Talk:Bulgaria

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[edit] Macedonia and Bulgaria

I do not understand why Macedonians hate Bulgarians so much. I have to say, as a representative of the general Bulgarian public, that we Bulgarians do not have anything against Macedonians. The general opinion in Bulgaria is that Macedonians are in fact Bulgarians, given that they fought for their unification with Bulgaria only 100 years ago in the Balkan War and then in the First World War. It appears that this statement is extraordinary ofensive to the people of FYROM and my question to any person from this country who reads that (beacause it appears that quite a lot are reading it) is: Why are you so offended? Why are you not flattered by the fact that another nation wants to find historical roots with you and embrace you? Isn't it flattering rather than offensive that Bulgarians want to be recognized as one with the great Macedonian nation!? Your hatered seems very revealing to me. It is as if Macedonians are running from some ugly truth, which is none of my concern or, in fact, none of the concern of most peacefully living Bulgarians. We are not worried about history and we really do not care about the big controvrsy about it. What I am concerned about is all this hatered. I will take the liberty to represent the Bulgarian opinion on this matter: Macedonians, We do not hate you! We have nothing against you. But I have to say it gets tiring to listen about historical problems delivered to us with this extreme hatred. To those of you who are sensible: just forget about it and live in the present! We do not care, why should you? And maybe if you redirect all this hatered into something constructive Macedonia will truly become a greater country(if any more greatness than the present is possible).


I suggest that Bulgaria stops using the term Macedonia for anything else than the country Macedonia (also Macedonia or RoM, not FYROM) as this might misslead. Arnegjor 10:30, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Svetlo, Macedonia will always be to the Macedonian people, just am "sorry" for u that ur brain has been washed away, its a common thing in bulgaria

Well, officially you are still F.Y.R.O.M, you haven't won the name yet Svetlyo 13:13, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

I'm from Bulgarian Macedonia and since the end of Yugoslavia I have to change the name of my region, cause some other people

want to monopolise something that they don't have (less than 50%) and historically don't deserve.

At least they can give the opportunity for others to use the name Macedonia. How can I describe my region? Macedonia (Pirin), bordering Macedonia? Am I Macedonian, or not? And then if Macedonian I'm not Bulgarian? I can be Bulgarian Macedonian and they can be Slav Macedonians and Greeks can be Macedonians but they don't want to and you support them, they want to monopolise the name. I suggest that we change the name of the country to FYROM Svetlyo 19:20, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

We use the term "Republic of Macedonia" simply to distinguish the country from all the other places called Macedonia. It doesn't imply endorsement of that name - see Republic of Macedonia#Note. The reason we don't use "Republic of Bulgaria", "Republic of Greece" etc. is because those country names aren't the subject of confusion with other names. See Republic of China for a comparable example. -- ChrisO 19:35, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

You see how tricky it gets with the name Republic of Macedonia? Go get another name Svetlyo 00:44, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

I agree with Svetlyo. Besides, Macedonia belongs to Bulgaria anyways so give the land back!

I personaly don't know about a country named "Macedonia" i know of a province which belongs to Bulgaria named Macedonia.

Most sources point that Macedonia was part of Bulgaria before the Ottoman Empire but it is no longer. The only opinion that really matters is the Macedonian people’s. Nobody can force them to call themselves Bulgarians unless by exercising the Ottoman way of conversion which we Bulgarians know all too well. Therefore I must sadly disagree with some of the former statements.

Well the Serbs forced the Bulgarians in what is now Republic of Macedonia to think they are Macedonians when they failed to force them to think they are Serbs. And this was achieved after decades of terror. Tell me why you concider yourself as a Macedonian? Isn't it better to think more seriously and come to the conclusion that you and the population of Macedonia is Bulgarian.

OK I red all you guys said, and I must call in most parts bullsh*t. Let me tell you just one thing. Was Alexander or the people of Ancient Macedonia Slavs? NO.

[edit] Conversion of bulgarians to Islam

If the Ottoman empire had tried to proselytize the ethnic Bulgarians to Islam over a 500 year period, there would be no christian ethnic bulgarians left. Instead the majority of ethnic bulgarians are orthodox christians, the only muslims are the Turks and Tatar minorities, while only a small minority of muslims is ethnic bulgarian.

Why are there not more ethnically bulgarian muslims? why did the empire not try to make more bulgarians muslim? Is it because Turks and Bulgars are ethnically related? --Kahraman 11:01, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

Bulgarian and Turks are NOT ethnically related. In a few words the cristians in the borders of the Ottoman empire were forces to pay much bigger taxes (including the Blood Tax, which consisted of giving every first-born son to become a soldier in the Ottoman army), so it was better for the empire to have the majority of people with different religions.
We are so related to each other that whenever a bulgarian passes by a turkish cemetery, he has to clean up his nose and spit out what's left.Делян 23:58, 5 December 2006 (UTC)



At the NATO summit i Prague 21-22 November Bulgaria was invited to join NATO

Someone who knows/cares about Bulgaria might like to review/merge the content in Bulgarians ... Martin

Why is "Bulgaria" termed as "small"? I am not Bulgarian- and I am not taking offense at all, but it seems rather odd considering Bulgaria is not particularly "small" in the context of many of the world's nations.

We tried to discuss this at the Bulgarian Wikipedia, but only three people participated in the discourse. You're right, we are not a small country. --webkid 09:30, 24 Aug 2004 (UTC)

"...Khan Asparuh and his Bulgars migrated into the Balkans, where they assimilated the minor Slavic, Thracian inhabitants..." - I would say they were assimilated by the Slavic inhabitants, at least Turkic (or at least Altaic) language of Bolgars was completely lost as well as most of their cultural heritage... Essentially the most influential things brought by Bolgars were their military organization and the name of the people still in use today Vassili Nikolaev 09:11, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Romanization of Bulgarian names

What is the correct Romanization of Република България ?

  • Wikipedia says Republika Bulgariya
  • Encarta says Republika Bǎlgarija and apparently this is also used in the maps from the European Union website.

