Talk:Borat

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1 Move Request
2 External References/News Articles/Media Aftershock
3 Legal Issues
4 Character Traits & Origins
- 4.1 Religion of Borat?
- 4.2 Origins of Borat
5 Symantics and Syntax
6 Language
7 Ideas for Article Expansion
- 7.1 Borat VW
8 Misheard Quotes
9 Scene Specific
- 9.1 "Hunting deer...then Jew."
10 What if the portrayals had been reversed?

[edit] Move Request

I would like to move the page to his full name Borat Sagdiyev... Can an admin please do so?--Sonjaaa 19:23, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm not super-familliar with the character, but it appears he is more commonly refered to as simply Borat. Wikipedia guidelines state that articles should usually be titled with the character's most common name. Jeff Silvers 13:29, 16 September 2006 (UTC) ITS JAGSHEMASH NOT JAGSHAMESH

SOMEONE FIX THAT

He is often introduced with his full name.--Sonjaaa 22:31, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

A straw poll of my friends and workmates (about 40 people), all of whom know Borat and several of whom have seen the movie, reveals that not one of us knew his second name, or even recognised it given three options to choose from. We are far from a representative sample, being all from the same country for starters, but I'd agree with Jeff on this that Borat is his more common name, and the surname exists purely because he needs to have a surname and isn't commonly used or known. CastorQuinn 12:22, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was no consensus to move. —Mets501 (talk) 21:31, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

Borat → Borat Sagdiyev — Expand the article name to avoid any confusion between that and the movie title that is usually abbreviated to just Borat. waffle iron ^talk 03:42, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

Add any additional comments:

Aren't they both usually referred to as simply "Borat"? I doubt that the vast majority of people familiar with Borat will remember his last name, and the character Borat is also currently more noteworthy than the film Borat, though this may change in the future if the film becomes so popular that a majority of people who know of Borat know of him from the movie (as opposed to from Da Ali G Show and other sources). At this point, at least, it seems like it's a bit more practical to have the character Borat at Borat and the film Borat at Borat (film). Simpler. -Silence 03:48, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

[edit] External links

Hi, my first post... Can I suggest some 'developed site' links for the external links section. These are known Borat fan sites, and missing from this page.

Boyakasha.co.uk - Long standing (1998?) Ali G / Borat site http://www.boyakasha.co.uk

BestofBorat.com - Extensive site reviewing Borat clips on YouTube, Google, etc http://www.bestofborat.com

The Borat Soundboard - Popular Borat sound clips site www.e-subversive.net/soundboards/borat/

Thanks, and keep up the great work!

I'm pretty sure some of them violate copyrights.

Can someone please have a look at the extrenal links - it looks more like a myspace/youtube advertisers banner board than a set of links which add value/perpsective to an article! I have reverted five this afternoon which were a combination of spam/lonesome blogs. Rgds, - Trident13 15:03, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

I have added these three links. Rgds - Shannonnights 8 December 2006

As you're new here, you might want to ask why these are inappropriate. — edgarde 12:02, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

You are correct, I am new here and very keen to learn. As a fan of Sacha Baron Cohen I figured this was a good place to start. Please tell me how these three links are innapropriate? They are popular fan sites and surely should be included. --Shannonnights 14:51, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

WP:NOT#MIRROR states "On articles about topics with many fansites, including a link to one major fansite may be appropriate, marking the link as such." Gdo01 20:29, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] No YouTube

The link to the YouTube video in the Notes section should be removed according to the new addition in WP:RS#YouTube. Ekantik 14:42, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Balki Bartokomous

On the "see also" section, Yakav Smirnov is mentioned. Can we also list Balki Bartokomus from "Perfect Strangers?"

<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balki_Bartokomous">Cousin Balki</a> --Creton4, Nov. 30, 2006.

[edit] borat.kz

Check out: http://nic.kz/cgi-bin/whois?lang=R&query=borat.kz

it's listing the name servers as foxfilm.com, so I'm guessing that he now owns the domain.

Very nice!

[edit] External References/News Articles/Media Aftershock

[edit] Wikipedia

I read that the Wikipedia entry for Kazakhstan has been locked from editing after it was vandalized with comments about Borat. Would it be worth adding this fact in this article?

You could try, but I imagine it would be reverted almost immediately. It's just not particularly important. You should also sign your posts with four tildes. MGlosenger 23:13, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Broadwater

I added a portion of Broadwater's statement about how the media should be brought under stricter control of the FCC, simply because I think it's a revealing look into the mentality of the sort of people who are silly enough to be duped by Borat. Any objections?BarrettBrown 03:13, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Borat's "Kazakh" press release

"On a previous occasion, Borat responded to official Kazakh complaints by issuing his own press release, which consisted of random Cyrillic characters."

Is this press release available anywhere? I have not seen it, but am wondering if it might be not random, but actually in the "Borat code". Heh, secret Borat messages. --Lph 13:21, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] News: Banned in Russia & Ukraine

Film has been banned in Russia and won't be shown in Ukraine (Distributors are the same).

Kievboy 15:35, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hoax victims

In my opinion, this part is below par. Either it be expanded, or removed. EmpComm 22:20, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I entered that one, along with a link or two. Change/cite/delete as needed. I think it should be expanded — but all I have to contribute is what I entered.

This from a Salon.com letter:

... do they do any debriefing? In social psychology experiments it would be considered a violation of ethics to allow people to think that they were responsible for being decieved by the experimenter for this exact reason. It can be really devastating and ruin lives, we learned that after the Milgrim experiments. So, since Borat is essentially doing the same thing (social norm violation), isnt a little debriefing required?

