User talk:Bovlb

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You have new messages (last change).

I prefer to read interleaved conversations rather than the usual back-and-forth between user talk pages. If I leave a message on your talk page, I may also leave a copy of my comment here, and encourage you (a little selfishly) to discuss the issue on this page. If I don't do this, I invite you to copy my comment here before replying to it. Bovlb 02:13, 2005 Apr 13 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Welcome

Hello, welcome to Wikipedia.

[edit]

Here are some tasks you can do:

You might find these links helpful in creating new pages or helping with the above tasks: How to edit a page, How to write a great article, Naming conventions, Manual of Style. You should read our policies at some point too.

If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump, or ask me on my talk page. I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian!

  • You can introduce yourself on the new users page.
  • If you made any edits before you got an account, you might be interested in assigning those to your username.
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  • If you ever think a page or image should be deleted, please list it at the votes for deletion page. There is also a votes for undeletion page if you want to retrieve something that you think should not have been deleted.

Again, welcome! Chris Roy 17:58, 11 Mar 2004 (UTC)


[edit] Austin Wikipedia Meetup

I have proposed an Austin meetup group for Wikipedians. Please join me at Mozart's on 2005-04-11. [1] Bovlb 05:52, 2005 Mar 30 (UTC)

Excellent! How will we recognize each other? Ben 04:14, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I guess that I'll be the one with the dorky "Wikipedia Meetup" sign. ☺ My preferred spot (weather and crowds permitting) at Mozart's is outside, on the lower deck at the far left (from the bar, walk towards the lake, and go down the stairs). It's a little hard to find, but you tend to get space and privacy. Do I need to mention that Mozart's has free WiFi? Bovlb 04:41, 2005 Mar 31 (UTC)

(Discussion moved to Wikipedia:Meetup/Austin#2005-04-11)

[edit] Wikipedia:Deletion policy/schools

Hi there! I noticed you recently added your votes to this page. I'd like to point out that the poll in question was closed a long time ago (as stated at the top) so adding new votes is not really useful at this point. If there is going to be a new poll about this, it will be prominently displayed at the village pump. Radiant_* 08:17, Apr 10, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your note. At the point when I "voted", the page had no such statement at the top, nor did it indicate any expiry time. Indeed there is still no 100% explicit statement that it is "closed". I did think it odd that the poll should be held open for so long, but I wanted to register my opinion after GRuder attempted to list Kelvinside Academy for deletion. Thanks again. Bovlb 14:54, 2005 Apr 10 (UTC)
  • For your information, GRuder was shortly afterwards blocked for vandalism. We're currently recategorizing a bunch of WP namespace articles to clarify which ones are open, closed, accepted, official, etc. Yours, Radiant_* 15:52, Apr 10, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Issues about school articles

In November 2003, there was a VfD debate over Sunset High School (Portland). The debate was archived under Talk:Sunset High School (Portland). What to do with the article is still being contested and has been recently re-nominated for VfD at Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Sunset High School (Portland).

I am writing to you because you have participated in such debates before. There still does not exist a wikipedia policy (as far as i can tell) over what to do in regards to articles about specific U.S. public school. My hope is that a real consensus can come out of the debate, and a real policy can take shape. Take part if you are so willing. Kingturtle 02:41, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] NCdave RFC

It looked like the new comments were a new outside view so I branched it into an outside view 2. Please edit the section if this wasn't your intention. Mike H 17:12, Apr 12, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Dr. Seuss

Hello Canaduh. Can you explain your rationale for adding Dr. Seuss to Category: German people? Maybe I'm taking the European perspective on nationality, but his article says he was born in America, and doesn't suggest that he sought German citizenship. He may have been entitled to the latter because of his mother. Are you claiming that he had dual citizenship? Or is your perspective that his ancestry makes him "German-American" and hence "German"? Thanks. Bovlb 02:07, 2005 Apr 13 (UTC)

I added him to the German people category because he is ethnically German, in America (meaning Canada and the States) people generally have an ethnicity and a nationality (ex. Italian-American, Irish-American). Thats why I added him to the "German people" category.
I changed it to German-American now

[edit] Clint Curtis

Thanks for your work and your note. I answered on the article's talk page. Rl 09:00, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Subject Matter Expert/Temp

Sorry, there was a mistake from my part; I used the wrong template message to make that edit. I would encourage you to read the new version of Wikipedia:Stub - written by me and the guys over at WP:WSS - so that you can understand the issue fully. Today we have managed to eliminate all generic stubs, there are about 10 of those left out of the original dozens of thousand articles, and your article was on that list of articles which remained, so I removed the generic stub tag from it. What the message was supposed to say was "Please only use the stub tag once the article has been transefered to the main Wikipedia namespace". if you have any doubts, feel free to contact me once more. Cheers. --Sn0wflake 03:31, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Copyright for Josif Rajacic and Stevan Supljikac

Hi. Please see Copyright problems#June 5 where I have listed Josif Rajacic and Stevan Supljikac as potential copyright violations. Please comment there if you believe we have any legal basis to use text from this website. Also, could you clarify the origin of Image:Josif Rajacic.jpg and Image:Stevan Supljikac.gif? Thanks, Bovlb 10:22, 2005 Jun 5 (UTC)

You asked me about these articles:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stevan_Supljikac

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josif_Rajacic

I did took material for them on this site:

http://www.pancevo.com/town/history/licnosti/vips.htm

So, tell me, why it is a problem to take material from there? User:PANONIAN

Looking at that website, I can't see any explicit copyright notice or other licence, which means that by default we must assume it is copyrighted. Wikipedia's content is released under the GFDL, and we cannot in general just take information wholesale from other websites. The facts contained cannot be copyrighted, however, so we may read other websites and paraphrase the information. See Wikipedia:Copyrights#Using copyrighted work from others, Wikipedia:Copyright FAQ, and Wikipedia:Contributing FAQ#Copyrights for more details.