Probably there are two different versions of transliteration, but which is the official one ? Bogdan | Talk 19:33, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Yes, there are two different systems of transliteration - the first one uses diacritic symbols from Czech or Croatian (I don't remember exactly), the other one uses only the letters which exist in the English alphabet. The one which should be applied is the second one - the first one is practically never applied, at least not in Bulgaria. VMORO 14:33, Mar 9, 2005 (UTC)

In general, is there a standard accepted way of transliterating Bulgarian names from their original alphabets? Right now it's a mess, for instance:

  • ъ is sometimes u, sometimes a (I've seen ǎ and ŭ as well),
  • ю is sometimes iu, sometimes yu,
  • ц is sometimes ts, sometimes c,
  • х is sometimes kh, sometimes h

What I'd like to see is something like Transliteration of Russian into English. Markussep 8:20, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I collected some transliteration schemes here: Transliteration of Bulgarian into English. I think the United Nations system (with the Czech/Croatian diacritics) is not practical for Wikipedia. The BGN/PCGN and the official Bulgarian system are quite similar, except for х (kh vs. h), ц (ts vs. c), ъ (ŭ vs. a) and ь (' vs. y). Apart from the fact that the a's in Varna and the a in Tarnovo will not be distinguishable, the official Bulgarian system looks OK to me. Opinions? Markussep 10:36, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Are you entirely sure that ц according to the official Bulgarian system is transliterated with c? As, as far as I remember, it should be represented with tz... VMORO 21:53, Jun 12, 2005 (UTC)
I'm not 100% sure, I didn't see it on a Bulgarian government site. My source is this, it says "Bulgarian Council of Ministers". Tz seems strange though, a bit German. It's "c", see this ID card. Too bad they don't have a transliteration scheme there. Markussep 06:36, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Three other sources (the Bulgarian embassy in Washington, something that looks official too and another reference) say ц is ts, and refer to a law from 1999. Could be it changed from "c" to "ts". Markussep 13:29, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Well, on my ID card it is "tz", but basically you can just choose the kind of transliteration for your ID card for yourself. I expressly wanted to spell my name that way, because I think this is the most understandable way for all the nations (in English "tz" is spoken just like in German and so on) and in my eariler international pass (when I was too young to say personally what kind of transliteration I would like) it was also "tz". In many web pages containing bulgarian transliteration I also found "tz", look at this for example. I think the "c" spelling is totally wrong, it is used only by Bulgarians in the chat rooms for shorting the words when there's no cyrilic font, just think about it, it can be spoken as "s" or "k" or "tz" in the different languages.
I really don't know which of these is official, but that's what I think about and use. --Tzeck 20:26, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

That's funny, that you can choose your own transliteration. Was this before or after 1999? To me (I'm Dutch) "tz" is a bit strange because in Dutch (French, Polish, Czech likewise I think) it would be a voiced consonant. In German and Italian, "z" by itself would be the same as ц. You're right that "c" is ambiguous in many languages. I would prefer "ts" then. BTW I did the Google test for "Vratsa" (only English language pages), that was ts:tz:c = 91k:44k:7k. "Berkovitsa" ts:tz:c = 17k:12k:360. Markussep 20:53, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)


Ok, this is the transliteration of Bulgarian according to the Ministry of Internal Affairs [1]:
А Б В Г Д Е Ж З И Й К Л М Н О П Р С Т У Ф Х Ц Ч Ш Щ Ъ Ь Ю Я

A B V G D E ZH Z I Y K L M N O P R S T U F H TS CH SH SHT A Y YU YA

As you can see, the variant used is "ts" - although I think that "tz" also can be used. May be Tzeck has right that it can be optional. Anyway I agree with him completely as the present transliteration system is based solely on English and I have noticed that English speakers tend to pronounce "tz" as a voiceless affricat [ts] whereas "ts" brings about horrific problems and an unsecure prononciation somewhere around the voiceless fricative [s]. You shouldn't think too much about how the letter combination can be pronounced in different languages as the transliteration system is based solely on the English pronounciation; it is anyway impossible to invent a transliteration system which is universally valid for all languages, right? The problems come from the fact that before 1989 there were two transliteration systems. One used French as a model ([u] for example by "ou") and the other one diacritic signs. Afterwards there was a complete chaos and everyone transliterated as they wished. Well, enough for the lyrical digression - I think we should follow the offical system of the MIA (the same as the one you found for the Bulgarian Embassy in D.C.). VMORO 23:54, Jun 13, 2005 (UTC)
Here is the point - this is an English speaking Wikipedia and it doesn't matter if some letter could be spoken otherways in other languages different than English. And, Markussep, I forgot to make mention about the "ts" spelling, that I also find alright, but as VMORO said the most English sreaking people use "tz", that's the result of my personally "investigations", too. However, I find both of them ("tz" and "ts") usable for the Wikipedia (I just prefer "tz"), but not the "c".
The transiteration in Bulgaria is optional only for some difficult letters like this and I think when you say nothing about than it will be "ts" on your ID card. And that was in year 2000, but I don't think it was otherways before 1999. When I made my card I was thinking about going to Germany, but in German the most correct spelling of my name begins with "z" . But in England (and by any English speaking man, and there are many of them in the world) it will be pronounced totally wrong, as the bulgarian "з", not "ц". When it begins with "tz" there will be no problems pronounsing it right in both languages (the too most popular, not to forget). Well, I'm maybe influenced by these too languages and the fact that I had the idea to go to Germany, but still I think "tz" is the best choise for the English Wikipedia, "ts" the second. --Tzeck 14:36, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
If I remember my primary school lessons correctly, "ц" should be transliterated as "ts" just because they use to describe it as the union of "т" and "с". As for "х", I believe it should be "kh", based on my experience with Armenian. In it there are three Hs:Խ, Հ, Յ ; each with a different pronunciation. The one corresponding to the bulgarian "х" is "Խ", which is transliterated as "kh". Unfortunately my knowledge of linguistics is very limited and I can not describe the pronunciation of the sounds in question so that we can agree on a transliteration. However, I can tell you for certain that the pronunciation of the bulgarian "х" is stronger than that of the english "h", just like "Խ" is compared to "Հ". I hope I was of help. mattriculated 21:13, 09 Aug 2006

How about using this Ministry of Interior transliteration as the standard in Wikipedia for Bulgarian names (except where there are common English names like Sofia)? We can make it a naming convention. Markussep 08:34, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] In the interests of balance: Bulgaria's role in sending Macedonian Jews to Treblinka

When Bulgaria occupied Macedonia during World War Two, Bulgarian officials rounded up the Jews of Skopje in the city's main tobacco factory. From there they were handed over to German officials who sent them to their death in Treblinka. For this reason, I am not sure that it is balanced for this article to include the unqualified statement that Bulgaria was not involved in sending Jews to concentration camps. I can provide sources for my comment should these be requested. (This comment is by no means motivated by any sort of anti-Bulgarian sentiment. Please do not understand it as such.) User: MJ. April 6, 2005

Giovanni : Please, cite your sources if you want to be taken seriously! This applies to everybody advancing a theory, especially in public!

