Talk:Buenos Aires Province

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[edit] Moved

Why was Buenos Aires Province moved to Buenos Aires (province)??? I really don't see the point. The spanish name of Provincia de Buenos Aires is correctly translated to Buenos Aires province. Should we move it back? -Mariano 07:48, July 11, 2005 (UTC)

The reason I moved it is because I find it better to have it as "Buenos Aires (province)", because, this way, we can omit the word "province" if needed. That way we would avoid the construction [[Buenos Aires Province|Buenos Aires]] every time we don't want to mention the word "province" but want to refer to the province instead of the city.

What? you still have the province word in the title, and still need to bypass it!!!!!

Another reason why I moved it is becuase there would be more consistency with other names of provinces where the article name doesn't include the word "province".

What?? Only Jujuy and Entre Ríos did not have the word Province. The rest, ALL OF THEM had Province, with capital P in it.

And besides that, if you translate the expression "Provincia de Buenos Aires" literally, you would have to capitalize the word "province" in English, so it looks like "Buenos Aires Province" instead of "Buenos Aires province". 2004-12-29T22:45Z 22:24, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

Which was how it was? All the provinces have capital P.

I know you didn't mean wrong, but I really think we should move this back to Buenos Aires Province, as well as Chaco Province. -Mariano 11:51, July 12, 2005 (UTC)

The reason I moved it is because you have to type less words when linking. 2004-12-29T22:45Z 15:33, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Oh, come on, man. I don't care why you move it, but don't write nonseses. Buenos Aires (province) has 2 more characters than Buenos Aires Province. And I still think it should be without parethesis. As the names of the provinces have the word province itself, I believe it should be with Province, and without parenthesis. Examples in Wikipedia: Category:Provinces of Chile, Category:Provinces of Italy, Category:Japanese prefectures, and many others. -Mariano 16:30, July 12, 2005 (UTC)

What I mean is, if you type [[Buenos Aires Province|Buenos Aires]] instead of [[Buenos Aires (province)|]], then that's two more words, five instead of three. You can use the vertical bar (|) instead of typing "Buenos Aires" twice. That's the reason. It's more economical when you want to type the name of the province without the word "Province".

And if you really don't care why I moved it, as you said in the paragraph above, then I don't understand why you asked why I moved the article at the beginning of this page. If you really don't care why I moved the page, then just don't even bother to ask.

As counter-examples I give you Category:U.S. states and Category:Canadian provinces and territories. For example, the article about Nebraska is not called "State of Nebraska" but just "Nebraska". The article about New Brunswick is not called "Province of New Brunswick", it's called "New Brunswick", and so on.

What I meant above is, if you want to display the words "Buenos Aires" instead of "Buenos Aires Province", and, at the same time, link to the article about the province, not the city, then you have to type more, and it's not just two characters, it's two words. And the problem is not just with the name of the article about the Provincia de Buenos Aires, but with all other analogous names. It means you have to type the word "Province" every single time you want to refer to a province, but not display the word "Province".

And if you think that what I write is nonsense, then don't bother to waste your time by reading it anyway. 2004-12-29T22:45Z 17:59, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't know you could use [[Buenos Aires (province)|]] and I didn't undestand what you were trying to say. Yet I still believe the name should be as the article starts Buenos Aires Province. It's uniform to (almost all) the existing provinces. About your examples, Canada doesn't use brackets, and the only US state to use them is Georgia (a very common name). See New York (disambiguation), which has no brackets.

All in all, I don't think your reasons were enough to change the name and a convention between Argentine provinces without consulting it. -Mariano 09:23, July 13, 2005 (UTC)

There is no convention, since there are three provinces in the Argentinian-province category that don't have the word "Province", including La Pampa, Jujuy and Entre Ríos. More uniformity is needed, because else the titles of the articles are counter-intuitive when someone wants to link to them.

I'll give you an example: There was an editor of the Club Atlético Banfield article (User:Fedemw) who wrote a list of affiliate association-football clubs of the Club Atlético Banfield. Those affiliate clubs are in different provinces, so the editor hyperlinked the names of the provinces to what he thought would be the corresponding article names. But, in reality, he linked various names to the names of the same-name cities instead of the provinces, for example Santiago del Estero, the city, instead of Santiago del Estero, the province, or Buenos Aires, the city, instead of Buenos Aires, the province. That's because the article titles are counter-intuitive.

So I was trying to repair the links but saw that there's no uniformity. That's why I moved the articles about the provinces of Buenos Aires and Chaco.

Now the reason there are not many article titles with parentheses in the examples I stated above (U.S. and Canada) is that there is not much need for disambiguation there. But, in the case of the Argentinian provinces, there are various cities, especially province capitals, that have provinces with the same names. So there should be more uniformity. All the articles about provinces should have the same title format, for example "X Province" or "X (province)".

Another thing I don't like about the format "X Province" is that the word "Provincia" gets translated, while the real names of the provinces in Spanish are like "Provincia de X". So I personally would prefer to see the non-translated versions than the translated ones. For example, I'd rather see the article name "Provincia de Buenos Aires" than "Buenos Aires Province", because the translation to Engish sounds way too artificial and synthetic. But, since we are in the English Wikipedia, then I'd rather see the words "Province" or "Provincia" dropped completely.

So that's why I also think the format "X Province" should be changed to "X (province)", so users don't get forced to display the English translation ("X Province"), but just the Spanish name without the words "Province" or "Provincia" ("X"). So then, if they wanna say "Provincia" or "Province" or "province" after or before the name of the province, they can add it themselves as an option, not an obligation. And, then, the hyperlink would still direct the readers to the article about the corresponding province instead of the article about the namesake city, even if the two have the same name. They would just have to add "(province)" to the link name and they could make that part in the displayed text invisible to the reader if they added a vertical bar after the right parenthesis. So inthe text it would still look like "X" instead of "X (province)". Then, if they wanna say "X Province" or "X province" or "Provincia de X" or "Provincia del X", they can still do it as an option, but they're not forced to do it.

That's another reason why users are allowed to use parentheses at the end of article names, so they don't have to display the part inside the parentheses when they hyperlink to a certain article. 2004-12-29T22:45Z 18:33, 13 July 2005 (UTC).

I get your point, and I agree on homogenisation. I'll start a voting in the Argentine Board Talk Page. -Mariano 07:25, July 14, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Largest province

I will remove that statement because the province of Tierra del Fuego, Antarctica, and South Atlantic Islands -even though actually consists of Tierra del Fuego only- is supposed to be much larger.--Cloviz 17:35, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] inside ??

the Buenos Aires city is not inside the province territory. Jor70 13:08, 24 September 2006 (UTC)