Talk:Boy Scouts (Boy Scouts of America)

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Scouting Wiki Project Boy Scouts (Boy Scouts of America) is part of the Scouting WikiProject, an effort to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Scouting and Guiding on the Wikipedia. This includes but is not limited to boy and girl organizations, WAGGGS and WOSM organizations as well as those not so affiliated, country and region-specific topics, and anything else related to Scouting. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
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[edit] popular culture

I have just added a popular culture section to this article. It seemed more appropriate to add it here than in the article about the BSA organization. If you disagree with my inclusion of pop culture, please discuss it with me here before starting an edit war. Ycaps123 21:10, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

This has every potential to get huge. Do you know how many movies have shown or referenced Scouts? I know of one movie in development. Then there is the Cecil B DeMille screenplay based on Two Lives of a Hero that was never produced. Are we to have a section in the Cub Scout article so we can include Down and Derby? I have over a dozen fiction novels about Boy Scouts here in my home office. It might make more sense to have this in Scouting in popular culture so that Girl Scouts could be included as well. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 02:22, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

There is a section on Scouting in film and the arts in Scouting. This really should get tied together instead of spread out. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 03:17, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

This would also be a good place for the Fictional section of List of Eagle Scouts. That section has always bugged me, and I started it. I knew someone had a list of Scouting related movies, but it has been greatly expanded since I last looked [1]. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 12:19, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

The ISCA Journal had an article on all the old films that dealt with Scouting. I can look it up once this is settled. I propose a separate article for this, linked from wheverer we want. Also, putting it in the BSA article cuts out the Scouting movements from othere countries. Rlevse 12:32, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

And I see that there is a pop culture section in the Girl Scouts of the USA article. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 13:42, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes... I added the pop culture section to the girl scouts article. I think that it is a FANTASTIC idea to have one article on scouts of both sexes in pop culture. Maybe this will indeed explode in such huge proportions as to need a dedicated article. I say that we create a dedicated article now -- we can always merge it later if need be. Ycaps123 18:05, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
What are you waiting for: be bold!. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 16:23, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

There is a (now a little dates) article at the US Scouting Service project listing scouting related movies (and I think TV shows). I actually think that a dedicated article, covering either Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts or both, would be best, rather then a section in this article or the main BSA article. When you stop to think of the movies with some kind of scouting theme (boy, cub, girl, etc), then the tv shows, (I can think of several episodes of series like South Park, Simpsons, Family Guy, etc, that have had a scout theme), you can cover a lot. --Emb021 03:13, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Since there seems to be a concensus, I'm going to start a stub article for Scouting in popular culture and put merge tags on the sections in question. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 21:56, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for creating the article, I might have gotten to it eventually. But I'm a procrastinator -- so perhaps not. :~) In any case, since all of the info seems to be in the Scouting in popular culture now, I have replaced the original info in [[2]] and [[3]] with with a quick summary. I hope that this was the correct thing to do? Ycaps123 16:48, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
Yes is is. Generally you can take the lead-in from the main article and use it as a section in another article with a link to the main. It's actually a rather fun article to work on when my brain gets tired of working on the other stuff. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 14:23, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Controversy

There should be a controversy or criticism section mentioning their ban on gays and atheists. FAL 04:43, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Chartered organization

I've removed the claim that the chartered organization selects "leadership." As far as I know, troop leadership comes from the committee, which consists of anyone who cares to join. --Smack (talk) 01:27, 28 June 2006 (UTC)


Technically, not just anyone can be a leader: the chartered organization is responsible for the committee. This is how it is supposed to work, but I won't claim that this always reflect reality. See http://www.scouting.org/relationships/04-113/03.html

Chartered Organization Responsibilities

By receiving a charter from the Boy Scouts of America, the chartered organization agrees to (List the following on a flip chart.)

  • Conduct Scouting in accordance with its own policies and guidelines as well as those of the BSA.
  • Include Scouting as part of its overall program for youth and families.
  • Appoint a chartered organization representative who is a member of the organization and will represent it to the Scouting district and council, serving as a voting member of each.
  • Select a unit committee of parents and members of the organization who will screen and select unit leaders who meet the organization's leadership standards as well as the BSA's standards.
  • Provide adequate and secure facilities for Scouting units to meet on a regular schedule with time and place reserved.
  • Encourage the units to participate in outdoor experiences.