Note bias: I really dislike what Sasha Cohen does. I feel he's jerking people around, people who don't deserve the abuse. If you think my edits are POV, you know what to do. — edgarde 22:34, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

This was recently deleted by an IP user without reason. The section seemed to only have one citation and may not deserve restoration to the article. Gdo01 06:33, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

How many citations does it need? The deletion may be excessive. I don't care to edit-war this thing, so someone else can restore it if they consider it worth developing. — edgarde 06:48, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Well I guess it just needs another news article just to verify that this incident is truly notable. Gdo01 06:50, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Supposedly Dharma Arthur has an article in "this week's" Newsweek. November 6? 13? I'm not a subscriber and wouldn't know. More on her story:

* The TV lady Borat got fired. Orlando Sentinel blog (dunno their blog policy). Like everything I can find tonite in Google News, it quotes "Newsweek via Fox". Supposedly there's fragments on YouTube, but I can't find any.

Several sites repeat the Fox News story in passing. Here's one. I guess that Newsweek hasn't hit any mailboxes yet.

More fuel for the Borat effigy:

* Is Borat Unethical? interview with Randy Cohen, ethics columnist for The New York Times Magazine, who liked the movie.

* Critic David Edelstein I think this was on NPR today, but I might be confusing it with someone else harshing on Borat

* Will 'Borat' Dupes be Able to Sue Filmmakers? I wasn't original in using the word dupes.

* Meet the Real People in ‘Borat’, Newsweek 16 Oct 2006 hints at "loose legalese" in his release forms. The idea isn't developed.

* Slate has a picture of the consent agreement.

— edgarde 08:03, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll restore the section and I hope someone incorporates these sources into it. Gdo01 08:15, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Wow. Thank you Sir. — edgarde 08:45, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

That's more like it. I just feel the present piece is too short. EmpComm 21:30, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] News: Woman Loses Job

In the text of the hoax victims area, there's a lot of info on this woman who claims she lost her job because of the Borat interview in a movie. According to the current article re:Borat from AP, she has provided two versions of this story: one where she was fired, and one where she left the station.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061113/ap_en_mo/film_borat_s_victims

"Although Arthur has said she was fired from the show, she told the AP that she left the station."

Since this is a particularly damning example of the effects of Borat's methods, perhaps this entry should be tempered until all of the facts are in? 74.136.204.81 04:15, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

The Associated Press reporter, Erin Carlson, had to recant that statement. She did a very stupid thing, using another reporter's original article as a source, without verifying the information. ANd HE got it wrong, so she continued misinformation. The producer in question has never stated on record that she was fired. She says in the letter to Newsweek that she was released from her contract early. The Fox reporter could not get hold of her and made up facts, apparently at random. He also said she was 50, when she is 35, and that she lives with her father, when she does not. I know this, because I am the producer in question. Also, the statement about curssory research is biased, inflammatory, and unfounded. It needs removal, immediately.

Gosh, I hope I followed all the rules of etiquette, here, so you won't simply discount this post and delete it, keeping the original misinformation intact. Again.

I don't understand this bit of the article. Someone allowed Sasha Cohen to come on to live television dressed as an idiotic east european, talk nonsense, try and kiss the presenter, interrupt a weather report etc - and you're saying that that person does not work for the network anymore? No way! Dr Spam (MD) 08:17, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] News: 4th most popular Wiki page

See here

So I think we should definitely make it a bit better...

The 4th most popular page is also one of the most heavily vandalized pages as of late. Unfortunately, from the roves of IP vandals, I have had to semi-protect this page from editing by anons and new registered users. Nishkid 64 21:36, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Actually, you can disregard the pages a head of it, since they're not articles. So technically, its the most viewed. Actually raises the question of "what the hell?"--Kross ^Talk 13:56, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Gosh, I hope I followed all the rules of etiquette, here, so you won't simply discount this post and delete it, keeping the original misinformation intact. Again.

[edit] Borat in the History of Cringe Humor

I'm a producer with a radio show that recently did an hour on Borat and the history and meaning of cringe humor; I'm trying to do this the right way. Here's the [link] The show features Mal Sharpe, one of the pioneers of man-on-the-street type humor, contemporary sketch comedian and radio host Jesse Thorn, and Professor Robert Thompson, who specializes in TV and pop culture. The show is Radio Open Source. We produce independently and air on American Public Radio. Our podcasts are licensed under Creative Commons.

[edit] News: Borat won't meet Pres. Bush

This was printed on eonline.com: SECURITY! Secret Service agents turning away Sacha Baron Cohen, in character as Kazakhstani reporter Borat, from the White House Thursday, after he showed up to invite "Premier George Walter Bush" to a screening of his new movie Borat: Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan. Unable to face the sting of rejection, Borat drowned his sorrows with several pints of horse urine.

Don't know if it warrents mentioning on the article but thought I would make it known. J-Axe

[edit] Legal Issues

Near as I can tell, all of the humor in 'Borat' revolves around Jewish stereotypes of Gentiles. Certainly the terms shiksa, shegetz and goyisher kopf apply to the inhabitants of Borat's hometown, and his relatives, if they ever applied to anyone.

Groups such as the ADL are asking, "is it really wise to make light of Anti-Semitism as this film does"? Cspalletta 12:43, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Litigation

I added a section on litigation to the article to make a space for those complaints against Mr. Borat which have become destined to be resolved in courts of law. I feel this deserves its own section in the article, seeing as how it's more serious than just somebody voicing their displeasure. takethemud 15:29, 14 November 2006 (UTC)takethemud

The use of "fraternity boys" is derogative in this context. Please change it to something like "fraternity members."