Regarding the images, it's possible that the other website is using out of copyright images which we may use. See Wikipedia:Contributing FAQ#I have an out-of-copyright image (or text) that is reproduced in an in-copyright book. Can I scan/type it into Wikipedia?.

On the positive side, so far as I can tell, the people running this site seem to be a small, friendly group that is interested in spreading historical information about their town. They may be amenable to releasing their work under the GFDL, and may even be interested in becoming Wikipedia contributors. One point I note is that your English language skills are better that theirs, so they may be glad to see their work copyedited and improved, especially if you're able to assist them with the translation from Serbian (or whatever langauge that is). You might like to contact them. There's some advice on how to do that at Wikipedia:Boilerplate request for permission.

I'm sorry to pick on your contributions like this. I'm sure it must seem like a big hassle, but we have to be careful about such things. IANAL, but please let me know if you have any other questions. Bovlb 18:21, 2005 Jun 5 (UTC)

Ok, I already wrote these two articles again. I founded another source with information about these two persons. Can we now remove the notice about copyright violation? But, what is with images? Can I use these two images in the articles, or I have to upload new ones? User:PANONIAN

Your rewrites look good, although we would be better to cite sources; there's nothing wrong with using the original website for that. The instructions given at Wikipedia:Copyright problems suggest that we need to wait seven days (or more) for an administrator to delete the original page, and move the temp version in. This is so that the copyright infringement is not visible in the article history.

About the images, I'm not sure. I find the guidance at Wikipedia:Contributing FAQ#I have an out-of-copyright image (or text) that is reproduced in an in-copyright book. Can I scan/type it into Wikipedia? a little unclear. Clearly the images are old, but if the ones you uploaded are simply from the website, then maybe their scan of an out-of-copyright image is copyrightable.

Bovlb 15:10, 2005 Jun 6 (UTC)

[edit] Scots

Hello thare. A see ye hae Scots as a mither tung. Did ye ken that the'r a test o a Scots Wikipedie bein wirkit on in meta:? Onie help ye coud gie tae pit a Scots Wikipedie thegither wad be gey appreciate, gin ye hae the time an the inclination. Mendor 16:47, 2005 Jun 17 (UTC)

[edit] Putting Chuck Anderson, Leader of Endeavor Academy on the Speedy Deletion list.

Dear Bob,
          Thanks for the suggestion that I put the Chuck Anderson, Leader of Endeavor Academy article on the Speedy Deletion list. I agree that the likelihood of anyone ever thinking to look for an article under that name is not very high.
          Just to make sure that such a Speedy Deletion might not mess anything else up, I read the article on speedy deletions. One thing that I was not able to get out of the article was whether or not such a deletion could possibly interfere with the correct redirecting of some of the earlier article titles such as the title Endeavor Academy onto the current article title Charles Buell Anderson. Comments on this?

Scott P. 18:36, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC)

I think it would have interfered with the redirects were it not for the fact that I went through and corrected them. See here to see the redirect structure. There are a handful left to Chuck Anderson, Leader of Endeavor Academy, but only on talk pages. Bovlb 20:41, 2005 Jun 19 (UTC)

[edit] Copyright problems at Pancevo

Hi. I have deleted the entire history section of this page because it appears to have been copied wholesale from this website, with no indication that this is permitted under copyright law. Please see Wikipedia:Copyright problems#June 5 to discuss. You may also be interested in my exchange with PANONIAN here where I suggest contacting the maintainers of this website for permission. Bovlb 18:38, 2005 Jun 5 (UTC)

Hi. If you really think this is the case then fine, but you could at least leave a link to that site. Could you?? RalPA

Done. And welcome to Wikipedia. Bovlb 14:18, 2005 Jun 26 (UTC)

Thank you for the welcome, it is nice that there are veterans on this site who are willing to help us newbies! :-) RalPA

You're welcome. I'm not sure I think of myself as a "veteran", but I'm glad to help. Bovlb 2005-06-30 13:12:40 (UTC)

[edit] Choob

Cheers for making this a worthwhile page, it was annoying me for ages. --Air 4 July 2005 08:12 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion

If there are images you inappropriate or unencyclopedic, you can list them at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. If they're really really inappropriate, you could always slap a {{speedy}} tag on it or notify an admin. --Calton | Talk 4 July 2005 10:35 (UTC)

[edit] Fairuse

Hi Bovlb, I've removed the template from the village pump (enough of dumb jokes) and moved your comment to Template_talk:Supermandisputed, where I responded to it.--Nectarflowed T 5 July 2005 18:08 (UTC)

[edit] Making copyright policies more obvious

I have left the following note on the talk pages of a few users who may have some useful insight into why our copyright policies are not as obvious as they could be.

Hi again. I have a follow-up question for you. A lot of people genuinely want to contribute to Wikipedia, but don't realize that our copyright policies forbid direct copying from other websites. I'd like to save everyone a lot of time and trouble by improving our communication in this respect. Do you have any suggestions for how this could be made more obvious? Thanks, Bovlb 2005-07-06 15:26:52 (UTC)

You didn't ask me, but here is my response anyway. One simple improvement is to make the warning more visible. I posted my suggestion a while ago at the bottom of talk:Copyrightwarning. Also (and here's where many people disagree), we need to have strict rules for copyvios and be strict about enforcing them – my experience shows that in many cases, copyvios won't be reverted if affected editors bitch and moan enough. As things are now, there's nothing to gain from meticulously checking contributions for copyvios, and nothing to lose from being negligent. That's no way to educate new editors. Rl 6 July 2005 15:58 (UTC)
  • That's a plan, although I think "without permission" can mislead people into thinking that simple permission to use is enough. `And why not "public domain or GFDL"? Also, there should be a clear link to a fuller explanation. Bovlb 2005-07-06 16:30:17 (UTC)
  • Heh, I didn't change everything. Most of what I did was simple reformatting and minor copyedit, the rest looks like the current notice. I would support some edits in the wording as well, but I thought it might be better to do it one step at a time. Rl 6 July 2005 16:43 (UTC)

copied from User talk:Modrac:

