Talk:Brazilian national anthem

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Songs, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to songs on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.

This anthem represents some of the worse burilating aspects of Parnasianism, a style that was in vogue at the time. The first verse is so complicated that even most Brazilians don't really know the real meaning of it. As it stands, it should be noted that "do I(Y)piranga" actually modifies "as margens plácidas", something that in standard Portuguese is completely unwarranted by that word-order. -- Wtrmute

I believe that is called "sinédoque" in Portuguese grammar, i.e. an extreme inversion of normal word order. In standard Portuguese, one would say:

As margens plácidas do Ipiranga ouviram um brado retumbante de um povo heróico.

The anthem on the other hand has:

Ouviram do Ipiranga as margens plácidas de um povo heróico um brado retumbante.

Although I actually happen to enjoy the anthem's music, I agree that the lyrics are totally incomprehensible to most modern-day Brazilians, not only because of its complex syntax, but also because of the abundant use of archaic words ('lábaro', 'garrida','impávido', etc..).I am not aware though of any serious proposals to change the lyrics. Besides, I doubt any proposed changes to the lyrics would gain support in Brazil. Mbruno 13:58, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] About the translation

What was exactly the problem with the translation beside the original lyrics? Can I put it back? --FernandoAires 15:32, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

I just submited a translation prepared by the Brazilian Embassy in London. Also changed the design of the page based on the one used in the translation of the Portuguese National Anthem --Leandroluso 04:27, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

I have tried to clean up the translation quite a bit, since it did not seem to have been proofed by a native English speaker. I opted for 'thou' throughout since someone had already chosen that for at least part of it and 'tu' is archaic or literary in modern Brazilian Portuguese, but I wouldn't object to 'you' throughout either; it was just the mix that was not acceptable. I tried to leave as much as possible of the previous draft, but I'm still not crazy about 'star-spangled banner' as that phrase is so exclusively attached to the US flag in English. Does anyone have a definition of 'lábaro'? —Meliorist 17:57, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

"Lábaro" means flag. This word is commonly used to refer to the Roman Empire Army's standard, after the convertion to Christianism. --FernandoAires 16:23, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

An unregistered user, perhaps not a native English speaker, proposed translating 'nosso peito' very literally as 'our chests.' I am not convinced. The word 'breast' is used in the sense of 'chest' in figurative or poetic contexts, as here, meaning the seat of certain emotions; it does not only mean 'seio.' Conversely, 'chest' is primarily used literally, and could easily be misunderstood as a large wooden box, so it would sound strange to say that a chest defied something. (It still sounds a bit strange, but not as much.) Also, according to my dictionary, 'peito' has a second figurative meaning of 'courage,' which is why I added the adjective. There may still be a better solution, but it should be in idiomatic English. —Meliorist 00:34, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikisource

Isn't this article more apropriate for wikisource? Just wondering. PHF 04:27, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] First verse

As said above, and according to the official site of the Brazilian Government [1], the first verse is "Ouviram do Ipiranga as margens plácidas". Also, I think that the English translation could be changed to reflect that. --Dpc01 02:43, 10 December 2006 (UTC)