Did that yesterday. Besides, it's not really appropriate to say "boys" when we don't know their ages. Kasreyn 07:59, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Borat lawsuits

A long list of lawsuits have been filed against the makers of the borat film. The information about these cases is dispersed in different parts of Wikipedia, such in Borat, Ed Fagan, Glod, Dâmboviţa, Borat: Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan, Mahir, Sacha Baron Cohen. What do people think about having a starting a Borat Lawsuits page which will consolidate details and updates of the various lawsuits, which the other pages can link to? Abu ali 09:52, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Misuse of Villagers

Some mention should be made of the misuse of the Romanian villagers seen in the first scene. Though given an entire 3 pounds, they were not told that they were being savagely ridiculed. In the words of the one-armed man in that village who had no idea that he was being mocked,

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/6113036.stm

"Our region is very poor, and everyone is trying hard to get out of this misery. It is outrageous to exploit people's misfortune like this to laugh at them."

Source <http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=415871&in_page_id=1770> (And many others)

On top of the frat boys filing lawsuits the poverty-stricken village used to depict prostitution and rape among it's villagers is suing: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=415871&in_page_id=1770

[edit] Similar Character

"Borat" has extreme similarities with Yakov Smirnov's (broken English, sweeping generalizations about life in Eastern Europe, etc.) that I'm stunned Smirnov hasn't taken legal action against Cohen for the character. I'm just as shocked that nobody else seems to notice the similarities.If not Yakow Smirnov then take a look at Mahir Çağrı (A internet celebrity), the suit,moustache and broken english are extremely similar to Borat's. Luckily Mahir has taken some legal actions and is now asking Hollywood if he can have his own movie. Even in the light of his tacky and tasteless comedy, the most controversial and insulting aspect of "Borat" is that he's entirely devoid of originality. --M.Neko 00:58, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

You realize of course both Cohen and Smirnov are both Jewish,and are descended form people who survived pogroms,beside Yakov is too busy pulling down all his Branson money to worry about litgation.Sochwa 03:48, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Russian Guy Internet Meme

Isn't he based on this meme? The Russian guy that wants to make love to women.

Do you mean this Turkish guy? --71.124.9.90 01:06, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

- "The Russian guy that wants to make love to women"? As opposed to the Russian guys that don't want to make love to women?--210.241.95.245 11:32, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

- No I don't believe he was 'based' on Mahir Çağrı. Please see the discussion Birth of Borat above.

Borat could be an imitation of the late turkish comedian kemal sunal. Not to mention judson kuffel who is a deaply offended Kazakstinian man!

[edit] Mahir Cagri (Turkey)

[1]

ANKARA, Turkey (AP) -- Turkey's Internet celebrity Mahir Cagri is so convinced he was the inspiration for the Kazakh journalist character Borat Sagdiyev that he plans to travel to London seeking ways he can benefit from the movie that has surprised Hollywood with a No. 1 debut.

Cagri, 44, became a cyber celebrity after he posted a personal Web site in 1999, which featured unintentionally amusing photos of himself playing pingpong or the accordion and sunbathing in a skimpy bathing suit.

Word of the site spread quickly and the Web site received more than a million hits from fans poking fun at, or endeared by his broken English and as well as a hilarious invitation to women: "Who is want to come TURKEY I can invitate ... She can stay my home."

so, do you think this might have a place in this article? dposse 18:55, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

There is already an (external) link to the WIRED Magazine interview where Mahir initially claimed he would sue Borat for stealing his persona. That set off a minor fire storm on blogs, websites, forums and a few mainstream media sites discussing those allegations.

And more recently the Associated Press picked up that lawsuit story too, so a TON of traditional news agencies have published it now - usually verbatim (ie. cnn, msnbc, cbc, etc).

None of them appear to have done any independent research to find out the merits of such a lawsuit, but a new online news site DID do some investigating and discovered fairly concrete origin dates for both Borat - or more specifically a Borat character by a different name and nationality - and Mahir's original website.

If there are any admins available to edit the Borat page, it might be worthwhile to add a link to that article JUST below the link to the original WIRED Magazine interview with Mahir, since the ENN article investigates the allegations raised by Mahir at that time...

http://celebs.electronicnewsnetwork.com/sacha-cohen/

I cant find a source other then IMDB but the suit "Borat" wears has never been cleaned on purpose. I do not think I saw that in there, it needs to be added, maybe as trivia.

[edit] "The Frat Boys"

Sasha Baron Cohen is now being sued by two college students which were supposed to have been made to believe that the movie will not be aired inside USA and that claim they were first put in a bar to get "tipsy" and then put in a trailer to pick up Borat. They then suffered from loss of reputation and physical disttress in their community as a result of the film.

Sob sob! :) Some guys got drunk and said some offensive things, and got their ignorance exposed for the world to see - fantastic stuff :-P Dave420 13:27, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kazachstan

Kazachstan has mixed opinions on the character and although some would prefer to kill him, some support him and laugh with. The Kazach president gave a visit to George Bush, the day after Borat was standing outside the whitehouse, asking if he could leave a message for Bush. The president did not mention Borat although "The Times" published a 4 page article about Kazachstan and writing about how civilised the country really is.

YES, HIS CHARACTER IS NOT APPLICABLE TO A KAZAKH OR WHOEVER WHO LIVES IN KAZAKHSTAN !

"In November 2005, following Borat's hosting of the MTV Europe Music Awards in Lisbon, the Kazakh Foreign Ministry voiced their concerns about the character. " No details are given about what in particular the Ministry found offensive in the performance. Maybe a brief summary of the most contentious points is in order?

"The differences between Borat's fictional homeland in Kazakhstan and the actual people and way of life in the country are so far apart that some speculate whether Cohen made it that way to be a satire of Western views of the world."