You could probably communicate this better by asking the users to rephrase everything they include. I think people generally make a distinction between taking a paragraph from a different website, and a bullet pointed list for example. If it's clear that ANY material that is added has to be rephrased, people will most likely do it, and if they don't, it's best to flag the site for copyrighted material and let the user know what they have to change. - Modrac

[edit] Copyvio

Thanks for the heads up. I just went ahead and deleted the "offending" image, although I find this to be completely absurd. Richard Harvey is an enormous prick, I have to say. He didn't like the caption other people wanted to put on the image, so he puts his own caption embedded into the image. Then when somebody tries to return the caption to its original form, he cries out copyvio. john k 7 July 2005 15:14 (UTC)

I was angry and overreacted, but I don't feel especially bad about making a personal attack on someone who has been nothing but a pest. john k 7 July 2005 15:56 (UTC)

Thank you for striking out the personal attack on me by {User:John Kenney]], on the copyvio page. I note he has now gone back into the page and deleted your edit and the personnal attack from the page. I do not believe I am a pest, check my contributions, though I will defend images I upload, which are from the Archives where I work, with permission, otherwise they may never see the light of day. Is it now permissable to put the original, with embedded text, image back on the page, ie:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Brig_Arthur_Valerian_Wellesley_KG_LVO_OBE_MC_BA_DL_8th_Duke_of_Wellington.jpg Again thank you. Richard Harvey 7 July 2005 16:45 (UTC)

I also now note that he is working his way through, and deleting, images I have uploaded to other pages, such as those of the 6th and 7th Duke of Wellington Pages. ~~

Yes, I know, don't bite newbies, and so forth, and there's no real excuse for a personal attack. But it's extremely annoying when somebody's entire purpose on wikipedia seems to be to defend with all their might the fact that the caption on the picture of the current Duke of Wellington must be just so, and is willing to go to extreme lengths to defend this. john k 7 July 2005 17:43 (UTC)

[edit] Jane Austen

Thanks for your answer at WP:RD about Mrs. Bennet. I am grateful. PedanticallySpeaking July 8, 2005 20:43 (UTC)

[edit] Hugh Fraser

What proof do you have that Hugh Fraser the diplomat who died in Japan in 1894 was the grandfather of Hugh Fraser 1st Baron of Allender born in 1903? (Obviously he could not be the father!)

  • I can't remember, and I cannot find any source for it, so I have removed it. Bovlb 15:18:39, 2005-07-11 (UTC)

[edit] copyright suggestion

Hi - It was a good idea to ask how to make the copyright info easier to find. I think the Wikipedia:Copyrights page is (permanently?) protected, so only an admin can change it. I don't know where the trim on the edit page is, but I suspect it also can only be changed by an admin. I'm not one and it looks like you're not either. Do you want to follow up on this at perhaps WP:AN? -- Rick Block (talk) 02:27, July 12, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Crapsey Deletion

Hi Bovlb,

Just wanted to respond to your comment regarding my request for a Speedy Deletion of the Crapsey article.

While I've made a number of contributions to Wikipedia, I'm a relative newbie when compared to many others. Frankly, I spent quite a bit of time composing and formatting the bio stub for Crapsey, which your collegeague "FreplySpang" hastily and incorrectly labeled a Copyvio. It was NOT -- as all of you should should know, there are only so many ways to summarize the salient points of anyone's life -- birth, childhood/family life, education, work, achievements, personal life, death, etc. Thus ANY bio blub will, by definition, have similarities to other blurbs on the same person one might find somewhere. The overzealousness of your colleagues has a chilling, stifling effect on those of us who want to make contributions to Wikipedia.

I feel the Copyvio label tainted the credibility of my entry and, in effect, resulted in a waste of my time. I thus suggested that, if your colleagues felt they could do better then THEY should create their own Crapsey bio -- and I could monitor their work and comb through it for the "Copyvios" that would most assuredly be there.

I'm sorry you found my PLEASE STOP statement "curious", but it was frankly begining to feel like a Revert War, with your colleagues effectively teaming up and Sock Puppetting me, thereby avoiding the 3 Revert Rule!

Btw, what's the story with disabling Wikipedia Search for "traffic" reasons? Is this permanent!? Google and Yahoo do NOT deliver the same results as your own search tool. This developement effectively turns any Wikipedia search into a web search despite the "Search Wikipedia" option. Thanks.
17:45, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

  • Hi 4.156.234.84. Thanks for responding so calmly. I guess my remark on Wikipedia:Copyright problems may have been a little terse and cryptic. We have had problems in the past with people who post copyright violations, and then repeatedly remove the notice, often based on some non-consensus interpretation of copyright law. Being listed on Wikipedia:Copyright problems does not mean automatic deletion, but instead means that everyone can comment on the issue, and an administrator will look at it after a few days and take the appropriate action. I did not mean to imply that you definitely fitted that category, but I am generally suspicious of people who remove copyvio notices, as it implies something out-of-process is going on. It is normal practice in such cases to zealously restore the notice.
  • Regarding the actual issues of copyright violation in the article, I agree that there are only so many ways to phrase things, but there did seem to be a stronger-than-necessary resemblance. I did not form a strong opinion either way, but felt that there was sufficient cause to keep the question open to wider review on Wikipedia:Copyright problems.
  • Regarding search, it is normal practice for the search to be disabled when the servers are under heavy load. I believe this is done automatically, and it is usually re-enabled shortly. It is possible that something is broken with the way we tell Google and Yahoo to restrict the search to Wikipedia. Bovlb 18:22:24, 2005-07-12 (UTC)

Hi Bovlb, I'm frankly disturbed by your message regarding "undoing other people's edits without discussing them first. This is considered impolite and unproductive."

I'm not sure which article you're referring to, but you did not "discuss" my article with me when you edited it.