[edit] Bulgarians are descendants of the Moesians

Bulgarians did not come from anywhere in 679 because the truth is they've been living in the same region even before Christ for Bulgarians are in fact Thracians. Bulgarians is the new name of the Moesians (plus some other Thracian tribes). It is not really known why they started to call themselves Bulgarians but one possibility is that they got their name from the Romans as being federates of the Roman Empire for some time. It's possible that at one point around the time of Attila they mixed with one part of the "wandering thracians" or Schythians called Huns as Attila's son Irnik is said to be the second prince of the Bulgarians as stated in "List of Bulgarian kings". 83.228.61.152

I am sorry, I didn't mean to laugh but I couldn't resist! Bulgarians are mix of Pro- Bulgars, Slavs and Tracians. Me 00:35, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Giovanni : Please, cite your sources if you want to be taken seriously! This applies to everybody advancing a theory, especially in public!

It fascinates me how User:83.228.61.152 was able to fit so much pseudo-history in one short paragraph. He must have practised. Alexander 007 07:09, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

It amuses me how somebody can actually believe said "pseudo-history" mattriculated 21:16, 09 Aug 2006

Bulgarians are a mix of Thracians, Slavs and Bulgars. Around 679 the Bulgars came from the northeast and mixed with the Slavs and the minority of what was left from the Thracians tribes

[edit] Revert

I have reverted the following anonymous contribution:

"Recently, there have been voices calling for a change of the parliamentary system into presidential. Although probably the majority of citizens would support such a change, it seems unlikely that the deputies and the parties in the parliament would support it since it could limit their power."

I don't believe this paragraph adds any substantial, objective information, no sources, references or numbers are given, plus it seems rather insignificant to mention this type of recent opinions on a country-page.

Guus July 1, 2005 16:55 (UTC)

[edit] Hey, the article contains FALSE INFO

Taker a look at the part containing the info when the Bulgarians bacame Orthodox Christians. How could they become Greco-orthodox when the two churches DIDN'T EVEN SPLIT!!!!!!!!!???? Sargeras 17:37, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Wrong, fool! 90% of Greeks are gay, and the other 10% are transsexual! So, how would we have the same religion, as a bunch of queers. Clearly, God would seperate the heterosexual, from the Greeks. That is why he invented the Turk, so they can cuddle you at night.

[edit] Who knows this town?

In the WikiProject Wikipedia:Nuttall_Encyclopedia_topics, we hit on the city "Tirnova",

Tirnova is a fortified town of Bulgaria, 35 m. SSE. of Sistova. It is the seat of the Bulgarian patriarch. It was formerly the State capital.

Sistova seems to be a town in Moldavia, like the webpage of Tirnova The source is from 1907, so much has changed. Thanks--J heisenberg 12:16, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

Tirnova? No, Tarnovo or Turnovo, it's hard to spell it right to pronounce a letter that does not exist in English. Its Veliko Turnovo, like stated below. No such town Tirnova exist or existed. Me 00:41, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
It's probably ment the town of Tarnovo, spelled aslo as Turnovo (or Veliko Tarnovo), an old Bulgarian town in North Bulgaria with reach and long history, and it has been also the capital of Bulgaria indeed (until 1393) and also one of the most famous historical persons from Tarnovo is the Patriarch Evtimiy. So I think this article is some kind of mistake and should be removed or edited, if there is such town. --Tzeck 16:23, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
Thanks, that helped a lot --J heisenberg 17:15, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
Sistova seems to be Svishtov in that case. The names should be Romanian, at least they sound such to me, plus the Moldavian context. --TodorBozhinov 18:41, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
The names are actually the Turkish versions of the names of the towns, it is not only Sistova (Svishtov), but also Plevna (Pleven), Shumla (Shumen), etc. VMORO 08:50, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] War with the USA?

Is it true, due to some technicalities in peace treaties, Bulgaria and the USA were officially in a state of war from World War 2 until the 1980s? 153.104.16.114 23:52, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Not again those urban legends ... I've heard this for at least 3-4 other countries. It was the Cold War and Bulgaria was part of the Warsaw Pact, nothing more. → Тодор Божинов / Todor Bozhinov → Talk

De-Facto Bulgaria was IN war with the USA during WWII as ally to Nazi Germany. But USA soldiers or whatsoever never participated in combat versus Bulgarians.

Yes they did. The USAF bombed Sofia and few communication centres in the province; some American planes were shot down by the Bulgarian air force in the process. Apcbg 21:36, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bulgaria and James Bond

"Bulgaria is getting the latest addition to the James Bond franchise, Casino Royale, before several countries including Australia and Japan." First of all, this seems like something much too trivial to have its own section in the article. Secondly, and maybe more importantly, what does it even mean? Nicholai 20:07, 13 November 2005 (UTC)


I guess it means Casino Royale (2006 film) will be released in Bulgaria before Australia and Japan. This seems to be true according to this but I wouldn't expect movie release dates to feature in country articles.


--Mr link 21:50, 13 November 2005 (UTC)


Alrighty, I think I'll be taking it off then. (Hopefully I'm not overstepping my bounds. I'm new to this Wikipedia thing...) Nicholai 23:59, 13 November 2005 (UTC)


You are definately overstepping your bounds. Stop pushing your luck.


Mr link 23:59, 15 November 2005 (UTC)


Somebody impersonating me. What a strange feeling of importance this gives me.

--Mr link 00:08, 17 November 2005 (UTC)


Shut up you filthy Bulgarian.

--Mr link 20:08, 17 November 2005 (UTC)


Well...I do hope you're joking, I'll just assume so... Nicholai 14:42, 17 November 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Area

The area listed ( 111,001.9 km² ) and rank (102nd) do not match with the List_of_countries_by_area. I presume these should be the same but most country articles do not agree with the figures listed in List_of_countries_by_area.

--Mr link 21:11, 21 November 2005 (UTC) Filthy??? Zdr i az sam Bulgarin :P

[edit] % of Roma

The figure given of 4.7% of total population ins wrong... It is much more.

Official data is used. → Тодор Божинов / Todor Bozhinov → Talk 20:27, 25 January 2006 (UTC)


Of course the figure of 4.7% is wrong. The Roma minority in Bulgaria is around 10% out of around 7.5 million citizens in Bulgaria.