Isn't this overexplaining things a little? I got the "no shit, Sherlock" feeling from reading it. I mean, this character is making a parody on racism, prejudices and political correctness. That's the very foundation of the kind of comedy Sasha Baron Cohen uses. -- Northgrove 11:48, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

There are a lot of very stupid/ignorant/naive/misguided people out there for whom this level of clarity is helpful. Some people - especially in America where views of central Asia are typically poor and inaccurate - would likely believe this representation to be close to accurate, even if they recognise that it is a parody. I'd say, if in doubt, over-specification in an encyclopaedia is far more useful than under-specification. CastorQuinn 12:27, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

sadly CastorQuinn is right i live in america and know well basicly nothing about asia but that doesnt mean all of us dont give a shit about asia

[edit] Kazakhstan ambassador on Borat

I'd like to know how we can incorporate the comments of Erlan Idrissov [Kazakhstani Ambassador to the UK] on Borat, as found in The Times and carried by BBC News? This would make a very useful addition to this article. Ekantik 05:42, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Anthem

in the part where he gets booed at a rodeo his call for bush to drink the blood of Iraqis actually wasn't booed but was met with some looks of incredulity and substantial cheers. he only got booed when he started doing the mangled anthem.

The entry states that Borat sang a mangled version of the American national anthem at a rodeo which caused the crowd to boo him, and that this appeared in his film. In fact, what Borat sang was (his version of) the Kazakh national anthem to the tune of the American national anthem. 204.69.40.13 19:50, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Misc

I think there are still lots of people that will want to start legal actions against Cohen. Pamela Andersson has not responded to media yet about how she feels about the situation. The person responsible for inviting Borat for an interview in the live news channel has lost her job and I think will soon try and sue him, but we can't forget, this is 20th Century FOX.

at footnote twenty in the "hoax victims" section it states that certain parties decided "not to press charges." however, "charges" is a word that is only relevant to criminal proceedings. in civil matters (i.e. those brought by private parties) plaintiffs make "claims" or have "causes of action."

~~dave

Pamela Anderson gave her permission, which Kid Rock did not approve, and, well here we are.

[edit] Character Traits & Origins

[edit] Religion of Borat?

I remember seeing something about Borat's religion, saying he followed Thelema. In the Borat movie, he claims "I follow the way of the hawk". This could refer to Thelema seeing as Horus is the hawk-headed sun god. -- ErikB 18:21, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Borat and religion? don't you think that's stupid speculation on a random line from the movie? Borat is meant to be an extremely ambigious "foreign" character with an undefined religion, set of customs, and sexual preferences.

Well I was just making a guess, and I believe I had seen it somewhere too. -- ErikB 14:45, 7 November 2006

It may be a random line from the movie but when Borat is asked about religion he says, as stated above, that "I follow the way of the hawk." It would be good to update the main page to correct "eagle" to "hawk." (UTC)

He is talking about the Hawk/Eagle/Whatever on the Kazakh flag! See: The golden eagle is associated with the empire of Genghis Khan, who ruled Kazakhstan under a blue banner with such an eagle on it; thus, it is a reminder of the proud history of the people who form the modern nation of Kazakhstan.

[edit] Origins of Borat

I filmed Sacha Baron Cohen's first experiments with a proto Borat character in 1995 for LWT/Granada TV and again in 1996 for BBC's Comedy Nation; I have added a wee bit about the early development of the character and dropped mention of Mahir Çağrı and the mysterious Russian Doctor further down the acticle (these i believe are both influences on the development of Borat but not on his initial creation) Junius 09:44, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Groups such as the ADL are asking, "is it really wise to make light of Anti-Semitism as this film does"? Cspalletta 12:43, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Symantics and Syntax

[edit] Caricature vs. Satire

I think borat is more of a sex god of a satire. I didn't change it because I am completely confident in this assessment

I agree, almost all of Baron-Cohen's wearing of spandex as a very strong aspect of satire and steamy sexyness. Alternatively, its entirely possible that Borat is both a caricature and a satire? A satirical caricature? I think its important to include the satire reference though, its the fact that its blatantly satirical that stops the characters from being blatantly racist and offensive. Jdcooper 23:43, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
The satire comes out of the responses he gets from people. The caricature is the overplayed ignorance of the foreigner. "Satirical interviews" is correct, but Borat himself is a caricature.
- Agreed. Borat is a caricature for the purpose of satire.--210.241.95.245 11:30, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
I want to do the sexytime

Changed caricature to character. Caricatures only refer to the type of artwork/cartoon, not live people (regardless if they are ficitonal or not). NO MATTER, NOBODY KNOW WHO IS BORAT IN KAZAKHSTAN, BUT HE IS SERVING TO ADVERTISE MY COUNTRY TO PUBLIC MAINLY TO THE US, IT IS GOOD BUT HE BETTER NOT, NO ONE STATEMENT IN HIS ASSESSMENT IF TRUTH, HE REMIND ME PEACE CORP. VOLUTEER WHO CAME FROM THE STATES, WHO ARE STUPID AND DONT KNOW ANY COUNTRY BUT THE STATES )))

Lol.

Borat being from kazakhstan is irrelevant. He may as well be from elbonia (mah). He is a character designed to be from "backwards eastern country" used to make fun of westerners and their ignorance, be they UK drama students or American farmers. He is satire that happens to make use of a caricature of a man from the eastern block (blok?). WookMuff 03:10, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Bloc. Venicemenace

[edit] "Kazakh" vs. "Kazakhstani"

This article makes extensive use of "Kazakhstani" as an adjective. Isn't "Kazakh" correct? Or does "Kazakh" denote only someone from the Kazakh ethnic group, while "Kazakhstani" can be anyone or thing associated with the country?