I was also distressed by your remark about being somewhat unsure of my Crapsey article, feeling it more a "sentence by sentence paraphrase" from EB rather than an article written "from scratch" and your statement (above) about a "stronger than ncessary" resemblance.

What does any of that mean in the real world?! "Stronger than necessary"! As writers, we research our subject and fashion the results into something, but this sort of writing NEVER produces something "new" or "original". I fear that many of you at Wikipedia have gotten bogged down in the sort of nitpicking which sees plagiarism everywhere.

I'm well aware of the 3 Revert Rule and cited it to you, having felt your collegues were Sock Puppeting me to insure I couldn't restore my postings. If anyone has been "impolite", it's them. 06:34, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

  • Hi 4.157.77.100. The message I left on your talk page is the 3RR template, a standard template used to help users avoid stepping over the line. I apologize if its phrasing seemed inappropriate to this case; perhaps there was a more appropriate template I should have used. The article in question is Wikipedia:Copyright problems, where you have four times removed other users' contributions in the last two hours.
Wikipedia articles are not owned by anyone, so I'm not sure what you mean by "my article".
As I said before, the level of similarily between your Crapsey article and the EB one disturbs me; it seems to me to be on the borderline of copyright violation. This is the reason why I feel it is important to keep it listed at WP:CP, so that others can review the case. I realise this may seem like nitpicking, but I hope you understand that we have to be a little paranoid about copyright issues (but not too much). For example, I would estimate that EB are pretty high on the list of people likely to sue Wikipedia for copyright infringement. My advice to you would be to find multiple sources for Crapsey's biographical details and synthesize a new article from all of them; I find this the best way to avoid the trap of simply mirroring the structure of someone else's work.
I'm not sure what the "Sock Puppeting" is, but I suspect that you're referring to the replacement of {{copyvio}} tags that you removed. This is normal practice; any editor who sees a copyvio tag removed is likely to replace it, and then keep an eye on things.
I'm sorry if you've found your experience with editing Wikipedia to be disheartening. Please do persevere. You should consider creating an account. Bovlb 07:07:53, 2005-07-13 (UTC)

Hi again Bov,

Not much time at the moment since I'm in the midst of a project but wanted to respond to a few points.

First of all, thanks for your kind, even-toned replies to my questions and expressions of irritation. I DO think that WikiP should have an avenue of complaint for users -- from my recent experience, it seems contributors can get stuck in an endless loop of Admins (or whatever titles you and your editorial colleagues have), never reaching someone with the authority to resolve complaints. You and others have referred vaguely to the "process" of Copyvio review, but I have no idea who does that, when they do it, or how to reach them to defend my position/claims.

1. I sometimes find a "You have a message waiting" notice. How is that genrated? Do you get this same notice when I post on your User page? Is there a way to send a messaage directly to you so it won't be visible to the world -- e.g. if I needed to provide you an email address or something I didn't want posted here?

2. Regarding Crapsey. I did indeed check various sources in writing the article. And if you read the EB citation and my piece, you'll see that mine is quite different, not at all a sentence-by-sentence paraphrase. It differs in style and wording from the outset to the end and contains far more detail than EB.

Moreover, Crapsey is a local legend in Rochester, and I had no need to consult Brittanica -- I don't know how you folks access EB Online, but I stopped using it years ago when they went from a free to a pay service that only provides "teaser" articles that are virtually useless. Thus, the entry non-members get for Crapsey is the following truncated info:
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?tocId=9125441

We have never been EB "trial" members or subscribers; it would appear that you folks at WikiP do have some sort of membership, however. Is that correct?

3. Regarding Sock Puppetting, I was adapting your own WikiP term for those who use "dummy" accounts (or have friends act in concert with them) to insure they get the posting they want. It was beginning to appear that your colleagues were teaming up in a Revert War.

In fact, they did just that in another article we posted about area poet William Heyen -- they kept Copyvio-ing it, though in fact it was written by us for our own journal, Exit Online. When I pointed this out, I was told, in effect, "Oh yeah? Well, prove it!""

I have no idea what sort of "proof" one can offer for owning someone one has posted to their own web site (or any other web site for that matter). More to the point, THEY offered no suggestions as to how one might "prove it." If you have an email address for someone at WikiP who oversees this sort of stuff, then let me know and we'll be happy to contact him/her.

4. As for "my article," I was referring to the fact that it's mine by virtue of the fact that I authored it. In fact, your own guidelines specifically state that

the author of each edit is the author and has only granted a GFDL license, so that author can be said to be the owner of that particular edit. That could even be the whole article. For this reason, the authors don't have to comply with the GFDL requirements for their own writing - the GFDL license doesn't override their own rights to use their own work. They can also license it to any number of others under any other licenses they choose, since that's one of the rights authors have.

5. Thanks for your candor over concerns about EB suits over copyright. Maybe EB has folks that spend their days doing nothing but monitor WikiP, though I seriously doubt it since they wouldn't have access to the posting info you and your colleagues use to monitor the database. It would take an army of staff even to randomly check WikiP listings -- especially if they checking for the sort of "similarities" you folks spend time on.

6. As for creating an account, in fact, my colleagues and I do have accounts and would, indeed, like "credit" for our efforts. However, given the recent unpleasant incidents we've encountered that include threats of being blocked/blacklisted, I'm sure you can understand why anonymity seems preferable for the moment. Sure we could create accounts to take any flack, but why bother?

7. I'll have to check into templates. I suspected you might be using some sort of boilerplate, and this is precisely why forms can be so dangerous.

8. Speaking of "templates", where does one find a complete list of "comment codes" such as {Copyvio}, {db}, etc. I've found pages that need revision but which I think need something more precise than the catchall {Cleanup}.

