Talk:Breakdance

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article has been cited as a source by a media outlet. See the 2004 press source article for details. "Hip-hop dance history" (January 28, 2004). San Jose Mercury News. [1].

Portal	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Dance, which collaborates on Dance and related subjects. To participate, help improve this article or visit the project page for details on the project.
Start	This article has been rated as start-Class on the quality scale.

This article is part of WikiProject Hip hop, an ongoing effort to improve articles related to hip hop culture and hip hop music. The goal of the project is to bring this article, along with all others to featured status. If you have any questions, concerns or wish to participate you can visit the main project page here.

Contents 1 Article needs to be protected 2 Smurfing 3 Gymnastics and Breakdancing 4 Huge cleanup 5 NPOV 6 History 7 BBoying 8 Fashion 9 List keeps growing 10 Move to breakdance? 11 Correct Title: "B-boying / B-girling" 12 Video clips 13 Viktor Kabachenko? 14 Too much emphasis on korean crews 15 YouTube links 16 WHEN WAS BREAKDANCING ORIGINATED

[edit] Article needs to be protected

This article must be locked. A certain user, "Langtoner", keeps spamming a commercial link to "bboy.org" to promote his personal site/product which violates the Five Pillars of Wikipedia (#1: Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and not a directory of links. ). The user "Langtoner" is charged with repeated offenses according to the history of this article. This user must therefore be blocked by a SysOp.

[edit] Smurfing

I started out, for reasons too boring to go into, at Smurf (disambiguation). And I seemed to remember Smurfing was a style of movement involved with body popping - something I used to do quite a bit of two decades ago. Am I remembering correctly? --bodnotbod 22:14, Jul 17, 2004 (UTC)

• Yes, smurfing or the smurf walk is a silly walk that looks kind of like gliding forward while walking, supposedly like a smurf. It should be added to Popping (dance) which needs a major revision btw. Arru 02:19, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Gymnastics and Breakdancing

Gymnasts also do flares on flat ground (not on the pommel horse). Breakdancers who aren't formally trained in gymnastics will usually "cheat" on their flares by not sustaining a constant position for the two hands on the ground. Thus, making it impossible to do pommel horse flares using these cheating flares. But still, it's all about style anyway... not power.

Gymnasts also spell the move as "flairs" while B-boys spell the move "flares". There are other very minor differences in form and technique, but the fundamental skill is visible in both.

[edit] Huge cleanup

Tried doing a cleanup of the article. Please check my work and look at the facts. I am not sure about the origin and the etymology so check the references. Somebody has to check the etymology. It seems that there are many histories explaining the words b-boy, breaking, etc. I think it would be a nice reading with a little more editing/adding of text. Thechamelon 20:32, Apr 16, 2005 (UTC) Re-edit of Thechamelon 13:25, Apr 19, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV

Just curious, the NPOV tag is on this page but I don't see any disputes discussed here. Can someone fill me in?

REEDIT: Looks like this refers to the changes by TheChameleon explained above. Please be patient as I'm still learning my way around Wikis and just surfed over here out of curiosity.  :-) Isn't there a way to request peer review without using the POV tag? I thought I saw that somewhere....

PhilipR 16:01, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, good idea... Guess I'm a bigger beginner than you PhilipR... Put it to peer review please, I can't right now. Thechamelon 20:00, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

Guys, see Wikipedia:Peer_review. I'm removing the NPOV tag and following the guidelines for Peer review. I don't what you want to clean up though, so I'll let you submit the request (click the "a request has been made" link up top). --Covracer http://home.earthlink.net/~covracer 11:46, May 26, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] History

There are so many histories on the "beginning" of breakdance. Instead of many people writing their own understanding, maybe we should list the facts (meaning evidence)? Some argue whether breakdance is based on other artforms or developed on its own. (I'm not sure of anything anymore....:) Instead of interpret quotes and info from 3rd parties, we should maybe quote directly from the famous b-boys and books? Then readers can interpret themselves. Just a thought... Thechamelon 09:40, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

Hi! The story about the RockSteady Crew being formed by a brazilian capoeira mestre is false. I think its not respectful for them to give wrong information about their origins. Quote: "THE CREATION OF THE ROCK STEADY CREW Written by Joe-Joe, The Original B.Boy, Rock Steady Crew '77

Founded in 1977, the crew's original name was the "Untouchable Four B.Boys". It consisted of four members, Joe-Joe, Easy-Mike, Jimmy-Dee, and P.Body 170th. However, the demands of recruits enabled them to reconsider and look past the four-member title of restricted membership. As a result, a meeting was held in Echo Place, Bronx, NY, at the residence of Jamie White [AKA Jimmy-Dee]. It was there that the ROCK STEADY name was born despite the initial idea of creating an extra crew to extend the "Untouchable Four B.Boys". "

This is an excerpt from the history of the Rocksteady Crew. Clearly we see no Capoeira mestre there, just some NYC kids.