Oh, and to offset this pedantic inquiry: Borat is hilarious. Wawa weewa! --Jfruh 00:44, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

If you read on the Kazakhstan page, you'll see that Kazakh refers to the members of the Kazakh ethnic group, whereas Kazakhstani means everyone from Kazakhstan. Until Borat comes out and says he's specifically of Kazakh descent, Kazakhstani is the only way to refer to him. Dave420 12:23, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

"Kazakhstani" is meaningless, despite the firm authority of the Kazakstan page--Kazakh is correct in all adjectival references as a national reference, not simply ethnic. It's feeding into the ignorance that Borat preys/plays upon to pretend there is such a word as "Kazakhstani." While other nationalities simply append the "i" suffix, Kazakhs do not.

e.g.: People from England speak English; they are frequently of the English ethnic group; they live in English houses and use standard written English, sometimes while drinking English tea. There is no special "English" ethnic group denotation with an "Englishtani" tea or "Englishstani" cars.

In the movie, Borat seems to refer to people or elements of society from his country as "Kazakhi." Given the celebrated dissimilarity between Borat's Kazakhstan and the actual Kazakhstan, it may be best to go with that term. Idiotkid 01:09, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

May I suggest you check with your nearest dictionary? They don't agree with you: Kazakh: "1. a member of a nomadic Muslim people living mainly in Kazakhstan. 2. the Turkic language of the Kazakh people." and Kazakhstani: "adj : of or pertaining to Kazakhstan or to the Kazakhs or their culture [syn: Kazakhstani] n : a native or inhabitant of Kazakhstan".Dave420 10:10, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ethnicity vs. Ancestry vs. Citizenship

Kazahk is a specific ehtnic group located within Kazakstan, however not eveybody within the country is a Kazack:

The majority of modern Kazakhstanis are currently either ethnic Kazakhs (58%) or Russians (27%), with smaller Ukrainian, Uzbek, German, Korean, Uyghur and other minorities (15%). Main religious groupings are Muslim, Russian Orthodox, Roman Catholic and Ukrainian Orthodox.

Therefore it is possible Borat is of Russian acestry or Ukaranian etc. which would actually more fit his physical appearance.

Borat should be refered to as Kazakhstani instead as Kazahk, becuase to my knowledge he has never refered to himself as a Kazahk, not to mention he is generally refered to by other's as a Kazakhstani journalist, please correct me if im wrong. -Brodey

YOU ARE NOT RIGHT THERE IS NO WORD LIKE KAZAHK(???) MAY MAYBE REFERRED TO KAZAKH? KAZAKH IS THE MAIN AND TITLE ETHNICITY THERE, HE IS NOT KAZAKH HE IS JEW )))

As we all know Sacha Baron Cohen is a Jew, by religion, but ethnically speaking he is Persian. As a Persian Jew myself, when people ask me what race I am, I say Persian, when they ask me my religion, I say Jewish, so I would appreciate it if it would be put on here some where that Sacha is ethnically Persian (not Iranian as that is a nationality), and under Sacha's religion, Jewish, I have put this on the page many times but it has been removed. His facial features lean further towards a Persian then a Israelite anyways, in my opinion. Thankyou.

-Actually, I just saw the movie and he refers to himself as a kazhak twice, once in subtitles so I'm pretty sure I couldn't have mistaken it

[edit] Unencyclopedic sentence

I removed this line recently:

However, it is not clear whether one of Sellers' characters would have told a female member of the Oklahoma City Council that he wishes to "make a romance inside of you", followed by the exclamation "all day I think of you, no clothes, wa-wa-wee-wa. That is very wonderful."

While it might be true, it is hardly encyclopedic in tone or in content. It reads like it was taken from an entertainment magazine, not a book of world knowledge. (|-- UlTiMuS 02:52, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Language

What is a krutzouli?

Small or insignificant forest animal.

Crustacean?

[edit] Armenian

Someone referenced most of the language in the movie is either hebrew or polish... Actually, pretty much all of Azamat's speech is Armenian, as he is Armenian himself (most of it is even what the dialogue is stating). ArdenD 19:28, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jagshemash

Jagshemash - "how are you?" (from the Polish "Jak się masz?", the Czech "Jak se máš?" or from "Yakshimusiz", a greeting in many Central Asian languages including the Kazakh language), sometimes used as a greeting

I have been to Kazakhstan a number of times and my wife is Kazakh, have never heard it being used in Kazakhstan also see:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/09/27/news/borat.php

I would say that, "a greeting in many Central Asian languages including the Kazakh language)" should be deleted unless someone has some evidence to support the use of it in Kazakhstan

I believe that in Azerbaijani, you can say "Yaxshisiniz?" meaning "Are you well?". The response would be "Yaxshiyam" ("I am well"). The Kazakh language belongs to the same language family as Azerbaijani (the Turkic language family), but Kazakh pronunciation differs from Azerbaijani's in systematic ways: the equivalent Kazakh expression would probably be "Zhaqsysyz ba?", with a response "Zhaqsymyn". Ask your wife, if she is familiar with these "zhaqsy" expressions.