Roma minority is around 5 to 6 %, but the turkish is around 12-13% as the latest statistics. --Eliade 19:34, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

4.7% are those that consider themselves to be Roma. Many Roma although consider themselves to be Bulgarian or Turk, and even have Bulgarian surnames. They speak Bulgarian with a pecular accent some Turkish and Roma words thrown in or Turkish with some Roma words. Many Roma words have entered Bulgarian slang. Some of them have fully assimilated and you cannot tell them apart from the Bulgarians or the Bulgarian Turks. -dimitar ouzounoff

[edit] 1990s Turks issue

Some reference should be made about the government campaign against the turks...

This is done in the History of Communist Bulgaria article, and I personally don't consider it notable enough to be mentioned in the general Bulgaria article. → Тодор Божинов / Todor Bozhinov → Talk 20:27, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
May be mentioned in article Turks in Bulgaria. The campaign it was not only in the Communist Bulgaria. --Timurberk 22:23, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bulgarian Orthodox Church which was founded in 870 AD under the Patriarchate of Constantinople and has been autocephalous since 927.?????

Heeeeeeeeeey! Slow down! It was in 1870's when you got you Bulgarian church! Before, there was only the beautifull and very romantic thing called Ottoman rule + Church of Constantinopoli!

Ummm... false. Read the article first. Our church was restored in 1870, but founded in 870 and autonomous since 927. Besides, I don't really think the Ottoman rule and the Patriarchate of Constantinople are that beautiful and romantic, whatever this is supposed to mean. → Тодор Божинов / Todor Bozhinov → Talk 20:07, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

If you do not know what the terms romantic and beautiful are supposed to mean, how can you refute them when applied to state institutions? Perhaps you mean that these terms are not 'suitable'. No, they are not; though they must have had some romance and beauty.Politis 13:43, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

The greek guy - you can read a bit more history before you write in bold !!! And I don't think the city you are mentioning is Constantinopoli ... Istanbul is closer ... or Tsarigrad if you want.


Generally I think the article is very good. I have only one question - Why it doesn't say on the left banner what year Bulgaria was christianized? I mean, this is an important information, being the first slavic country to aqcuire the Christian religion. If you look at the polish page it's widely anounced. --Stoyan.stoyan 16:07, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit]

[edit] Jewish

How many Jews are living in Balgarija an in Sofija? What language is spoken by them? Perhabs they are Aschkenasim-Jews!? Simon Mayer

Most of Bulgaria's Jews, as far as I know, are Sephardim that traditionally have spoken Ladino, although it's not a language you would commonly hear nowadays. It is hard to determine the number of Jews, but here is a brief list of important people of Jewish origin that are connected to Bulgaria. → Тодор Божинов / Todor Bozhinov → 11:11, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Bulgaria did more to protect Jews from the Holocaust than the vast majority of European nations.

[edit] Bulgars where an ancient turkish tribe

Why do Bulgarians use the ancient name Bulgaria which was a turkish tribe in the area you live today?

Why do Russians use the name of the Scandinavian Rus' people? Why do the mostly Celtic and Latin French use the name of the Germanic Franks? It's just how things happened through the course of history, I wouldn't say it's uncommon for a people to adopt the name of another people, given the many examples. Besides, Bulgars had an important role in the early years of Bulgarian history, before they mixed with or (more likely to me) were even assimilated by the local Slavs. → Тодор Божинов / Todor Bozhinov → 22:37, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

The ancient name Bulgaria was a turkish tribe??? What, uh, uh!!! Bulgaria is a name that comes from the bulgarians, people from the Volga region in todays Russia or Ukraine.

[edit] POLL: Introduction for Republic of Macedonia article

Given ongoing discussions and recent edit warring, a poll is currently underway to decide the rendition of the lead for the Republic of Macedonia article. Please weigh in! E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 01:04, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gallery

Zdrasti Bozhinov! Moje6 li da dobavi6 taka nare4enata "Gallery" kum tazi statia (kakto pri Romania, Turkey i Serbia naprimer) ? Ne 4e iskam da prili4ame na tqh, no ako priemem, 4e stra6no mnogo hora izpolzvat wikipedia to za6to togava da ne si napravim malko reklamka (snimki ot 4ernomorieto, vazrojdenski seli6ta i drugi prirodni zabelejitelnosti) ?Samiat az neznam kak se pravi tova i zatova se obra6tam s tazi molba kum teb.

Да, и аз си мислех за нещо подобно и наистина има нужда, снимките са перфектни за илюстрация и дават представа за страната повече от много текст. Ще се заема да отсея разни хубави снимки и да си сложим една галерийка. → Тодор Божинов / Todor Bozhinov → 14:18, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Готово! Ти ако в Уикипедия си намерил други хубави снимки, за които смяташ, че имат място в статията, като са достатъчно качествени и изобразяват познати и известни обекти или характерни черти на България, се чувствай напълно свободен да ги добавиш към галерията, тя е затова :) → Тодор Божинов / Todor Bozhinov → 16:06, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Summary in English

A proposal to add a photo gallery to the page as in other country articles. It was shortly fulfilled by me. → Тодор Божинов / Todor Bozhinov → 16:06, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Great job at adding the picture gallery Todor! I think it's a good start; my only suggestion would be to add more visually appealing pictures. Also, to include pictures of places unique to Bulgaria. Let me know what you think. Thanks! --Kassabov 07:08, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
Well, don't hesitate to add images that you've found on Wikipedia and that are released under a free license to the gallery! The ones I've picked out are some of the more appealing ones, I believe, but also feel free to remove some in order to prevent the gallery from getting too large. Be bold! → Тодор Божинов / Todor Bozhinov → 11:05, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Bulgaria

Hello! WikiProject Bulgaria, devoted to better organizing, maintaining and developing the network of Bulgaria-related articles, is currently gathering members in order to be started. If you're interested in participating, add your name to the "Interested Wikipedians" subsection of the proposed project's section in the list of proposed WikiProjects. → Тодор Божинов / Todor Bozhinov → 17:22, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bulgarian sport

Where can I find a home page for Bulgarian sport? I would like to write more articles on Bulgarian sportspeople, but there is no point of reference I can find. --Cryout 15:40, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

tons of great bulgarian weightlifters here: http://www.chidlovski.net/liftup/l_athlete_listingCountry.asp?cdescription=Bulgaria

[edit] Where do links about torture in Bulgaria go?

