit] The history section is ridiculuous
I see we repeat here the apocryphal nonsense about this dog being in some way, shape or form descended from bull-baiting dogs, and that the smushy face of modern "bulldogs" somehow served a purpose in bull-baiting.
"Its short and slightly upward facing snout enables it to breathe while keeping hold of the bull, its wrinkles allowed blood to flow away from the dog's eyes and nose, and its thickly-muscled neck and light hind end helped to prevent the thrashing of the bull's head from breaking the dog's spine."
Again, ridiculous.
Its short snout gives it breathing problems even when it is lying down. Its weak jaws mean that latching onto a bull would be impossible. Its odd build means that it is among the most unathletic dogs.
These animals were bred for their comical appearance.
I object to having factoids dressed up in the form of an encylopedia entry.
- While this information may be true today, when the breed was used for bull baiting it was not. The breed has changed dramatically over the years. Since bull baiing was banned, enthusiasts of the breed made it more compact with a shorter nose and exaggerated wrinkles. The modern bulldog is nothing like its fighting anscestor. Tekana (O.o) Talk 18:31, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
- I agree, the history section needs to be edited. The "English Bulldog" did not achieve its present form out of the utility of bullbaiting, the dog was bred to be what it is as a service of fancy. Further, I think we need to be truthful here, the "English Bulldog" is a bastardized product of the Bulldog of the pre-Victorian era and the Pug.
[edit] merge
The old english,original and wilkinsons bulldog pages should be merged.
- No Merge - these are separate breeds SirIsaacBrock 03:03, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
- I don't know about merging the "English Bulldog" page with the other ones, considering it is a different breed and its ancestry has already been sufficiently covered; however, I like the idea of merging the Original English Bulldog page with the Wilkinson and American Bulldog pages. The only problem is that such an article would become rather overwhelming.
[edit] The Legendary Bulldog
Anyone acquire this book yet ?? ISBN 1595940324
SirIsaacBrock 10:23, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Mascots
I think that the current mascot section of this article is getting a bit out of control. Anyone have any objection to removing the list and creating a List of Bulldog mascots article instead? - Trysha (talk) 19:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