[edit] ә to а

I changed an "ә" to an "а" in the "assumed Cyrillic" of Borat's first name. If this is incorrect (if schwa is a Kazakhstani Cyrillic letter, I guess) feel free to change it back. --Quuxplusone 14:41, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

I can confirm that the present Cyrillic spelling of Borat's name is correct, so I guess the "assumed" word can be taken out? Leijona 08:04, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Seeing as the Cyrillic letters in the show are never accurate, could we let this misspelling slide? EmpComm 22:22, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

"However, it is not clear whether or not one of Sellers' characters would have told a female member of the Oklahoma City Council that he wishes to "make romance inside of you," followed by the exclamation "all day I think of you, no clothes, wa-wa-wee-wa. That is very wonderful."" - style? (131.130.121.106 19:22, 1 September 2005 (UTC))

[edit] Lingo

Am I the only one who has a problem with this section? It's unclear as to what exactly defines lingo; some of the words are foreign (khram) while others are simply an explanation of how Borat uses that item (cage). I think this section either needs a total overhaul (maybe it will improve with more input from different users) or should just be outright deleted. WikiFew 23:37, 2 April 2006 (UTC)WikiFew

At the least, the section could be made more encyclopedic. Some of it could be merged with the "Quotes" section. I removed two Polish expressions that were already mentioned in "Background and technique". Other items on the list (e.g. "hand relief", "entry", "vagin") could stand to be deleted because their meaning doesn't really need to be explained. "Kidnapping" and "cage", if they stay in the article, should be merged into the "Beliefs" section in a further description of Borat's attitude toward women. There could be some value in an explanation of the foreign words such as "khram"; for example, are they from a real language or are they made up? --Lph 16:45, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't have an objection to such a section, although I think it could be made more encyclopedic. For example, bullet points instead of numbering. savidan^{(talk) (e@)} 10:00, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

What does 'chergui' mean, and what language does it come from?

"Dzienkuje" means "thank you" in polish

In his throw the Jew down the well song, Borat says the song is called "Nie mogę zrobić w domu woń", which roughly means "At home I cannot make a fart" in Polish: can someone please put this in the Lingo section of the article, because the page is locked. (See http://www.borat.tv/video4.html)

_________

Yes, without any doubt Borat speaks in the film Hebrew, Polish etc. as above described. Yet we shouldn't forget that BARAT [pronounced BORAT, O like in the word "other", sorry I have no phonetical signs] means FRIEND in Hungarian. Also, his retarded brother, called BELA [pronounced BELO and not ~~BIHLO~~] is a very common hungarian surename. There is a numerous Hungarian speaking population in the north-western part of Romania (Transylvania). The comedian Cohen tried to involve in his film as many as nations.

__________

While by now everyone knows that in the movie Borat mostly speaks Hebrew (and some Polish), I think the readers might like to know that Borat's producer Azamat is actor Kenneth Davitian who is an American of Armenian descent and he speaks Armenian throughout the movie. Of course, no average American could ever tell these two very different languages apart. __________

[edit] Hebrew song

Dear EyeoftheTig3r

I changed his song to the real song in Hebrew. I don't know base of what you changed it back (Controversy)?

You can check in google:

"קום בחור עצל וצא לעבודה"

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22%D7%A7%D7%95%D7%9D+%D7%91%D7%97%D7%95%D7%A8+%D7%A2%D7%A6%D7%9C+%D7%95%D7%A6%D7%90+%D7%9C%D7%A2%D7%91%D7%95%D7%93%D7%94%22&btnG=Google+Search

-OR-

http://users.tapuz.co.il/yardena/lyracis/kombahor.htm

You will find more then 20 results.

ALSO

please check what I wrote: "kum bachur atzel" in google. it's an Hebrew folk song. 20:45, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] חור

About the word "חור". It's true that in hebrew it literally means "hole" but in the context Borat uses it, it's quite obvious Baron-Cohen refers to the colloquial use, namely "distant/dasolate place". I think this clarification should be added to the literal translation provided in the entry. I can't edit the article by myself since the editing by unregistered users is disabled.

[edit] Borat Music

What language is the singing in during the music? I would guess Russian, but I wouldn't have any way of knowing for sure.

I don't know about the other two, but the song in the interludes is Korobeiniki, and indeed sung in Russian. However, the performer of this particular version is unknown - if anyone knows whose version this is, please supply this info. Ariosto 18:23, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

IT IS IN RUSSIAN HE WILL BREAK HIS TONGUE TO SING IN KAZAKH ) I KNOW

Anyone can download Borat movie soundtrack here

The song played during the Borat segments on the Ali G show is a popular Russian folk song Korobeiniki (also known as "How full is my basket" or the "Tetris song") The full lyrics and sample melody can be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korobeiniki

An excellent rendition of Korobeiniki was performed by the male vocal ensemble Chanticleer on their album "Wonderous Love" under the Title "Oy polna polna korobushka"

[edit] Borat's Written Language/The Borat Code

I just added this section. Here is some additional information which may or may not be appropriate for the article:

Some of the lowercase characters appear somewhat different from their uppercase counterparts because of the "italic" or cursive type used in the captions. This is nicely explained at Cyrillic alphabet#Letter-forms and typography.

The captions at the beginning and end of each segment are not exact encodings of the diplayed English text. They decode as follows:

ЗЩ ЛФЯФЛРЫЕФТЫЛЩЬГ ЕУДУМШЯЩКГ ("KAZAKHSTAN TELEVISION PRESENTS") decodes to PO KAZAKHSTANSKOMU TELEVIZORU

ПШВ ИЩКФЕФ Л ФЬУКШЛШ ("BORAT'S GUIDE TO AMERICA") decodes to GID BORATA K AMERIKI

Are "PO KAZAKHSTANSKOMU TELEVIZORU" and "GID BORATA K AMERIKI" transliterations of a real language?

*Also, is there any significance to the particular mapping used in this code, or is it random?

--Lph 21:40, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Answered my own question about the mapping: it is a Russian keyboard layout mapped onto the QWERTY layout. Will note this in the article. --Lph 22:57, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

"По Казахстанскому телевизору" (Po Kazakhstanskomu Televizoru) means "On the Kazakhstans telly" in Russian.