Anon 19:51, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

Hi 64.241.37.140. I appreciate your taking the time to communicate.
  • The process of copyvio review takes place by people placing comments either on the Wikipeda:Copyright problems page or on the article's talk page. I favour the former. The admin taking final action (after about a week) should check both. I note that it's actually relatively rare for a copyvio to be contested, and most pass without comment. The ones that are contested often end up in the sections at the top of the page, and get considered for longer.
  • I feel that I should clear up one other point. You seem to be drawing a firm line between me and my "editorial colleagues", and yourself. We are all editors, including you, and WIkipedia is the result of our community efforts. Some editors are also admins, and have access to certain additional facilities, but other than that, they are not supposed to have particular control over content. We are peers, you and I, and I am merely acting in line with what I believe to be community consensus, and in the way I think will be most helpful to you.
  • Regarding avenues of complaint, see Wikipedia:General complaints and Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents. You can get general help on using Wikipedia at Wikipedia:Help desk.
  • Re 1. The new messages notice appears if someone has modified your user talk page since you last viewed it. I get the same message when you leave me a note. Unfortunately, because you're not logged in, I can only leave a message for your IP address and hope that it doesn't change the next time you visist. This is one good reason to log in. I will often copy messages I write onto my own talk page to make them easier to find. If you're looking at a user page or user talk page, you should see a link at the left under "Toolbox" labelled "E-mail this user". For users who have supplied an address (like me), this allows for private communication. (I'm not sure whether this works when you aren't logged in.) I do, however, prefer open communication on my user talk page if it's at all possible.
  • Re 2. The EB page I'm referring to is the one originally referenced. I hope you'll see why I see some similarity. I imagine that some Wikipedians have a subscription, but I do not.
  • Re 3. I covered the practice of restoring copyvio notices above, and I haven't done enough research to comment more specifically. It was rude of people not to respond to your question about how to prove ownership. I can't offhand find a page that documents the answer, but the usual two options are either to send a mail from the same domain as the website to a trusted Wikipedian (say an admin), or to place a notice on the website. In both cases, it's important that the message explicitly releases the text under the GFDL (or into the public domain). Wikipedia does not, in general, use text "with permission". This is important because there are others who reuse Wikipedia content under the GFDL. By the way, you would be amazed at some of the bold but unfounded claims past contributors have made about copyright ownership. It is to protect ourselves, and the rights of copyright owners, that we try to be so careful, and not take things at face value.
  • Re 4. You are quite correct. I apologise if my remark was snide.
  • Re 5. I do not have access to any special posting info. It's all available to everyone, although some of it is better hidden or harder to use. I seem to have developed a "nose" for likely copyright violations. (Note that I did not, I think, make the initial identification for any of your articles.)
  • Re 6. I understand your position. My position is to use my account, and guard its reputation.
  • Re 7 and 8. See Wikipedia:Template messages. This is not complete, but it is most of the useful ones.

Bovlb 02:05:18, 2005-07-14 (UTC)

[edit] More on Protocols/Procedures/Courtesy

Hi Bov,

Thanks so much for your kind reply. Our discussion was getting so long it was unwieldy to scroll though, so I thought I'd continue under a new heading. Hope you have no objection.

I'm still under the gun with that project I mentioned and am amazed that my last note was as long as it is!! Wanted to reply to a few points for the moment...I'm using numbered points because it makes it easier for you (and me) to refer back to.

1. Regardingn my making a clear distinction between me/us and "your editorial colleagues", yes, you're right. I guess I don't know enough about WikiP yet, but I clearly don't have access to the same "additional facilities" (which I take to mean "tools") as you, so I don't have the same control.

Sure, I could put a Copyvio on someone's page, but I rather doubt it would stay there any more than my {db}s did -- I assume Copyvio notices are either 1. sent to all admins (or those who deal with Copyvios specifically), and/or 2. posted to the Copyvio page for you and your colleagues to make some sort of determination on. From what you say above, it appears that some Uber Admin(s) makes the final determination.

2. Also regarding "tools" I and, I suspect, most WikiP contributors have no power to Lock and page to insure it doesn't get Reverted by anyone else. Nor can we Delete a page, even our own. Nor do we have access, as I assume you do, to EB and other pay services to check for likely infringements.

There are even several services used by educational institutions which faculty regularly use to check for plagiarism in term papers, theses, etc. Perhaps you also have access to those? You didn't indicate how that EB page was accessed since the public can only get the "teaser" entry for Crapsey.

Thus, to paraphrase your quote and the old axiom: "we are all peers, with equal power to edit, but some of us are more equal than others!"

3. Regarding your statement that it's "actually relatively rare for a copyvio to be contested, and most pass without comment," are you saying that once a Copyvio is pointed out, the "offending contributor" simply concedes the point and allows the page to be removed without so much an objection?!! That's truly astouonding -- I'd imagine that most folks do not deliberately borrow from others, however similiar the contents might be.

Have no idea what you mean by "the ones that are contested often end up in the sections at the top of the page." Can you point me to a sample of this?

4. Regarding your statement that "he EB page I'm referring to is [2], the one originally referenced -- what do you mean? Referenced by whom? By your colleague?

Or are you obliquely saying that WikiP has the means of reading contributor hard drive caches and Recent URL lists to determine where they've been?! I know I didn't reference EB and don't know how you access their pay service, but if you're in fact suggesting that WikiP can somehow monitor member hard drives, I'd find that VERY disturbing...an outright privacy violation. Will run AdAware & Spybot S&D just to see if anything they regard as "malicious" turns up with WikiP fingerprints on it! ;-)

5. On your reply to 3 above that "Wikipedia does not, in general, use text 'with permission,' " I'm confused. The passage I quoted suggests that the authors are granting WikiP a GFDL "license," which, from my understanding of the law, means "with permission." The author still "owns" the material and, presumably can make whatever other use s/he wants of it but cannot expect payment from WikiP, restrict the editing of, or, for that matter, even withdraw permission for work submitted to WikiP.

6. Regarding your answer to 5 above that you "don't have access to any special posting info. It's all available to everyone, although some of it is better hidden or harder to use," this sort of relates to my #1 immediately above, and I guess I'm confused again. How in the world would Admins and other "watchers" like you (still don't know what your title is) know "what's new" on WikiP if you don't get notices or have some list you can comb through? Are you saying there's an actual public list of all new articles? If so, where is it, and what prompts you folks to check one article vs. another?