--Gadget850 ( Ed) 01:43, 28

That's interesting. I don't recall my old troop ever getting anything from its chartered organization (aside from the keys to the meeting place) or giving much back. --Smack (talk) 02:54, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
It depends a lot on the CO and the COR. Our current CO gives us $200 per year, signs the charter and that's about it- our meeting place actually has no connection to the CO. In a previous troop, the guy who became the COR (essentially the CEO of my company) a) approached me about switching the charter b) provided anything we needed - trucks, rope, free vacation for camp, etc. When I originally wrote that chunk of the article, I wrote it to that standard. BTW: it used to match the same section in the Cub, Varsity and Venturing articles.--Gadget850 ( Ed) 03:10, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] History

We have a very thorough subsection on the Improved Scouting Program, but very little information on anything else. Could we change that somehow? --Smack (talk) 02:54, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

That's because I have a lot of references on the ISP, and that's the program I started with. I have more stuff, but it's not as organized. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 03:11, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jamboree

The jamboree should be emphasized in the main Boy Scouts of America article, as it is common to all of the programs. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 23:13, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Do you mean national or local jamborees? --Smack (talk) 15:32, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

BSA official useage of jamboree is only for the national or world jamboree. I strike this comment, as I was not aware of the jamboree article. Local events are camporees or some local name. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 11:50, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Series box

I added a series box to See also. Right now it is just a simple table- when it stabilizes, I'll probabaly amke it a template. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 18:07, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] NEW Peer Review check

The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and may or may not be accurate for the article in question.

  • Please expand the lead to conform with guidelines at WP:LEAD. The article should have an appropriate number of paragraphs as is shown on WP:LEAD, and should adequately summarize the article.[1]
  • Per WP:WIAFA, Images should have concise captions.[2]
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  • Per WP:MOSNUM, there should be a non-breaking space -   between a number and the unit of measurement. For example, instead of 18mm, use 18 mm, which when you are editing the page, should look like: 18 mm.[4]
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  • Per WP:WIAFA, this article's table of contents (ToC) maybe too long- consider shrinking it down by merging short sections or using a proper system of daughter pages as per WP:SS.[6]
  • Watch for redundancies that make the article too wordy instead of being crisp and concise. (You may wish to try Tony1's redundancy exercises.)
    • Vague terms of size often are unnecessary and redundant - “some”, “a variety/number/majority of”, “several”, “a few”, “many”, “any”, and “all”. For example, “All pigs are pink, so we thought of a number of ways to turn them green.”
  • Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that the it exemplifies some of Wikipedia's best work. See also User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 2a. [7]

You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Andy t 22:23, 15 July 2006 (UTC)


[edit] POV vs. NPOV

It seems the majority of this article is

1. Written by members of the BSA 2. Quated from BSA material

am i the only one who sees something wrong with this? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.55.193.240 (talk • contribs).

Good question. We would welcome working with anyone with another viewpoint. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 21:31, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Just to put this in perspective, I'm the primary editor on Pershing missile, Centronics and Arthur Rudolph. Why? Because I'm an expert on the subjects and I'm the only one making major additions. I think most non-BSA editors are attracted to Boy Scouts of America membership controversies. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 00:30, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

hmmmm this seems to be a problem. Everybody with half decent knowledge of the BSA either is A. Part of the organization and is therefor biased or B. Been forceably removed from said organization in the past and is therefor biased in the oppsosit direction —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.55.193.240 (talk • contribs).

I suppose that stating that everyone is biased in some manner is a tautology. What do you suggest? When this article goes up fro GA or FAC it will be checked for NPOV. I don't consider the article ready for either at this point. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 23:20, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

How does that make this article different from any other article on a voluntary organization, such as LDS Church or Ducks Unlimited? What about countries? Few people will have much to say about a country where they have never lived. Professions have the same problem. I can hardly imagine someone writing about nuclear engineering who isn't a nuclear engineer. --Smack (talk) 00:25, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Do you have a constructive suggestion on how to attract editors who aren't knowlegeable on the subject? --Gadget850 ( Ed) 03:19, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Scout Oath

James W. (talk • contribs) has changed "fit" in the Scout Oath to "strong (fit)." Is this correct? FWIW, I've never seen this version. --Smack (talk) 05:51, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

I've always heard strong, not fit, nor with the parens after it. Rlevse 11:01, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
According to the BSA website (http://www.scouting.org/legal/mission.html) it is strong, not fit. meamemg 19:27, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
Actually, what I said is wrong. I've never seen "fit." I wonder how that got in there—it's been there since at least since July. --Smack (talk) 03:52, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
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