I don't know how common torture is in Bulgaria, but this story about police torturing nurses for 174 days suggests that it's a problem. The webpage says its information comes from "Troud", which it says is Bulgaria's biggest newspaper. Is Bulgaria's human rights record discussed anywhere? or where should links like this go? Gronky 22:53, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Ah, hello? This article is about torturing Bulgarian nurses in Lybia /FunkyFly.talk_ 22:55, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
Oh, thanks. Glad I asked. Gronky 17:29, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
Bulgaria has no negative human rights record I know of after the forcing some Turkish population to leave or change their names in the late 1980s. All abuses are handled at the court in the Hague - and Bulgaria fully accepts its responsibilities. Indeed, it is Bulgarian citizens abroad whose rights are occasionally abused. --Cryout 13:38, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Empire !?!?!?

Doesn't anybody have a problem with the term EMPIRE used everywhere in this page !? I am Bulgarian and love and respect the history of my country, yet it has never been an Empire. Yes, Simeon might have assumed the style of "Emperor of the Bulgars and the Romans", but we had Hans, Tzars and Knjazs' ruling the country through its history!

http://www.bulgaria.com/history/rulers/

This is the first and only place I've seen discussion of First, Second etc. Bulgarian Empires!

Evgeny Kolev / Евгени Колев —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 138.90.4.2 (talk • contribs) 17:21, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

As far as I know, "Empire" is the established historical term in the English-speaking part of the world. --Daggerstab 18:06, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
Evgeny, the title tsar itself means "emperor". It is a contraction of the Roman title caesar. The lesser one that cowprresponds to "king" is "kral", as you might know. The medieval Bulgarian state was never ruled by a "kral". How do you understand the difference between an empire and a kingdom in this context and in general? Todor Bozhinov → 19:38, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
This can be found in the [http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/empire?view=uk|Oxford dictionary under empire: (1) an extensive group of states ruled over by a single monarch or ruling authority; (2) supreme political power. I believe the relevant explanation is (1). Then, there is my general understanding, which is somewhat supported by Wikipedia's article on empire: a supranational or superethnical political entity that is ruled by a monarch (with absolute power). In this sense Bulgaria has been an empire for short period of time: maybe under Simeon and then around the years of Ivan Asen II. However, this doesn't turn Bulgaria into an empire for the genral case (so First, Second or Third Empire is meaningless). Now, we should also remember that the Bulgarian use of "tzar" has little to do with "emperor". To say the least, our current Tzar Simeon II was never a ruler of more than one (major) nationality within the borders of the Kingdom of Bulgaria. I will not change the terms before I get some response in the near future. However, it is my firm belief that they have to be changed. --Cryout 06:49, 8 July 2006 (UTC)


Emperors are autocrats with absolute power elected by the people represented by their electives. For example Julius Ceaser was elected Emperor by the Roman Senate [2] or Napoleon Bonaparte was (at least technically) elected by the French Parliament.
Since the etymology of Tsar is from ceaser some confuse Tsar with Emperor, however the term Tsar clearly changed its meaning in Bulgarian (more about this here [3]) and should be translated as King, respectively Tsarstvo is Kingdom.
In contrast, the Serbian language (along with the closely related Croatian, Bosnian, and Slovene languages) translates "emperor" (Latin imperator) as tsar (car, цар) and not as imperator, whereas the equivalent of king (kralj, краљ) is used to designate monarchs of non-imperial status, Serbian as well as foreign, including Biblical and other ancient rulers.
Since Tsar in Bulgarian is the hereditary title of the ruler of a sovereign state appointed by god, the article is incorrect and should be edited to use King or Tsar and Bulgarian Kingdom. 66.194.227.150 16:30, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pronounciation in IPA

Correct me if I am wrong but I think there is a typing mistake in the IPA pronounciation of Bulgaria as written in IPA: /ˌbɤlgarˈia/. The IPA letter ɤ is pronounced closer to G - this letter describes a consonant not a vowel! Please correct it, because I am not sure which one has to be used (according to me the correct pronounciation is ˌbəlgarˈia). Am I right? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 195.69.167.63 (talk • contribs).

Take a look at the articles on IPA and Bulgarian language. --Daggerstab 17:50, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Many countries (1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ...) cite the IPA transcription of their names in square brackets. I gave up before finding any pages of countries that use slashes. As the transciption here looks narrow enough, I suggest that we use brackets too. --Cameltrader 17:59, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

OK, it seems that some (European) countries do, in fact, use slashes — Montenegro, Romania, and the Ukraine. I leave it as it is, but something else still looks not quite right: why not put the stresses before the syllables instead of immediately before the vowels? --Cameltrader 13:48, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] fishing in Bulgaria

What type of fish can I catch in the river Yantra? I am going to visit Veliko Turnovo and hope to fish there. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.21.128.84 (talk • contribs).

According to the website of some hunting lodge, a certain reservoir at the Yantra (called Skalsko) is stocked with sheatfish, carp, and chub, among others. Unfortunately, I'm not a specialist and half of the fish listed on the website don't seem to show up in my Bulgarian-English dictionary, so I don't know the names in English. Todor→Bozhinov 19:03, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] CIA World Factbook link is broken

,.

[edit] Genetic study source

Could somebody point me to the source of the genetic phenotype results presented in the history section of the article? --Cryout 04:00, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Second oldest capital?

Are you sure Sofia is second oldest capital in Europe? I'm not. --Tzeck 08:54, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm also against in saying that Sofia is the second oldest capital in Europe, where are Athene, Rome? --Eliade 19:32, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
In Greece, Italy? Sofia is as almost as old as Rome, which was traditionally founded in 753 BC (7th 8th century BC), and Sofia's history dates back to the 7th century BC. As for Athens, it's the first in that list :) I'm also against mentioning that 'second' thing, but 'one of the oldest' is more than perfectly acceptable, if even a bit modest (but we Bulgarians are modest people, generally). Todor→Bozhinov 20:21, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Education missing?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgaria#Education why? --Eliade 19:59, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, somebody inserted the heading and decided not to write anything under it, that's why. It's not because we don't have anything to boast in that sphere, that's for certain :) Like, the oldest academies of the medieval Slavic world, etc.