Again, thanks. Will try and get back later or tomorrow.

Anon 23:16, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Hi 64.241.37.140,
  • Re 1 and 2: I don't have access to any additional facilities. I am a run-of-the-mill editor like you, not an administrator. Flagging suspected copyright violations is something any editor can do; it does not require administrator privileges. The procedure for doing this is described on WP:CP. It does take an administrator to delete a page, however, which is the usual result from suspected copyright violations. The notice is posted on the article in question, and on the WP:CP page, nowhere else. Again, I have no subscription to EB, nor any tools except search engines for detecting copyright violations.
  • Re 3: If you scroll down WP:CP, you'll see it consists mainly of reports, with the occasional comment, many of which are not from the original poster. Typically the original contributor does not respond at all within the seven day window. There are many new contributors who happily copy-and-paste from other websites, with utter disregard of their copyright notices, and our policies. Have a look at some of the listed items for examples. Most entries on the WP:CP page are in dated sections under "New listings", but some have "fallen off the top" into "Older than 7 days".
  • Re 4: If you look at the original report on WP:CP#July 11, you'll see that Duk listed that URL. Presumably the same URL also appeared in the original copyright notice. How that URL was found, I have no idea, but I would suspect search engines before spyware. 8-) It's by a human comparison of that page with yours that I perceive a certain amount of similarity in phrasing and structure. I'm prepared to accept that it's within the bounds of coincidence.
  • Re 5: You are correct; permit me to clarify. People often reproduce text from other websites citing permission with various constraints like "in Wikipedia", "for non-commercial purposes", "providing it is quoted without alteration", or "on condition that the source is credited in a particular way". Unfortunately, none of those (except perhaps the last) is satisfactory for text in Wikipedia for the reasons I explained above.
  • Re 6: New articles can be seen at Special:Newpages. Changes to all articles can be seen at Special:Recentchanges. Everyone has their own criteria for which entries they check, but most people are more suspicious of anonymous users than of logged in users.
  • I note with regret that Gamaliel has just blocked you for 24 hours. In the same circumstances, were I an administrator, I would probably not have done this, but you have to admit that you did twist each other's tails quite a bit. Perhaps this will give you a chance to concentrate on your other project. 8-) Note that you can still edit your user page, and I think you can still send e-mails using the "E-mail this user" link. I'll add a note to both entries on WP:CP that we are in a dialogue.
  • This is probably an unnecessary remark, but I feel I should point out that if you edit Wikipedia from a different address and identify yourself to me, I will feel obliged to report it as block evasion. This is independent of my feelings about the block itself. Sorry.

Bovlb 03:46:38, 2005-07-16 (UTC)

[edit] User:Microtonal/List of Bach cantatas by liturgical function

Hi, there. I have sandboxed just such a list, like we discussed a few weeks ago. Let me know what you think. Microtonal (Put your head on my shoulder) 23:04, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, I've been watching it. It looks pretty good. Some minor points:

Bovlb 00:46:25, 2005-07-19 (UTC)

[edit] Yes, House Ginaz is a copyvio, any reason you didn't list it?

I noticed you edited House Ginaz, and noted in your summary that it may have come from DUNE MUSH (as it did, it's a perfect copy, actually) but you did't list it at WP:CP? I just wondered why, and if you know about the google-for-a-random-phrase trick for detecting copyvios. Thanks for all the work you do at Wikipedia! JesseW 02:35, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your note. I guess I must have missed that one. My edit summary ({{cleanup-context}} DuneMUSH?)) was just my guess about what the missing context was, not an indication of where the text itself might have come from. This must have been based on a Google search as I don't really know what DuneMUSH means, but I evidently didn't stumble on the right document to match it exactly. I'm usually pretty good at tracking down copyvios. Bovlb 03:46:06, 2005-07-19 (UTC)

[edit] Hisarlik copyvio

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia! We welcome and appreciate your contributions, such as Hisarlik, but we regretfully cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from web sites. For more information, take a look at our policy library. Happy editing! Also, could you please clarify why you think we have a fair use claim to Image:HisarlikMoundToTroy.jpg. You might find it helpful to use Wikipedia:Fair use as the basis for your explanation. Thanks, Bovlb 04:25:23, 2005-07-19 (UTC)

Hi there,

Thank you for pointing out the source of that text. In the future, I will be more careful before posting material whose origins I didn't even bother to check.

Regarding the image, there's a note down the bottom of http://www.utexas.edu/courses/introtogreece/lect4/lect4imgs.html (from whence the image is linked), and it states

Note: All images used on Classics Department pages accessed from this site are subject to copyright regulations, and are provided for non-commercial, study purposes only.

Being a Wiki newbie, (and a copyright newbie!), does this notice preclude the use of the image on Wikipedia? Probably...

Thank you for the heads-up.

Regards, --GilHamilton 04:39, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

I think that Wikipedia:Copyright FAQ#Non-commercial licenses addresses your question. So, you're left with making a fair use argument. Cheers, Bovlb 04:46:55, 2005-07-19 (UTC)

[edit] Speedy deletion

Is it possible to have the process of deletion of this copyrighted article (Hisarlik) sped up?

I'd like to replace Hisarlik with Hisarlik/Temp soon, so I and others can work on this article.

Regards, --GilHamilton 05:02, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

As (apart from me), you are the only editor, you can request a speedy deletion. You can do this by adding {{delete|requested by sole editor}}. Bovlb 05:09:00, 2005-07-19 (UTC)

[edit] WP:CP#July 11 Adelaide Crapsey - Is this over?