"Гид Бората к Америке" does not make much sense in Russian, direct translation would be "Guide of Borat for America". I think it was meant to mean "Borat's Guide to America", but preposition "к" does not mean English "to" in this context (it does in some other contexts), and IMHO noun "гид" is meant to mean "guide-person". The correct version would have been "Путеводитель Бората по Америке" (Putevoditel' Borata po Amerike). If you wanna learn Russian, you could grab the following link to a Russian dictionary: http://lingvo.yandex.ru/, then click on "виртуальная клавиатура" for a virtual Russian keyboard. Cheers, Constantine. MureninC 00:28, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

ANYWAY IT REMINDS ME SOME EAST EUROPEAN LANGUAGE —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.154.155.115 (talk • contribs) 13:24, 12 September 2006 (UTC).

The bit on the 'Russian code' is wrong. There is a fairly decent 1:1 mapping between most Cyrillic and Latin characters. Looks like the original poster simply remapped his keyboard and hit every key to come up with the 'code', but the Russian and English keyboard are not mapped the same way (ie. vowels aren't in the same spots, etc.).

I don't have a Russian keyboard close right now to post the correct mapping, but this would be something worth fixing over time. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.18.142.123 (talk • contribs) 07:05, 1 November 2006 (UTC).

This whole section is completely dubious and blatant OR. I have removed it to put the article in line with Wikipedia policy on original research. Roydosan 14:05, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

I originated this section of the article, but I would now agree that, while the information was accurate (I figured out the "code" by comparing, letter for letter, the English and Cyrillic captions from the first HBO season of Da Ali G Show, before realizing that the Cyrillic captions were most likely created by someone remapping their keyboard and typing the English captions), it was original research and was also forming a disproportionately large section of the article. --Lph 14:43, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Polish

Is Borat, the character not a cleaver way of depicting the Polish stereotype?

It's a cleaver way of depicting the small mindedness of people like you.

What is the purpose of the above edit? It doesn't add to the discussion in any meaningful way now does it.

"Jak się masz" is clearly polish, as is "dziękuję". Also Borat states that his favourite drink is a blend of vodka with horse urine. Zubrówka is popular Polish drink that is rumored to contain vodka and urine of a bull.

Zubrowka is made from vodka flavoured with a herb called bison grass (sweet grass). There's a stem of the herb in the bottle. It has nothing to do with bull's urine, honestly! 86.6.7.45 12:54, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

The obvious question is why Sacha Baron Cohen would use a character from Kazakhstan? Perhaps because its easier to make fun of a country that is further removed, both on the map, and in the minds of the target audience.

Sacha Baron Cohen must have come up with the concept of an Eastern European somewhere, and possibly from encounters with Polish immigrants in his native Britan.

Please kindly observe that Poland has never counted as Eastern Europe geographically (the geographical centre of Europe is located either within, or very close to, Polish borders), and can't be so classified on social, politcal and cultural grounds since at least 1989.Ariosto 03:08, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm annoyed my legitmate Borat soundboard link was removed. –I would assume that that 'legitimate' Borat Soundboard used Copyrighted works SolotaireDeaton 22:16, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

- The reason why Borat uses some polish words when he talks is -from what I have heard - that one of his real producers are from poland and aids him with words that sound real to someone that don't know nor polish or kazick

[edit] Ideas for Article Expansion

i feel that the warning on the top of the page saying that the article may need clean up due to expressing fictional ideas in a true setting is unneeded, since the first sentence of that section states that the following is Borat's back story according to Sascha Baron Cohen. -thanks

[edit] Borat VW

the last section about the car has nothing to do with the character and should have it's own article. 71.131.52.62 13:00, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

"Its." --24.131.9.50 00:35, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

I feel like this section does not belong in this article at all. Problem is, there is so little written about the car in its section that I don't really feel capable of simply moving it into its own article. Could someone who knows more about this car start a separate article for it, or maybe the section should just be dropped? Shaggorama 11:41, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, Coul it not be joined with the VW jetta, the US & Europeant naming for this car? XdamX

Yeah, this definately has no place in this article. Having skimmed through the Volkswagen Jetta article, it doesn't appear to have this particular piece of information. I'll post the whole section on the VW Jetta talk page (from where someone who knows more about the Jetta can integrate it into the article), and I'll remove the section from this article and add a link to the Jetta article in its place. --Doug (talk) 19:28, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Misheard Quotes

[edit] "Womens are allowed in cinema?"

"Womens are allowed in cinema? What? In my country we have a pane outside cinema for animals and womens."

huh? explain. dposse 16:51, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

In this article it says: "Borat appeared on Fox News where both hosts laughed constantly throughout the interview. But Gretchen Carlson could not stop even when Borat expressed his astonishment when she stated that she would see the movie on Saturday: "You let women in cinemas here? They should pay extra to sit outside with animals and jews!""

But if you listen to the interview you hear the quote is not correct: http://youtube.com/watch?v=spvIO0K3lwQ Go to 5,35 minutes, listen.

I corrected it, I can't remember if he said 'outside cinema' or just outside, feel free to listen and fix it completely if it's wrong. MGlosenger 01:42, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

He said "outside cinema". And there's a "what?" in between the two sentences, not that that is of great importance.

[edit] "If any A-hole Uzbekistan are listening..."

There is a particular word that Borat uses in the guide to country music and in his spot on Night of Too Many Stars. In guide to country music he used it in the KZ name of "In My Country There is Problem" and with Jon Stewart he said "If any A-hole Uzbekistan are listening Nomogsovic Adzonathon mother[censored]" That is what I think the spelling is but I can't find any thing on google that uses that spelling and I'm curious as to what the word he is using means. I think it is my country or is something about KZ. If you guys know I would appreciate it. J-Axe

[edit] "bing bang" song

What is the "bing bang" song where he makes clicks and twitches his eyelids?--Sonjaaa 19:25, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

I think it is a made-up song. It is supposed to be by the (fictional) pop star Korki Buchek. --Lph 18:15, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "homosexuals no longer have to wear blue hats"

"homosexuals no longer have to wear blue hats".