Can someone tell me who removed the sections about John Atanasoff, the Pravetz and military aeronautical achievements of the Bulgarians? I am curious, is someone here unhappy about Bulgaria's achievements. If you don't believe thees things, do the research yourself. Furtherstill, you can look at the genotype studies done in recent years and you will see that 60% of Bulgarian phenotypes are Eastern Mediterrenean in origin, which is directly descended from the Thracians. Recent studies in BAN, also show that the Bulgars originated in the Hindu Kush and were not Turkic in origin. In fact, they were as previously stated of Aryan Persian descent. And Aryan has nothing to do with blond hair and blue eyes, as the real aryans were dark. If you want to re-invent Bulgarian history or simply ommit facts, such as the computer industry developed in the 1970s, or world firsts such as those made by Bulgarian pilots in the Second Balkan War then you obviously have complexes that make you fear the truth. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Monshuai (talk • contribs).

No, I'm relying on the established historical facts. Recent studies don't convince me, and let's not mention a controversial topic like the Bulgars' origin (I don't say they were Turkic). You're the one reinventing or revising, since you're trying to make recent theories look like established facts when they're not, and this is close to WP:OR. Also, the history section was getting too long, you may like to expand the relevant articles (Bulgars, First Bulgarian Empire, Military history of Bulgaria during World War II, etc.) instead. And place cite your sources when claiming things such as 'oldest country in Europe', 'second in the world after the USA to develop a personal computer industry', etc. Also, do you really think John Atanasoff's medals are relevant in the history section of an article so general as this one? Consider that. Todor→Bozhinov 10:51, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
Well, is there no one who can contribute to the Education paragraph? --Eliade 07:19, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] History section

OK, first of all Mr. Bozhinov, you don't have the ultimate right to decide what should and should not be in the history section. Second, your perception of what is subjective or invented is yours alone, and if you want sources, I'll give you sources. I'm leaving for Shanghai on Thursday, but in approximately five weeks I'll be back with those additions and their respective academic sources. Would you prefer them in MLA or APA? :) BTW, I'm not going to go into your education vs. my education, but if you prefer I'll be more than happy to tell you what I do and thus likely imply to you that my knowledge and authority on history is well regarded in national circles. Furthermore, what you do not seem to realize is that history is one lie built on top of another, and the way in which you portray Bulgarian history supports some of the lies built from imperial propaganda that spawned in classical Europe just two centuries ago. If you're not sure what I'm talking about, than I'll be happy to enlighten you on this issue. It is thus critically important to portray Bulgarian history from our perspective with our studies and interpretations at the forefront, because after all we are its agent and trans-generational carriers. There is already too much anti-Bulgarian propaganda due to multiple failures on our part in international relations and in particular due to the volatility and strategic importance of the region where our country is located. I will however say that what I write is an integral part of the modern curriculum in Bulgarian schools and universities. If you feel you have the authority to go against that curriculum and the way in which it interprets history, versus what is likely a history you learned in communist days from Mother Russia and its scholars, then you have a psychological inadequacy that is exacerbated by delusional visions of personal grandeur Mr. Bozhinov. However, if you accept the material as it was, with a list of sources, then I will gladly reconsider my last statement. And parenthetically, the oldest country in Europe refers to Bulgaria being the only one with a national identity of the so-called 'Bulgarian sovereignty' since 681 (despite repeated invasions from external entities). Our culture goes back much further than this date, but only since 681 have we called ourselves Bulgarian (as a reference to a people of multiple cultural origins and not only Bulgar), whilst the general central geographic area of the country has remained the same. No other country in Europe can claim the same status as applied to the last 1325 years; thereby this perspective is correct as based on the modern understanding of nationality (identified by the majority of the united populace as belonging to an internal collective) and geographic cohesiveness. On the other hand, if you have been influenced by Western Europe's interpretation on the matter as expressed in the Treaty of Westphalia (1648), then you probably feel that no country existed in the modern sense before this date. That said, the historical subjectivity born from the said treaty is rather West-Euro centric and does not take into consideration the developments of nationhood in other parts of the world, which came much earlier than its own entrance into the world of lawful international politics.

Once again, you leave me no choice but to prove you wrong, and your comment on recent studies not convincing you is beyond the issue. You are not the one who even needs to be convinced as you do not hold the key to Bulgaria's history, and as far as I know, in no way are you a prominent individual within our society. If I'm wrong about that please correct me, and then I shall also gladly tell who I am and what my position in our society is. I will write again what you removed, and therein it will be your futile job to prove me wrong in order to try and establish your opinion as one that carries higher ground. So in fact, it is your comments that don't convince me, and I must be brutally honest with you, as I feel I need not be convinced by someone who thus far has given me a negative impression of their intellectual capacity. I realize this may lead to a nasty argument, but do remember that I added to what was written and only removed the 'turkic' connection from the article as this has been proven to be incorrect. You on the other hand feel you have the clout to simply remove everything someone has contributed... So why should we not talk about our Bulgarian achievements and someone like Atanasoff. This is about as much as most foreign people will read on the Bulgaria section, and it certainly is beneficial to our country to showcase facts that elevate the status of the nation beyond its miserable current international reputation, or lack thereof. What you don't seem to realize is that this article is also a virtual advertisement for Bulgaria. Please don’t convulse and then try to explain that history does not have a commercial implication. That’s not what I’m stating, as history is always written in the best interests of the victors. It’s time we write in this way too, as no one else will go out of their way to emphasize those facts that place a little more light on our civilization, both from collective and individual achievements. Do you even know the meaning of socio-cultural marketing? If you don't, I suggest you research the masters at this game, primarily the USA, England and recently China.

I truly hope that you are not the kind of thickheaded fool that I have visualized upon my first impressions. Indeed, I am sincerely optimistic that some part of what I said will permeate into your psyche, thereby giving you the opportunity to see the value of what I just wrote along with what I had written two days ago in the main article. The best way to resolve this issue is through intellectual dialogue and a unified national spirit... So as you say, "consider that!"