Can we remove this entry from WP:CP? It seems to be done with, the anon who you were discussing seems to have left, and in it's history there doesn't seem to be any copyvio template, so can we get rid of it from WP:CP? BTW, I commend you for your patience in the discussion above. The anon was embarrassingly confused... So many people find it hard to deal with the lack of hierarchy at Wikipedia. JesseW 00:29, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

  • Thanks. I believe the copyvio is missing because it was speedied and then recreated. I have re-compared the latest version of the article with the EB page, and I can see little similarity. I think we can let this one go. Bovlb 05:24:44, 2005-07-22 (UTC)
    • Great! I'll go remove it now(and reference your talk page). On another matter, would you mind not using an unusual format for dating your signatures(see above). It is a Real Pain In The **** when archiving the Village Pump to come across non-standard date stamps. (No offence meant) Thanks! JesseW 06:22, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
      • I use ~~~~. I believe that's the usual format. 8-) Seriously, it appears that the software is now (approximately) respecting Date format preference for signature expansion. I have mine set to ISO 8601. Can you quote the "standard" for your date format? Bovlb 06:30:17, 2005-07-22 (UTC)

[edit] Table formating

Thank you very much for your help. HJKeats 15:15, July 26, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you

Thanks for the little clean up to the Tarleton page. I am going to do a bit more research, bit of revising and what-not, and get back to it, flesh it out a bit.

Cheers

Liam/Dotkorb

05:48, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] SD Meet-up

Hello, you posted on ZScout's page that you are interested in a San Diego meet-up. I would like to organize a San Diego meeting around User:JimboWales' October visit to San Diego for [www.oopsla.org|OOPSLA]. I am hoping he can attend. Would you be interested in helping organize this? Johntex 00:19, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Yes, but bear in mind that I am new to the area. Bovlb 05:40:15, 2005-08-18 (UTC)

[edit] Links from Individual Hardy Boys Articles

There is a discussion I referenced you (or you might be interested in) at [3]. --PhilipO 16:58, August 25, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Re VfD

Hi Paul. May I suggest that you consult Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Log/Today#VfD footer for the correct procedure for listing pages for deletion? You don't seem to be following it 100%. Cheers, Bovlb 08:29:17, 2005-08-26 (UTC)

Hi, Boblb: I have actually read the guidelines you mention, and as I understand them, I am following them correctly. Can you please be more specific and discuss an instance where you consider my use inappropriate, and why? Thanks in advance. Paul Klenk 08:33, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
Hi, Bovld, me again -- I have taken another look at the page, the section you linked to, and it makes sense now. Thanks. Paul Klenk 08:37, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
Sorry to be terse last night. The three specific points I noted were: using subst with {{vfd}}; using {{vfd2}} to start the actual vote page; and, most importantly, listing the vote on Wikipedia:Pages for deletion/Log/2005 August 26 using {{vfd3}}. Without the third point, the votes aren't being publicised properly. I note that jpgordon and Gadfium have added three of your VfDs to this page for you. Bovlb 14:10:54, 2005-08-26 (UTC)
Thanks, Bovlb. I'll now get back to the task of more fully tagging for deletion pages about "characters in movies who really excel at anal sex" and page "about that scene in that movie I liked". Paul Klenk 15:12, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Could use some help, if you have a moment...

I've made a Sandbox page to practice the VfD procedure. I'm not sure I did step 3 correctly -- would you mind taking a look at it? Wikipedia:Sandbox_Page_for_Practicing_VfD_Procedure Thanks for your help. Paul Klenk 16:39, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

It works -- I made it through all procedures to nominate Camo dudes for deletion, and everything shows up correctly. I appreciate your help. Paul Klenk 07:49, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Appearance of links

Go to your your preferences and look at the first item under "Misc". I have underlining turned off, but I think that the default should be to have underlining, as it's what web-users are accustomned to.

  • Thanks for your help on that. S. Neuman 22:00, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Amtrack

I changed Amtrack from a redirect to a disambiguation page to allow for the military sense of amphibious tank. Cheers, Bovlb 17:11:44, 2005-08-28 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads-up. I've recategorized the link on User:Slambo/Disambig as a disambiguation, and clarified that Amtrak is a passenger carrier on the Amtrack page. slambo 22:58, August 28, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] USS Evans

I requested the speedy because USS Evans is a different ship from USS Frank E. Evans.

lots of issues | leave me a message 09:22, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Copyvio message box

I think your idea about the warning box is great. (I'm an artist myself, sometimes involved in intellectual property issues in my work.) I have one question for you: You said: "The notice should have a distinguishing class/id so that experienced users can suppress it." Can you explain "class/id" or point to a WP reference page - I fear I'm still a bit of a "WP noobie"... ;-) --Janke | Talk 15:11:09, 2005-09-02 (UTC)

Sorry if my allusion was cryptic. We badly need a help page on using CSS in Wikipedia, but I'm afraid I don't have time to write one this morning. Bovlb 15:20:34, 2005-09-02 (UTC)

[edit] Copyright violations

Please tell me what I need to do to make things 'right. Such as, which specific photos requires me to add more information?

Thank you! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by GaryKing (talk • contribs) 2005-09-05 21:12:01 PDT.

Hi. I had quick look through some of your most recent uploads.

  • Template:tv-screenshot did not exist, but I have created it as a redirect to Template:film-screenshot. Fixed.
  • Image:Large flag of canada.gif has been deleted.
  • Image:Engalus1a.jpg is not used in any article. Such orphan images often end up being deleted.
  • You tagged Image:Robin Good using his headset as a mike.jpg, Image:MarjoleinNov2004.gif, Image:Amish Paradise.jpg, Image:Coolio your daily doggy style weblog cool hip hop blog.jpg, Image:359136 700club.jpg, Image:Kevin poulsen msht.jpg, Image:Jim buckmaster.jpg, and Image:Craig newmark.jpg as "pd", but Hottentot has now tagged them "no source". This requires your attention. You need to explain the origin of the image to justify the claim that it is in the public domain.
  • Image:Logo primary.gif and Image:Main.gif are not very well named. The main risk is that another user will inadvertantly upload a different picture with the same name.

