Talk:Boise, Idaho

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Peer review Boise, Idaho has had a peer review by Wikipedia editors which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article.
Flag of Idaho

This article is part of WikiProject Idaho, a WikiProject related to the U.S. state of Idaho.

This article is part of the WikiProject on Cities which aims to improve and standardize articles on cities, towns, and other municipalities of the world. Make suggestions for improving multiple articles on these subjects at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cities.

Contents

[edit] Pronounced BOY-See

Life long resident of Boise - there is no controversy that I've heard on how to properly pronounce Boise. It is boy-see. I've never heard a local pronounce it with a z, or claim that you could go either way.

Seriously, since when does a city article include the nicknames... especially the ones that no one seems to have heard of before? I nominate the deletion of it, simply because it doesn't seem professional nor portrays a positive image of Boise. Cutlerite 19:47, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

The people writing the Chicago and New York City pages don't seem to have a problem discussing their cities nicknames. These are a few examples. Is Chi-town unprofessional as well?

[edit] Pronounced BOY-See

Can somebody tell me, is it pronounced "Boys", or "Boys-ee"? (Or something else?) GRAHAMUK 11:57, 27 Oct 2003 (UTC)

It's pronounces "Boys-ee" or "Boy-zee". -- 67.75.231.4


depends on the native to boise. I think If you've lived in boise your whole life, you pronounce it Boy-See, but only if you're older. Young natives say Boysee OR Boyzee, but as a californian, i've never heard any non-idahoans pronounce it Boysee.


Natives will argue it is always pronounced "Boy-see" never "Boy-zee". -JonMoore 10:03, 21 Jan 2004 (UTC)


Propose to merge the article Boise City, Idaho into this one and to modify the appropriate links on that page. Any objections? --CeltMDC 20:40, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)

As a former Boise resident this seems appropriate, I have never heard it referred to as "Boise City" in a standalone form (although this may be official) --JonMoore 04:56, 17 Mar 2004 (UTC)

No, no, no. It is always pronounced "Boy-Zee." The only people who say "Boy-See" are not from Idaho.


I grew up (1960's-1970's) in a town within a 30-mile radius of Boise. Both my parents were born in southern Idaho and went to high school in Boise (when both their families moved there). One of my grandparents was born within the 30-mile radius of Boise. I grew up hearing (and using) the pronunciation Boy-See rather than Boy-Zee in my family and among my friends at school. My observation is that people who have not grown up in the Boise valley generally use the Boy-Zee pronunciation, and people who have grown up there use the Boy-See pronunciation. There are many people who have grown up in the Boise area who use the Boy-Zee pronunciation, however. I suspect this may be related to how recently the family has moved to the Boise area. My experience in traveling is that the Boy-See pronunciation is rarely heard outside the Boise area (unless the speaker grew up there and moved away as an adult). When I am outside the Boise area -- I went to undergraduate and graduate school "back east" -- my Boy-See pronunciation is something that people have frequently remarked on in my speech. If current local Boise media pronunciation (radio and TV news, public affairs, and advertising) is any indication of a local standard, my impression is that Boy-See is used far more frequently than Boy-Zee is. Turophile 04:14, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

You are correct, the person who wrote the comments above yours was anonymous and also vandalized some pages (i checked it soon after they wrote it) __[[User:JonMoore|JON, Conqueror of Men - (Talk to Me, Baby!)]] 04:47, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Sir, Last time I checked, the Wikipedia's purpose was not to convey inaccurate or incorrect information. Yet, you seem to be on a mission to do that very thing.

The pronunciation of the city is simple: "Boy-see." There is not letter "z" in the French word Bois, which is the root of the city's name.

Your compromise is not based in factual reality. The passage should, quite simply, read: Boise (pronounced "Boy-see")...

I work in television news in the Boise area -- and we get a FLOOD of calls whenever a new reporter pronounces the name of the city wrong.

Perhaps I should add to the following articles:

  • Oregon (pronounced Ore-uh-gun by natives, or Ore-uh-gone by people who don't know better)
  • Nevada (pronounced Nev-add-uh by natives, or Nev-ah-duh by people who don't know better)
  • Spokane (pronounced Spoke-ann by natives, or Spo-kane by people who don't know better)

Everyone in this thread has made the point that the pronunciation is Boy-see but you sir. Do you think you are the ultimate arbiter of the Wiki?

Boisemedia 21:21, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I was, Sir, simply trying to convey that there are more than one opinion of how the name is pronounced. Having previously lived in Boise for a number of years, I agree most natives pronounce the word "BOY-see". The etymology of the word is from the French boisé, pronounced "bwah-ZAY" or something similar, which means "wooded". This information is from the Idaho Historical Society.
I myself, out of personal preference, do pronounce it "BOY-see" and was simply trying to give all opinions equal time. I believe that is what Wikipedia is about. Being fair and equal. I would rather work with you rather than against you to make a good Wikipedia article for Boise. If you so feel to only give one side of the debate, than by all means, revert it. If you wish to, in good journalistic fashion, present all sides of the coin, then leave it as I wrote. I leave it in your hands. Thank You. [[User:JonMoore|Jon, Conqueror of Men | (Talk!)]] 21:46, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I would simply point you to the City of Boise's official website http://www.cityofboise.org/public_information/. That seems to make it pretty clear. Both sides of the coin are now presented, in neutral fashion.