I thought he wrote that it was not true that homosexuals no longer have to wear blue hats? --Sumple (Talk) 06:18, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

I think the line was something about Kazakhstan being tolerant, for example homosexuals no longer have to wear blue hats. Or something like that. Gdo01 02:10, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

You can find this quote on Youtube - he says it multiple times at various press releases, so there is not one specific wording. However, he's quite clear that the point is that Kazakhstan is progressive because homosexuals NO LONGER have to wear blue hats (additionally, women can ride on inside of bus and the age of consent has been raised to 12 - although this age changes in different video clips). I am a new user and cannot edit any of this information myself.

[edit] "follows the hawk."

Didn't he say that he followed the comic character the "Hulk" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hulk)?

I am pretty sure he said "I follow the Hawk" in reference to the hawk on the flag of his home country this makes much more sense to me. Daniel J. Leivick 22:19, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree that he said "hawk." When I saw the movie I was certain that the statement was a reference to the flag of Kazakhstan, which according to its wikipedia entry depicts a golden steppe eagle. I have added a link to this as I think this is the only reasonable interpretation that I could make of this comment. Uniuni 15:43, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Scene Specific

[edit] "Hunting deer...then Jew."

I saw the movie tonight, but I did not see this scene:

One Borat scene involves his visiting the Serengeti Range in Texas, where the owner of the ranch reveals himself to be so anti-Semitic as to believe that Hitler's 'Final Solution' was a necessity for Germany. He further implies (with the egging on of Borat) that he would have no problem running a ranch where people can hunt, in Borat's words, "deer... then Jew."

. Was it taken out? Bubba73 (talk), 03:13, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

I've seen all the deleted scenes and the movie but I have never seen this. I think I heard about it which probably means this is from the TV show not the movie. Gdo01 03:16, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

This article is about the character, not just the movie. That scene was from the Ali G show, though it was possibly filmed previous to that in umm whatever show SBC was on before The Ali G show WookMuff 10:48, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

That scene is availabel at youtube. It rox.--81.231.109.219 21:31, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-M1AKVGD-FU --Epeefleche 05:44, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What if the portrayals had been reversed?

Can anyone imagine the outrage that would insue if a comedian from Kazakhstan had pretended to be a Jew and made such a derogetory and insulting portrayal of the Jewish people? Of course it'd be a cold day in hell before any such film would be released by a major Hollywood studio. Or what if the culture being mocked were Black (African American, African, Carribean, or whatever)? I imagine there would have been riots in the streets of America if any such film were to make it to the theatres. But I guess since the victim culture was one which most Americans know almost nothing about and which doesn't have any sort of influential minority community in the States then it's ok to make shit up about them and laugh at them as being a bunch of stupid backwards butt-fuckers...

Of course defenders of the film will likely argue that it was an over-the-top farce comedy that nobody will take seriously, but for many Americans, this will be their first impression of the nation of Kazakhstan, a nation they know nothing about, and a nation which (at least as far as I know) never did (the British Jew) Sacha Baron Cohen any harm. So I think Mr. Cohen owes the people of Kazakhstan an appology for his completly unwarranted bigotry against their nation. 128.206.155.237 17:56, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree the smears against Kazakhstan were unfair, and a few Western commentators have started to address this. I started a new section in the article to discuss these criticisms. Helvetica 19:21, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

You'd have to be pretty naive to even entertain the notion that Borat's Kazakhstan is in any way representative of the real-world version. Your analogy would be more akin to someone dressing up in an alien costume, saying they're Jewish, then trying to eat a bag of nails - nonsensical at best, with no basis in reality. That wouldn't make anyone upset in the slightest. The disappointment from Kazakhstan is from the great efforts Kazakhstan has made in self-development in recent years, trying to be a normal European/central-Asian country. The only people who are getting upset with this movie are people lacking either a sense of humour, or knowledge of the world past their own borders. Dave420 13:39, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

The "Boratistan" in the movie is so obviously fake, yet the depicted America is absolutely true. So which country really gets the smear? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.97.74.170 (talk) 02:34, 12 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] "Nonfiction"

One section of the article describes the film as "nonfiction." I'm not sure this is really accurate. It's true that many of the scenes were filmed with people (non-actors) who believed that a real documentary was being made, but of course the main character and his side-kick were both actors and their characters were completely made up and their pretense was completely false. So I think we should try and come up with a better label than "nonfiction" for the film. Helvetica 20:16, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

It most definitely is not non-fiction. The entire journey and plot is engineered, including "twists", and the fictionality is obscured from the film. In other words, the 4th wall is in full-effect, and as such is not non-fiction :) Dave420 13:41, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Russian to Kazakh Cyrillic

Um.. Yeah.. So I went ahead and changed the heading in front of the Cyrillic version of Borat's name from "Russian" to "Kazakh Cyrillic"... Mainly because he's not purpotedly Russian and has nothing to do with Russia, and since there is a Kazakh Cyrillic alphabet I thought it more appropriate for the entry to reflect such.

[edit] Korki Buchek

I have added Korki Buchek (Corky Bucek) to the Lingo section, taking care to be concise and make it clear that he is fictional. The spelling "Korki Buchek" has been deciphered from the captions in an MTV promotional video so I am assuming it to be the canonical spelling. --Lph 17:02, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

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