Talk:Bram Stoker

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Bram Stoker was selected as the Portal of Horror Horror-related biography of the month for July 2006.

Contents 1 Origins of Dracula 2 Was Stoker gay? 3 Florence Balcombe 4 Vampire novels 5 Nosferatu 6 Death 7 religion

[edit] Origins of Dracula

In 1890 he met the Hungarian professor Arminius Vanbéry, who told him the legend of the Romanian prince Vlad Tepes, better known as Dracula. This person became Count Dracula the vampire in Stoker's fictional novel. In the same year Bram started to write his book Dracula, which he finished 7 years later. For his book he studied the culture and religion of the people on the Balkan and explored the life of the historical person Vlad Tepes.

The Dracula article contradicts almost everything in this paragraph. --Paul A 01:41, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Was Stoker gay?

Is an academic analysis of Dracula's very obscure supposedly homoerotic themes sufficient evidence to label Stoker as a homosexual or bisexual? Is there any biographical evidence? -Willmcw 05:05, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC)

Given that Dracula is a monsterus villain it might just as well be used to support the theory that Stoker was homophobic (not that I think he was either mind you) -Adventuresofthestarkiller 03:53, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I have removed the paragraph dealing with Schaffer's homoerotic interpretation of Dracula. This is a controversial interpretation of the work from a literary perspective and even more questionable as a commentary on Stoker's life. As it was the only reference to literary interpretation in the article I don't think its inclusion was consistent with NPOV. This material would be better suited to the Dracula entry.

I think this article in general dwells overmuch on Dracula, so I hope someone who knows more about Stoker's life and other works can make additions to those areas. CKarnstein 20:10, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

I have yet to read a biography (credible or otherwise) that suggested he was homosexual. It would seem unlikely given there isn't any evidence outside of a modern, controversial interpretation of Dracula. His marriage to Florence and the fathering of a child would further militate against the possibility.

Besides the homoerotic literary interpretation of Dracula, some see it subconscious in Stoker's hero worship of the poet Walt Whitman (whom Stoker thanked for the love and sympathy given him "in common with my kind") and the actor Henry Irving. — Walloon 07:28, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

There were and are a lot people that hold Whitman and his work in the highest regard that are straight. He was particularily popular in that era. — 63.167.159.217 13:23, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Certainly, it's not unusual to write a letter of admiration to a writer one likes. It's that "in common with my kind" that has people wondering what he was saying to Whitman. — Walloon

I think you are reading way to much into that phase. Too often we let 21st-century views interpret 19th-century concepts. "My kind" could have been anything - a man, a student, a poetry lover, et al. — 63.167.159.217 12:53, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

re His marriage to Florence and the fathering of a child would further militate against the possibility. Consider the how a homosexual would have been treated at that time being married and having a child would have been a good idea

[edit] Florence Balcombe

Was his wife's maiden name Balcome or Balcombe? It is spelled "Balcome" in the Oscar Wilde article. -- Robertbyrne 20:11, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Vampire novels

Despite the claim, Dracula was not the first. It was preceded about ten years earlier by Camilla, also the first novel to feature a female vampire, allegedly based on the Countess Barothy. --K D Faber

[edit] Nosferatu

With "Nosferatu", the vampire film has come full circle from creature of dread to the sex object of "Fright Night" & back, with occasional digressions into the absurd, with Leslie Nielson and George Hamilton (the only Dracula with a perfect tan--though David Boreanaz's Angel might qualify there, too, the only one on the set of a sun lotion commercial). --K D Faber

[edit] Death

Nothing in here about his death. I seem to remember he died in poverty and his work wasn't recognised until later.--Crestville 12:45, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

He died in London. The first movie based on Dracula was made a decade after his death. Dragix 20:58, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] religion

regarding this sentence:

He was a member of the Church of Ireland and attended the Clontarf parish church (St John the Baptist) at Seafield Road.

It was added by an anon user who was doing the same for other people on Wikipedia from the same church. I imagine the anon user personally is affiliated with the Church in some way and happens to know this bit of trivia. The problem is it leaves a lot of unanswered questions - was he religious, or did he go occasionally on holidays - is this significant or not? What exactly is Stokers religious background? If you are going to mention it then it needs to be clarified, otherwise it can leave the impression that he was a pious church-going person when he really wasn't (I don't know). -- Stbalbach 13:08, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I disagree that mentioning his church membership, and the particular church he attended, implies that he was "a pious church-going person". It is not necessary to go into making judgements about how often he went to church (that information is probably not available), and how personally religious he was (probably no one's business). For an Irishman in the 19th century, one's church affiliation in itself was a social indicator. My only quibble with including the information about his church membership is that it should be placed less awkwardly within the present article. — Walloon 16:17, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Many facts lead to implications. We can't go around removing facts because we aren't sure what inferences might be drawn from them. As for this fact, the religion of a subject is undoubtedly relevant in a biography. If there is more info to add about his religious beliefs then we should add it, but we shouldn't erase all mention because we don't know if it's comprehensive. I agree with Walloon that it could be placed less awkwardly. -Will Beback 19:26, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I found one reference on google that said his parents were members of the Church of Ireland, so we can assume he was born into the Church of Ireland and attended that church as a child. -- Stbalbach 21:44, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

That's a good change. Since he lived in London in his later years he was obviously not a life-long member of the parish. -Will Beback 22:42, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

From Dracula's Crypt: Bram Stoker, Irishness, and the Question of Blood, by Joseph Valente:

Because they were stoutly Church of Ireland, Stoker and his family were eligible for a wide range of sectarian advantages, but they were by no means members of the Ascendancy, or even the true bourgeoisie, to whom their professional-management aspirations must have seemed decidedly arriviste.

So, as I said, for a 19th-century Irishman, religion was a social indicator. — Walloon 22:58, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Wasn't he into the occult?

I read somewhere that he was in Golden Dawn, or into Thelema or some other mystic/occult society like those. Anyone know if is true? It would be worth documenting if it's factual. Note I think I saw this an a very Christian right oriented documentary of Aleister Crowley, so it's possible BS. — 69.231.233.152 12:48, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Barbara Belford wrote in her biography Bram Stoker and the Man Who Was Dracula,

It was widley rumored — but never substantiated — that Stoker was a member of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, a secret society that practiced ritual magic, founded in 1888 by a London coroner and prominent Rosicrucian Freemason named William Wynn Westcott. . . . According to R. A. Gilbert, historian of the Golden Dawn, Stoker was an outside observer with a number of close friends who were members, and he might have learned about the rituals if they broke the oath of secrecy.

— Walloon 02:02, 4 September 2006 (UTC)