You can find the RSC history at Mr Wiggles (one of RSC members, he is also in the Electric Bogaloo and was in the Magnificent Force back in the days, he was there when breakin and popping were being born so I think his word has got credibility) homepage http://www.mrwiggles.biz/hip_hop_timeline.htm

Also I find incorrect the many references to Capoeira that are included in the history of B.boyin´. Quoting again Mr Wiggles from http://www.mrwiggles.biz/misconceptions_of_hip_hop.htm : "-BBOYING WAS TAUGHT TO A GROUP OF YOUNG LATINOS BY A CAPOERA MAESTRO IN THE 70'S (CAPOEIRA IS A FORM OF MARTIAL ARTS, CREATED BY AFRICAN SLAVES AND DISGUISED AS A DANCE IN BRAZIL)." WHILE I DO AGREE THAT BBOYIN WAS INDIRECTLY INSPIRED BY THIS AFRICAN ART FORM. AND BBOYING DEFINITELY HAS ITS ROOTS IN AFRICAN DANCE. BUT I HAVEN'T MET A LATIN BBOY FROM BACK IN THE DAYS THAT CAN EVEN PRONOUNCE THE WORD CAPOEIRA. (MAN I CAN'T EVEN SPELL IT) THE STORY THAT BEST SIZES THIS ARGUMENT UP WAS A QUESTION POSED TO TWO OF OUR FOUR FATHERS OF BBOYIN "THE NIGGA TWINS", WHEN ASKED WHY DON'T YOU GUYS ( THE NIGGA TWINS ) GIVE CREDIT TO CAPOEIRA??? AND THERE REPLY WAS. I NEVER MET THIS GUY CAPOEIRA THAT YOUR TALKIN ABOUT BUT IF YOU BRING HIM TO ME ILL SEE IF I RECOGNIZE HIM. "

Having learnt both Capoeira and Breakin (although I´m into Breakin´ now, only), I can tell you that the apparent similitudes between both aren´t that great. Sure, both are played or danced in a circle. That´s logical, since when you´re breakin´, people are watching you, and the logical shape the people will form is a circle, since it allows most people to watch who is dancing. Music from Capoeira and Breakin´ have nothing in common. Headspins, Peu di Mao/90´s and some other of the few analogous moves between both aren´t done in the same way. In breakin´ the emphasis is put on doing the move the longest time, most difficult and flashiest way possible. This is the basis for the continual developing of breakin´, since everyone is striving to find new ways to do moves or whole new moves (which is more difficult). Instead capoeira has its set of moves, and you can´t move further from there. Take for instance an invert. Some b.boys now are doing inverts with their legs on lotus position because its a lot more difficult and amazing than a regular invert. In Capoeira you can´t really make up your own Invert! You must stick with the regular invert because that´s what a capoeira invert should look like. I hope you find my point. In fact I find that breakin´ has more moves similar to those of Kung Fu than to Capoeira. Based on these reasons I´m deleting the references to Capoeira and Mestre Jelon Vieira, since Breakin´ developed on its own from a number of influences, of which capoeira wasn´t that important, and its association with it (capoeira) is damaging the reputation of B.boyin Old Schoolers, making them look like simple imitators, when they created the most important urban dance style of the XX century. If someone doesn´t agree with this, please tell me why. Also state if you´re a Capoeirista or B.boy please. Violenciafriki 2:26 21 July 2005

Nice of you explaining it. I am not a master of b-boy history, just thaught it would be more wikipedic not to edit big sections without an explanation. I have heard and seen *many* explanations and histories on the subject, but you argue well.. :) From now on, I hope everyone editing will have references supporting their view... Thechamelon 10:45, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, sorry for the first time when I deleted a section without explanation... i´m newbie at wikipedia so I didn´t know about the talk page... :) Violenciafriki 01:52, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

The concept that breaking emanated from the suburbs isn't very accurate, right? Worn down urban areas like Bronx in the 70s weren't suburbs by any definition. What to write instead? Arru 19:51, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Hey all; I'm currently reading P.T. Barnum's autobiography Struggles and Triumphs (1872 edition) in which he refers to the dancing part of a negro song-and-dance routine as the "break down"--is there any linguistic or stylistic connection here? acdavis 18:50, 7 August 2006

[edit] BBoying

Is it B-Boying or is it just misspelled and really just boying?