I hope this points you in the right direction. Let me know if you'd like me to review further back. Bovlb 14:22:50, 2005-09-06 (UTC)

[edit] Image deletion warning on Commons

Image:Hell Marys.jpg is on IFD at commons. Can you clarify? Alphax τεχ 07:01, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

  • Certainly. These picture were taken by myself and placed in the public domain. The nominator fails to explain where he sees the "clear" copyright notice to the contrary. Bovlb 14:26, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Mop and bucket

I noticed your comment at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Fair use, and decided to have a look at your contribs and talk page. I am very impressed with what I've seen, particularly with the way you've handled yourself regarding explaining copyright problems. I feel that you would make a good administrator, and will nominate you at WP:RFA if you would like me to. Reply either here or on my talk page. Thryduulf 13:11, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

Thank you. I think I could make myelf useful, although I fear that dealing with copyright issues is not the best way to make friends around here. JYolkowski's suggestion is also good. Bovlb 17:24, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Bovlb. From what I've seen, you've not made anyone majorly upset with your editing, and done things according to process. Good luck. Thryduulf 22:45, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
Thanks. Bovlb 03:35, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Image:Garavito crater.jpeg

Hi. This image is currently tagged as {{nosource}} which means that it is likely to be deleted in the near future. To avoid this, I strongly recommend that you add one of the tags from Wikipedia:Copyright tags with an appropriate explanation. If you don't understand this, please drop a note on my talk page. Bovlb 20:00, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

Hello. I copied that image from es:, but it seems like the original file was deleted, and I don't remember who uploaded it (otherwise I would ask them). Please note that Fair Use images are not allowed on es: anymore, so this could have been the reason for its deletion.
So... how should I tag the image? --Fibonacci 22:08, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
My Spanish is non-existent, but I can't seem to find any trace of that image ever existing on es:. Maybe it got deleted before MediaWiki 1.5 introduced deletion histories.
Its original name was "juliog1.jpg". Although my Spanish is fluent, I don't know where are the deletion logs stored on es: - I don't even know where is the "images for deletion" page, and I don't think it's the same page where articles are listed for deletion (hey, I've never needed to list one for deletion...).
I'm afraid that Fair Use images are getting less and less tolerance here as well, especially unsourced ones. If you did not create the image yourself, and you cannot find the original source, then I don't think there's anything you can tag it with that will save it. Sorry. I suggest you try finding a NASA source for this or a replacement image, as we can use them. Bovlb 22:34, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
Okay, so be it. But I don't know how can I find sources for this - could you please help me? As for the replacement image, I already googled for "Garavito crater" and found only images identical to this. --Fibonacci 03:36, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
This page (translation) shows the image, and cites the International Astronomical Union[4],
Not as the source of the image. I had already found the page, and this is what it says: "A crater on the far side of the Moon, chosen on August 27 by the International Astronomical Union, was named after him". It doesn't help at all.
but there the trail goes cold unless we contact them.
I don't think they could help if they didn't do anything more than choosing the crater to be named after Garavito. I contacted the webmaster of that site, asking him for info about said image, and am waiting for a reply.
I can't find anything else very specific, but there are various US government sites that give pictures of the moon that I believe we can use.[5][6][7][8] I'm sure that the Garavito crater appears in at least one of these images, but I can't identify it offhand. It's a smaller crater on the farside, so I guess people don't talk about it very much. I'm sorry I can't be more helpful. Bovlb 04:21, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
I can't identify it either... guess I'll have to ask the people who work at the observatory in my university for help.
Thanks for your help anyway. --Fibonacci 05:29, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] You're a sysop

I'm pleased to let you know that, consensus being reached, you are now an administrator. Congratulations!. You should read the relevant policies and other pages linked to from the administrators' reading list before carrying out tasks like deletion, protection, banning users, and editing protected pages such as the Main Page. Most of what you do is easily reversible by other sysops, apart from page history merges and image deletion, so please be especially careful with those. You might find the new administrators' how-to guide helpful. Cheers! User:Nichalp/sg 06:00, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

  • Thanks. Bovlb 14:19, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Popups tool

Congratulations on being made an admin! I thought you might like to know of a javascript tool that may help in your editing by giving easy access to many admin features. It's described at Wikipedia:Tools/Navigation popups. The quick version of the installation procedure for admins is to paste the following into User:Bovlb/monobook.js:

// [[User:Lupin/popups.js]] - please include this line 

document.write('<script type="text/javascript" src="' 
             + 'http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Lupin/popups.js' 
             + '&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript&dontcountme=s"></script>');

popupShortcutKeys=true; // optional: enable keyboard shortcuts
popupAdminLinks=true;   // optional: enable admin links

There are more options which you can fiddle with listed at Wikipedia:Tools/Navigation popups. Give it a try and let me know if you find any glitches or have suggestions for improvements! Lupin|talk|popups 12:12, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

  • Thanks. Bovlb 14:19, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Scottish Wikipedians' notice board

Since joining Wikipedia I have learnt an awful lot, and one of those things is the value of teamwork. It has become increasingly apparent to me that there are absolutely tons of people out there devoted to editing the Scottish articles, but we communicate only haphazardly. To begin to attempt to remedy this, I have initiated a notice board for all Scoto-fans!

You can find it using this shortcut: WP:SCOWNB (yes, I know that it ain't very "short", but our nordic neighbours had first call on WP:SWNB).

Please sign up and post notices, or at least Watch the page.--Mais oui! 15:23, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use images on my user page

Thanks for informing me, I have removed the images from my user page. BTW, how did you come across the problem with the images on my user page? Tnikkel 07:25, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

  • About the AFI 100 Years... series pages. I don't know if there are copyright problems with it or not. I was just organizing the information that was already there. Cheers. Tnikkel 08:07, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] DynamicPageList2 / Group by user

Just to notify that the feature you requested for the DynamicPageList2 extension some time ago (more info) is now provided in DynamicPageList2 v0.6 if you are still interested, at least most of it. --Dangerville 23:09, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

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