Talk:Bulgarian Muslims

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Please try not to edit this article any more. It was created to mainly serve the Slavic peoples page and especially the list of Slavic peoples (Slavic > South Slavic > Bulgarian > Muslim). Its current version fits that purpose best. It is all about Bulgarians of Islamic faith and nothing else so if you have any concerns about some other ethnic identities, please share them elsewhere. Thank you all!

As soon as I get in contact with the National Statistic Institute I'll add census data. Ogneslav 09:17, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Ogneslav, I expect YOU to deal with the future Greek and Turkish editors of this article (which I wrote initially as a matter of fact), becuase they'll come - sooner or later. ~~VMORO

Umm, you did great job - it's a nice article. Между другото намерих една карта на българите мюсюлмани и веднага щом успея да я сканирам, ще я публикувам тук, за да видиш къде точно са торбешите в България. Трябваше да се хванем на бас, щото пари не са ми излишни, но нищо - другия път като ме обвиниш, че говоря глупости... Шегувам се, поздрав! :) Ogneslav 21:54, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Ami az imam edna veche-:))... (Za karta na pomacite govorq) A ti ne mi se varzvaj mnogo-mnogo, ponqkoga malko se pouvli4am. A s "pomaci" sam sviknal ot anglo-saksonskite etnografski naimenovaniq, te prosto tozi termin si polzvat... VMORO

[edit] Census data

This is from the last national census in Bulgaria (year 2001) performed by the National Statistic Institute.

Following are regions where most of Muslim Bulgarians live:

Region Blagoevgrad Muslims - 62,431; Turks - 31,857; Turkish as mother tongue - 19,819;

Region Kurjali Muslims - 114,217; Turks - 101,116; Turkish as mother tongue - 101,548;

Region Lovech Muslims - 10,501; Turks - 8,476; Turkish as mother tongue - 6,994;

Region Pazarjik Muslims - 46,338; Turks - 20,448; Turkish as mother tongue - 21,902;

Region Smolyan Muslims - 58,758; Turks - 6,212; Turkish as mother tongue - 5,782;

Summary of those regions: Muslims - 292,245; Turks - 168,109; Turkish as mother tongue - 156,045; Roma Muslims - 12,454; Bulgarian Muslims - 111,682; "Turks" with Bulgarian mother tongue - 12,604;

What we get as a result is that Muslims with Bulgarian mother tongue are 124,286. 12,604 (10,1%) of them considered themselves Turks and 111,682 (89,9%) - Bulgarians. Ogneslav 10:06, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Ami te vsa6tnost sa pone dvojno poveche (govorq za pomacite kato grupa s ob6v proizhod)>>> kam tqh spadat ok. 50,000 neobqvili religiozna prinadlezhnost balgari ot Smolyanski i Kardzhalijski okrag, vsi4kite okolo 50,000 "turci" ot Pazardzhishki i Blagoevgradski okrag i pone okolo 20,000 hristiqni ot Smolqnsko i Kardzhalijsko. Kam tozi broj mogat da se pribavqt pone okolo 20,000 du6i zagubeni tuk-tam i polu4avame ok. 250,000-260,000 du6i, koeto se varzva s iz4isleniqta ot MVR za 1989 (280,000). Ina4e dobre manipulira6 dannite, haha-:))) (Ako iska6 iztrij tozi pasazh) VMORO

Dali da ne dobavya za opitite za suzdavane na pomashka 'republika" sled Osvobojdenieto? --Vladko 11:27, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Unverified Information

I have removed the following paragraph as there is no citation and no information to back up what it states, it is a fact there was persecution by the Bulgarian government and that many Bulgarian Muslims fled but so far there is no information regarding people converting on a superficial level to avoid persecution, please find a link or some information which backs up your claims then re add to the article, thank you.

"Those living in the eastern and central parts of the Rhodopes (the provinces of Smolyan and Kardzhali) tend to be nominal muslims. A number of them, especially those living in the municipalities of Zlatograd, Nedelino, Krumovgrad, and Kirkovo, converted to Christianity in the 1990s, largely because of the persecution of Bulgaria's Muslim community carried out by the former Communist Bulgarian government.^{[citation needed]} " —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Taz Manchester (talk • contribs) 14:05, 7 June 2006.

[edit] Page moved

I have moved this article to Bulgarian Muslims as a Google test proves that it by far more common than "Muslim Bulgarians", and it is more in line with Macedonian Muslims, Greek Muslims (and one could even say Bosnian Muslims although it is not very politically correct). I figure this'll be pretty uncontroversial, so a poll would be a waste of time. If I'm wrong however, the redirect is still intact, so I can be reverted. --Tēlex 19:00, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Dear Telex, you are not a native English speaker and probably for that reason you don't seem to understand that Muslim Bulgarians means people who profess themselves to be Bulgarians of the Muslim denomination (what the articly is actually about), whereas Bulgarian Muslims relate to all Muslims who live in Bulgaria regardless of the ethnicity they profess (Bulgarian, Turkish, Roma, etc.). A simple Google test, as you call it, cannot explain that, so, please, refrain from changing names of articles because of Google tests. It is quite natural that you find more hits with "Bulgarian Muslims" - this name comprises all Muslims in Bulgaria - who are united in one denomination regardless of ethnicity and are represented by the Grand Mufty of the country. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.91.139.111 (talk • contribs) 16:56, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Dear anon. Your copypaste move has made restoring the article impossible without admin assistance - you should have discussed on the talk page first. Additionally, I find your claim that there is some difference between "Bulgarian Muslims" and "Muslim Bulgarians" rather dubious, as they are synonyms (or you have not demonstrated a difference - there are sources using either term to refer to the Pomaks). Furthermore, the Islamic community of Bulgaria is dealt with at Islam in Bulgaria. Anyway, the issue here is that I have moved the article without following proper procedure - we should get an admin to move it back, and investigate the possibilities of merging it with Pomaks, as we have two articles dealing with the same topic. Do not make copypaste moves though - the page histories are lost and it violates the GFDL. We'll need admin assistance to move the pages back. --Tēlex 21:06, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, pages should not be moved via a cut and paste operation, as it destroys the editing history. I left a message on your talk page, anon. Kevin_b_er 21:10, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Anon is absolutely right, this is about the usage of english language and not about bulgarian naming of the group. In english Bulgarian Musilms does mean "the Bulgarians of Islamic faith" but when Bulgarians is meant as citizens of the coutry. This does not coincide with pomatzi, poturnatzi as is claimed in the brackets. It includes for example the Bulgarian Turks and the Muslim Gypsies. If you want to lay claim in english on the bulgarian ethnicity of those muslims you should use "Muslim Bulgarians" instead. This presumably will cover all pomaks even those living outside the present boundaries. I think you should put a dash in "Bulgarian-Mohammedans" as well.

Anyway, when are you going to merge this article to the Pomaks one? It is a smart way to evade the POV war but it doesnt help the reader, and sooner or later it will be discovered. Have a look at my overly long comment on the Pomaks talk-page, please. Koliokolio 01:58, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

PS: "Bulgarian Muslims" should redirect to Islam in Bulgaria.