I searched on Google, and "b-boy" returned many more hits than "bboy". "B-boying" and "bboying" returned about the same. Both have been used in this article but "b-boy" was used the most, so I decided to change all "bboy" into "b-boy" and "bboying" into "b-boying". - Wintran 16:17, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

• I have a thing with the word b-boying, when used a synonym for breakdancing – the whole culture – it becomes a bit sexist because it's like, where are the b-girls in all this? Any comments on this? Arru 01:40, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

I've never heard of bboying before reading this article. Seems the first sentence should read, "Breakdancing, otherwise known as bboying...". Thoughts? Azlib77 03:34, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, definitely. It used to be like that but was changed a few days ago. I've reverted the change back to how it used to be, and if the one who made the change doesn't agree please discuss on this talk page. - Wintran ^(talk) 08:57, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fashion

First off, i´d like to explain that I removed a part of the article talking about goth and punk b.boys incorporating contortionist tricks into b.boying. This is CLEARLY not accurate, since other b.boys such as Ben-J from Division Alpha or Xzoob from Ground Zero Crew were incorporating contortionist tricks before these b.boys you´re talking about were known in the scene. Also I´d like to suggest the rewriting of that part of the article. IMO, it should stress what the classical b.boy fashion is, noting that it´s mostly based around comfortable clothes for dancing. It may also contain a reference to goth or punk influence in b.boy fashion, but not in the way it is now, since in it´s actual form it gives the impression to the profane that some b.boys decided to stop using traditional b.boying fashion and started imitating goths or punks to "feel different". I do believe that it would be more accurate to say that b.boying can appeal to any kind of young boy/girl (even goth, punk, industrial music fan, etc), even when he isn´t the stereotypical hip-hop fan (i.e. dressing in tribal, ecko gear), just because the huge potential for artistic expression it has. So we could show that b.boying knows no boundaries related to race, sex, nationality or even musical tastes. I´m speaking about this from a personal experience, because i was first introduced to b.boying by a heavy metal guitarist and singer who also happened to dance, and I myself, have always been inclined to punk aesthetics.

• This is an important point, together with the section on music that (totally accurately) says that breaking music is not typically modern hip hop, and many other styles work fine for breakdancing. Arru 01:21, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Also, could someone give some basis for the name "otaku b.boys"? I´ve heard about the term "e-boy" or "internet b.boy" to refer to people who seem to care more about talking in internet fori about "famous" b.boys than dancing. But "otaku b.boys"? Never heard of it.Violenciafriki 21:41, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

• Check out otaku. It's basically a japanese geek, and seems a likely word used mostly by japanese

when refering to "internet b-boys".Arru 01:21, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] List keeps growing

Examples of major crews are the Zulu Nation, Rock Steady Crew (RSC), Style Elements, Furious Styles Crew, Dynamic Rockers, Problems Kru, Ichigeki, Repstyles, Team OHH, Fireworks, Havikoro, The Furious Five, Full Force, Battle Monkeys, Knucklehead Zoo, Renegades, Killafornia, Vagabonds, Expression Crew, Drifters, Rivers, Maximum, T.I.P., Gamblers, Pockemon, Wanted, Fantastik Armada and Airforce Crew.

People are treating this as a comprehensive list and adding their own personal favorites, so it's growing out of control. If it gets any longer it will have to be moved to List of breakdancing crews or something. —Keenan Pepper 14:01, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I agree. Thechamelon 16:42, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Move to breakdance?

How about moving this article to breakdance? Google gives 5 180 000 hits on "breakdance" compared to 1 310 000 on "breakdancing". Wintran 20:14, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

I've now performed the move. Please discuss here if you don't agree. Wintran 12:32, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Articles are generally placed under noun titles, and I've always heard "breakdancing" used as the noun for the form, while "breakdance" is the verb of performing it, i.e. He breakdanced or I learned to breakdance vs. They were breakdancing in the street. Google may show more results for breakdance, but I doubt that they're using it as a noun. I'd say move it back, and make sure to use WP:RM Night Gyr (talk/Oy) 06:29, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Actually, judging from various dictionaries and websites, it seems like breakdance and breakdancing are nearly synonymous and can both be used as nouns and verbs.

