Talk:Bukusu people

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Should Silikwa redirect to Sirikwa, maybe? - Mustafaa 19:48, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Sirikwa is nice! Yes, redirect it — in fact I just did it. Sirikwa seems to be the more common name. Those r/l alternations... — mark ✎

I've just written Terik and it is interesting to read what this article says about the 'Kalenjin' in the light of what the Kalenjin Terik say about the (Bukusu and Logoli) Luhya. Incidentally, this article really needs a good NPOV treatment and a thorough copyedit, which is why I slapped the cleanup tag on it. Sources would be nice also :) (see Cite your sources). — mark ✎ 20:52, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I've even been thinking about the POV-tag, since it seems to be written mainly from a Bukusu point of view, but maybe it's not that bad. It's an interesting read anyway, and clearly written by someone who knows what he is talking about. Let's see what a cleanup does. — mark ✎ 20:56, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] On Silikwa and the POV

On Silikwa: There are two different pronunciations of the L/R among the Bukusu (as with many bantu groups in Kenya). Among the Western Bukusu (from the Uganda border up to Bungoma town), you find almost no 'R' in their speech, especially in place names and other nouns. This pattern is repeated among the Gisu and Masaaba of Eastern Uganda, as well as the Baganda. Among the Eastern Bukusu (mainly around Webuye town, north towards Kitale and in bukusu diaspora in the neighbouring Kakamega and Uasin Gishu districts), one finds a clear differentiation between 'L' and 'R'. This may be due to the influence of the other Luhya tribes found in these areas, principally the Tachoni, Kabras and Maragoli.

On the POV: A good, objective edit would be welcome. I have run through it severally, but I am Bukusu and some things I may not "see"!

--Osiris 05:31, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for adding references, and thanks for the nice explanation of the r/l-alternation in this area. It's really great to have you here. Incidentally, the article says that the Bukusu were called 'Kitosh' at one time by the neighbouring Kalenjin. First, why did they despise being called so? Secondly, which Kalenjin subgroup are we talking about: the Terik people, living to the east of the Tiriki and Logoli Luhya groups; or maybe the Nandi; or the Pok and Bong'om of the Mount Elgon area, speakers of Elgon languages?

I'm curious as to your thoughts about the POV of Terik people. Does that article provide a fair treatment of the matters? — mark ✎ 06:42, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

'Kitosh' directly translates to "mud" in LuBukusu. The Kalenjin meaning is similar: it stands for "people of the ground". This has been taken to mean, variously, "the farming people" (as the Bukusu were sedentary pastoralists practising a lot of agriculture), and also "people of the lowlands", as the area the Bukusu occupied was the lowlands to the west of the Cherengany hills - which were occupied by the Kalenjin. Bukusu elders around 1940, however, campaigned against the term on the grounds that it was derisive, especially since the Kalenjin traditionally despised agriculture. And hence the dislike of the term "Kitosh". The Kalenjin group in question here is undoubtedly the Nandi: the Pok and the Bong'om (after whom the town of Bungoma is named) were traditionally quite close to the Bukusu. To the present day, in most of the areas occupied by the Pok and the Bong'om, LuBukusu is widely spoken by the locals.

Wanyonyi 09:51, 14 July 2005 (UTC)