Please refrain from personal attacks. Now, if you're willing to provide very serious referencing for the things you believe in, and acknowledge they're not the accepted and universal history of Bulgaria, then they might be suitable to include. I'm not any authority on the subject or anything like that, I'm only one Wikipedian following Wikipedia principles, guidelines and policies, and they say "no original research" and "neutral point of view". New theories may be true, but they also may be wrong — time will tell. Until then, the history of Bulgaria is as established by the authoritative sources and books on the topic. When you add content here, you're supposed to follow the rules — no matter what your education is and anything else, you're just a Wikipedian.
Also, I haven't removed Atanasoff from the article, he's part of the Culture section already. Note that this article is supposed to be a concise summary, with the vast majority of the actual content being located at other, specific topic-related pages (like, for example, First Bulgarian Empire or Ivan Asen II of Bulgaria). This is one of the reasons I've removed your additions — they were in the inappropriate article, and content like this, generally considered to be controversial, is as a rule removed until (or if) it can be made neutral and perfectly referenced. So it's your turn now. Todor→Bozhinov 17:50, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

May I ask you Mr. Bozhinov, what are these authoritative and established books that you have been reading? I'm curious, because the most authoritative Bulgarian books say different things then what you have presented thus far. In consequence, I'm led to believe that your identification of authority is something external to the Bulgarian academic environment. Bulgaria does not write the history of other nations, and if we were to do so, then their populaces would contest many facts due to disagreements in the matter of perspective and the consequent interpretations. After all, history is simply an interpretation of a past reality as inflated and deflated by internal and external sources. What is left is never "universal." If your reference books are not written by Bulgarian historians, anthropologists, archaeologists and sociologists, then I suggest you give your ancestral academia a chance. If by "universal" history you mean the history written about Bulgaria in western literature then I would advice you to reconsider this stance. Tell me, do you feel Ethiopians are best suited to write and interpret the "universal" history of Sweden, or likewise the Swedes to do the same with respect to Malaysia? How about Englishmen and Americans writing about Bulgaria and vice-versa? Would you call it universal history if the way in which Bulgarians interpret western Europe was published in their history books? What if a Bulgarian historian wrote an entire chapter in the Encyclopaedia Britannica about how the Bulgars inflicted one defeat after another on the Crusaders, who acted in barbarous ways everywhere they went and were in no way upholding the ideals of Christianity? Do you feel that Britannica's chief editor would even dare allow such material? Is that a part of your so-called "universal" history and if not, why not? Is it because Western literature somehow chooses to omit such facts by blinding its readers with what are always naturally slanted versions of reality? Even if three people see the same event, they will always interpret it in a slightly dissimilar fashion. Now multiply that over thousands of years and you get the point. Taking this to nth degree, if a fact is maximally proven, then the way in which it is interpreted will eventually make it contestable anyway. In today's world, this same western literature is arguably the most influential in the world due to capital resources that are the pillars of its propaganda mechanisms, upon which much of history is based. In reality, just because something is said to be 'established' and 'universal' from the western perspective, does not mean it is so in other parts of the world. Based on this, I have a feeling that you don't live in Bulgaria...

This is not about personal attacks, but it's about someone who claims objectivity in the face of a subjective world. Perhaps you have academic potential, and your ability to identify truth from fiction may yet develop, but you must sink you psyche into the depths of Bulgarian literature, both ancient and modern. Then and only then, will you have the chance to truly see the meaning of neutrality. Knowing the issue from one side of the equation leads only to a disequilibrium that is anything but neutral. Please think carefully about what I have said. As stated, I will re-write all those things previously mentioned according to the guidelines of Wikipedia. Further still, I will include those things that I believe are most beneficial to the presentation of Bulgaria in the main article. Have a great day and thank you for understanding.

Somebody called Aldux keeps deleting the paragrapph about the Ottoman rule of the Bulgarian lands without giving explanation. It certainly is a very important part of Bulgarian history and I'm wondering what her motives are.

Simple; your edits are pov and I haven't seen a single source presented. So I don't see why they should stay. And when sources are presented, remember they have to be WP:RS.--Aldux 10:52, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Aldux is some kind of a maggot that unfortunately has an editing control over the Bulgarian history in Wikipedia, even thought the site is supposed to be a free site. A few months ago, I had the same problems with him (maybe her) and I am sure that s/he sleeps in front of his/her monitor and watches over our history. Whenever the e-mail comes in s/he changes the info back immediately. I swear, there is only a few minutes difference between somebody else's posting and the inevitable change from the infamous Aldux. I don't know what he looks like, but I traced his name back to Italy or Belgium.

[edit] turkish is definitely an official language of bulgaria, see this source

please do not blindly revert! See http://www.ethnologue.com/show_country.asp?name=BG --ElevatedStork 19:54, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Republic of Bulgaria. Narodna Republika Bulgaria. 7,517,973. National or official languages: Bulgarian, Turkish. Literacy rate: 90% --ElevatedStork 19:55, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Turkish is "official" in the sense of being officially locally recognized (Turks only live in compact groups in the south and northeast, and largely not elsewhere in the country, so they have local recognition of the language). The national language and the only language official in the entire country is Bulgarian. Besides, the literacy rate is 90% to 98%, although I don't see the connection and why you've bolded it :) Todor→Bozhinov 21:48, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
The constitution has something else to say. /FunkyFly.talk_ 21:49, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
According to the constitution[4]:
“
 Чл. 3. Официалният език в републиката е българският.
”
in English, this is[5]:
“
 Article 3. Bulgarian shall be the official language of the Republic.
”
No mention of Turkish, Chinese, Swahili or Samoan. Supposedly, regionally recognized languages are treated with a separate law, they're not important enough for the constitution, where the sole official language is only mentioned. Todor→Bozhinov 21:53, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
I hate to be rude, but this funny quote from a ridiculous source is too much for me to take ... even on a forum. Here is the quote: Republic of Bulgaria. Narodna Republika Bulgaria. 7,517,973. National or official languages: Bulgarian, Turkish. Literacy rate: 90% . First of all, "Narodna Republika Bulgaria" is the former, communist, name of the country. Second, you only show the 90% literacy rate. Well, your source claims: "90% to 98%". Even if you take the average of this rather large band, it is 94%, and this number is still below the true value. Only then could we discuss Turkish being an official language in Bulgaria. Well, it is not. It is an important language, and one our official institutions respect and provide some services in (e.g. a daily newscast on public TV). So, please, please, please, don't provide these kind of data again. They are laughable, and what is worse - their rebuttal just now wasted 5 minutes of my life. --Cryout 03:34, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
You shouldn't have bothered, really. User:ElevatedStork is (or should we say was) one of the numerous sockpuppets of User:Bonaparte, a banned Romanian user known for trolling and nationalist editing. The anti-Bulgarian edits of this account of his are a sort of vendetta for what happened to User:Eliade, another account of his, who insisted that the Vlachs in Bulgaria are Romanians but had no grounds to claim this. Todor→Bozhinov 12:00, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Hohohoho. Don't be ridiculous. turkish is NOT and will NEVER be an official language in our country. --Gligan 14:13, 2 November 2006 (UTC)


for the one above, turkish is not an important language, please.....Делян 23:44, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Holidays?