I personally use the terms like this:

• To breakdance (verb)
• I was breakdancing (verb)
• Breakdance moves (noun)
• To dance breakdance (noun)

I still say we go for "breakdance" as the title, judging from its hits on Google. Also notice how most other languages on Wikipedia use "breakdance" as the main article title. Wintran 15:01, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

• I agree, breakdance has been labeled as more colloquial or "commercial", but it is no doubt the most commonly used name. Arru 15:25, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Correct Title: "B-boying / B-girling"

"Breakdance" is incorrect terminology. It is not correct to refer to someone as a "breakdancer" or that he/she is "breakdancing". The term "breakdance" was the product of a mistake made by a journalist in the early 80s. The correct term is that somebody is a "b-boy" or "b-girl" and that they are "b-boying/b-girling" (against what most people think the "B" in "B-boy/B-girl" does not stand for "breakdancing" it stands for just "break"). Therefore, the title of this article should become "B-boying / B-girling". I thought I should throw this out and see what others think before I actually make the change.

Here's a reference just incase nobody believes me: [2] Another more reliable reference would be the "Bboy Foundations" film (One of the best B-Boy teaching videos ever made). At the end they state that "Breakdance" is a misnomer.

aryazand 03:22, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it's generally believed among breakers that the term "breakdance" was not originally used. However, today, both the general public and breakers themselves use this term in their everyday language. We need to keep in mind that Wikipedia should reflect how our language is being used today, and though the alternatives should be presented, the focus should not be what is considered correct or how we want it to be.

I definitely believe this article should explain how the term breakdance first appeared and that it's disliked by many breakers, but I still believe the title should be "breakdance". Wintran 13:33, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

• Agree - correct or not, "breakdance" is the word used today by nearly all non-breakers and some of those who practice it too. Arru 10:31, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Additionally, "b-boying-/girling" is unfortunate because if you think that girls can break too you'll have to alternate the two or say "b-person" - which I doubt a proponent of the b-words would like to do. Arru 10:42, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Video clips

• The video clips section was recently removed. I support this because it worked like a web directory - only links to general breakdance video sites. However: in other street dance articles it has become necessary to supply a few direct links to individual video clips of what can be considered good examples of the particular dance style. Apart from those involved, most people have very limited knowledge of what state of the art street dance styles look like. I think it is not sufficient to just direct them to "the web", when a YouTube search for breakdance yields the famous David Elsewhere clip on the first page along with several bedroom breakdance attempts. Readers may know how to use the internet, but they won't all know what good breakdancing looks like - that's why they came here in the first place. Arru 10:31, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree, and I think we should focus on a few high-quality video clips, that really show off breakdancing at its best, preferably without too much focus on specific people or groups (though there might be exceptions if the clip is famous/good enough). It would be nice to have examples of both 1 on 1, crew battles and shows. One I can think of right away is the Red Bull BC One 2005 competition highlights which is beautifully filmed and edited, with some very nice 1 on 1 battles. It does, however, contain a (great) locking show by Hilty and Bosch, which might be confusing as it's not breakdance, but maybe that's okay anyway. - Wintran ^(talk) 12:45, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Viktor Kabachenko?

What's the Viktor Kabachenko youth? Why haven't I ever heard of it in the history of hip hop culture? Is this another promotion of a fringe version of dance history?

Without some reference (it's redlinked at the time of writing) it doesn't say anything to readers, either way. Remove? Arru 10:20, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Too much emphasis on korean crews

There is WAY Too much emphasis on korean crews. Famous crews does not only include teams from Korea. Please.

[edit] YouTube links

This article is one of thousands on Wikipedia that have a link to YouTube in it. Based on the External links policy, most of these should probably be removed. I'm putting this message on the talk page, to request the regular editors take a look at the link and make sure it doesn't violate policy. In short: 1. 99% of the time YouTube should not be used as a source. 2. We must not link to material violating someone's copyright. If you are not sure whether the link on this article should be removed or if you would like to help spread this message, contact us on User talk:J.smith/YouTube Linklist. Thanks, ---J.S (t|c) 00:51, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WHEN WAS BREAKDANCING ORIGINATED

I am doing a paper on breakdancing and I cant find the time period that Breakdancing originated from????? CAN SOMEONE PLEASE FIGURE IT OUT AND ADD IT TOO THE PAGE.... THANKS —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.58.80.183 (talk) 01:59, 13 December 2006 (UTC).