Hey neighbors! I've been trying to find your national holidays, and can't see them in the article. I suppose Oct. 5th would be one. Can you point me to an article or section with all your holidays? That would also be a nice element to add in this article, until the next FA nomination... •NikoSilver• 20:08, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Yasu, I'm not sure if an article exists about them here, but there's a list of Bulgarian holidays at government.bg. 5 October is not one of those, I'm afraid. I hope I can help later this week, but not tonight. --Cameltrader 21:35, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
Thanks! I am copying the text below, in case someone wishes to add that info:
1 January – New Year’s Day 
3 March –  National Holiday (Bulgaria’s Day of Liberation from the Ottoman Rule)
1 May – Labour Day
6 May – St. George’s Day, Day of the Bulgarian Army
24 May – Day of Bulgarian Enlightenment and Culture and of Slavonic Alphabet
6 September – Bulgaria’s Unification Day 
22 September – Bulgaria’s Independence Day
1 November – Enlightenment Leaders Day – a day-off for educational establishments  
24 December – Christmas Eve 
25 and 26 December – Christmas
Easter – two days (Sunday and Monday); moveable holiday
Happy editing! •NikoSilver• 10:12, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Antarctica

Okay, so I'm thinking of removing the references to Bulgaria's Antarctic base and its participation in treaties regarding Antarctica from the intro, and possibly placing them somewhere else in the article. This sort of information isn't typically included in introductions to articles, and I see no reason to make an exception here. It's just not that important when considering Bulgaria broadly. Does anyone disagree? Adlerschloß 23:29, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Apparently the country places some priority in its special involvement in Antarctica, along with 27 other nations that have a vote (and veto) in the governing of Antarctica. The website of the Bulgarian Foreign Ministry has a top entry Bulgaria - Antarctica together with Bulgaria - EU, Bulgaria - NATO, Bulgaria - UN, and Bulgaria - OSCE. Apcbg 05:50, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Today accession to EU on 1.1.07 approved

Material for changes in the article: speeches by Olli Rehn [6] and José Manuel Barroso [7] --Michkalas 15:42, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] IPA transcription

I am not certain that IPA: [bɤlˈgarijə] might be the right IPA transcription of the name of the country, "България". The "я" in "България" is unstressed, while the yodized "ъ" \jə\" only occurs – if I am not wrong – in stressed sylables as in "вървя" \vərvjə\. Apcbg 07:41, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Just to make it clear, is "IPA: [bɤlˈgariə]" what you propose instead? --Cameltrader 08:34, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
I believe that the linguists ought to offer the educated judgement on this one, mine is just an opinion. The version IPA: [bɤlˈgariə] doesn't appeal to me either. Perhaps in this article should appear a more formal transcription like IPA: [bəlˈgarija], as it is indeed pronounced on some official occasions, recitings etc. In common speech the pronunciation varies with the ending possibly IPA: [-iɤ] but unlikely IPA: [-iə]. But again, this is just an opinion. Apcbg 09:38, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
Once, there was a lengthy discussion in Talk:Bulgarian language#Vowel_Chart on similar issues, and in particular the distinction between ram's horns (/ɤ/) and the schwa (/ə/). In my amateur opinion, the schwa is the only vowel closest to ъ. Maybe there was a mistake in the chart then, because I've seen the ram's horns in two different places on the chart (one of them closer to "o"). But you definitely have to mark the difference between the stressed and unstressed "a" — Bulgarian is quite different from, say, French, in which stress doesn't noticeably modify tenseness, openess, etc. Such ambiguities are not uncommon, and I was also thinking about proposing a special template for Bulgarian IPA transcriptions, so that we can easily fix them all, once we have a policy. But anyway, we need experts... --Cameltrader 10:52, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Italics in Cyrillics

A guideline on whether or not to italicize Cyrillics (and all scripts other than Latin) is being debated at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (text formatting)#Italics in Cyrillic and Greek characters. - - Evv 16:13, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Municipalities

I think it is high time to create articles for all or at least some of the municipalities of the country. BUT it would be nice if someone downloads a map of municipalities of Bulgaria, so that their location can be showed, as it is for the serbian municipalities. I cannot download anything so please help. --Gligan 18:37, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Err, not sure about that. We can't determine exactly which municipalities are notable and which aren't in most cases. Also, the way I proceed with municipalities is write about them in a section on the town article, just as it is with Serbian municipalities (which you gave as an example), because I don't ever think most of them would ever grow larger than a list of places + population/area data (i.e. they wouldn't ever take up more than a paragraph or two). You can see my idea for dealing with this at Sredets or Pleven.
Now, there's also these municipalities which lack a municipal centre (like Dobrichka municipality, which includes the villages around Dobrich, but the city itself is a municipality of its own. Other peculiar cases include Rodopi municipality and Maritsa municipality of Plovdiv Province, Tundzha municipality of Yambol Province... there could be more. These do deserve an article of their own, just because we can't effectively assign them to a specific other article as a section in the same manner as those which have an administrative centre.
Do you like my idea? Todor→Bozhinov 12:08, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

All right, sounds good. I like the your idea for Sredets, it should be therefore applied for the other cities and towns. In the Bulgarian version there are maps of the regions with municipalities, I wonder is there a way to be downloaded in the English version? I tried but without success. I think it would be useful for the articles for provinces to have those maps (up to now only Blagoevgrad Province has one). --Gligan 16:59, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it's perfectly possible, but the names of places on the maps are in Bulgarian and need to be transliterated. I can deal with it, I think :) I'll also include a "munimap" (or something) parameter in {{Infobox Province of Bulgaria}}, so we could have it in the infobox. Todor→Bozhinov 09:11, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Oldest European country?

Nai starata strana v Evropa? Malko ste se poizhvurlili mai a? Gurciq ne e li po stara? Da ne govorim che 5 veka ni e nqmalo na kartata. Prosto ne razbiram kvo se ima predvid s takova izrechenie? (Posted by 81.242.188.29)

You may wish to see the maps
The state of Byzantium existing at that time was not Greece. Apcbg 20:47, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
Exactly... neither was Byzantium Greece nor can be the ancient poleis considered a single state. And I think you should drop this pessimism and stuff, we should be proud of what we are, not deny it without even considering it. Todor→Bozhinov 16:49, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
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