Boisemedia 22:08, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I actually apologize. I wrote this, submitted it, then thought for a bit, tried to change it and resubmit, but Wikipedia crashed my computer, and it didn't go through. As I said, I would like to work to make this a good page.

If you feel that strongly about the pronounciation, it is not important enough to me to get into a flame/edit /revert war over it with you. I simply wanted to present that natives feel it is always pronounce "BOY-see", which we seem to agree upon, and that many people also pronounce it "BOY-zee" I have bigger fish to fry, as they say. Please do as you like.

[[User:JonMoore|Jon, Conqueror of Men | (Talk!)]] 23:43, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)

i'm living outside boise right now, and everyone calls it boy-zee, and i always correct them. but really not many people care that much. i think that us boy-"see" people have a lot of pride about our name, which i do too, but i've noticed that mostly people just get annoyed.


This conversation is ridiculous. If Wikipedia is about presenting factual information, then it should be said that people generally pronounce the city's name in one of two ways, and then list both those ways. These pronunciations aren't opinions, they aren't wrong, they're the way people pronounce the name. Wikipedia shouldn't be prescribing one prounciation based on the linguistic preconceptions of any particular person, whether that person has been a lifetime resident or happens to work in the local media.

_______

Although natives call is "Boi-see" and attest that this is correct, the actual French pronunciation is with a "Z". No matter though; it really is true that those who arent native use a Z sound and those who live here use an S sound...we can tell the difference.

[edit] Boise Population

I heard a news report tonight (I live in Boise) which put Boise's population - individually, not the metropolitan area - over 200,000, which makes it the 3rd largest city in the northwest (passing Spokane and Tacoma, and making it third only to Seattle and Portland, respectively). I don't have the time to dig up the specific study or numbers at the moment, but if someone would like to look into it, it'd be worth noting. The explosive growth of the area as a whole might be worth mentioning, as well, but perhaps some of that should be included in greater depth under the Boise metropolitan area entry. Each of the surrounding cities has experienced at least 5% growth in the last few years, and Meridian had an amazing 17% growth according to the study cited on the news. Sorry I don't have a specific reference, but hopefully someone can find it soon, and if not I'll look into it myself.

The Boise metropolitan area entry also deserves some fleshing out, as the area is incredibly fast growing and rather renowned as a fast-growing, comfortable and opportunity-rich area.--happyferret 04:33, Apr 26, 2005 (UTC)

I added some information from a recent COMPASS study (via a KTVB story: [1]. It could use more background. Boisemedia 19:48, August 21, 2005 (UTC)
I addressed a lot of this in the article. According to Census figures Boise itself hasn't grown much between 2000 and 2003, but Caldwell, Meridian, and Nampa have. Nampa's population jumped by well over 20 percent in those three years (!!). City of Boise estimates put the metro area at over half a million now. --Faustus37 18:20, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A note on schools

There has been some confusion over the high schools entry.

Boise has five mainstream public high schools -- Borah, Boise, Capital & Timberline from the Boise district -- and Centennial from the Meridian district. Centennial is actually within Boise City Limits -- but is the only Merdian HS to meet that criteria. Boisemedia 19:37, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] "Written by?"

I don't believe it is wikipedia convention to credit individual authors/editors in the text of the article. There is currently a "written by" attribution at the end of the "History" section. I will remove it. While the prose is generally very good, this article also has a bit of a "promotional" feel to it. Other editors may want to address this. TMS63112 16:34, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

The vast majority of the text in this story is now copyvio (pretty much everything in the introduction and history sections). See: [2] This needs to be promptly addressed and removed. Anyone see an easy fix? Boisemedia 01:13, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
I deleted the Introduction and History sections as they were copied verbatim from Wcities. They were added by an anon on 29 October 2005, and archive.org confirms Wcities has had the content since February. The "written by" attribution was, in fact, the Wcities author. Sam8 14:48, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Boise City vs. Boise

I notice there's a redirect to "Boise, ID" from "Boise City, ID", and that this article's Geography section calls the city "Boise City". The list of metropolitan statistical areas also gives the name Boise City (see #90 in the list). Clearly these two names are referring to the same place and clearly Boise is the common name of the city... is Boise City the official name? (I for one have always heard "Boise" but have run into "Boise City" enough that I don't think it's insignificant.)

It would be helpful if someone could find out and make the distinction clear in the article (possibly in the opening paragraph.) Krong 06:53, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

This has been a common confusion for years. Boise City is not the capital of Idaho, it is a very small town in Oklahoma. I think what sustains the confusion is that the word "city" is included in the title of some official agencies in Boise, ID. The word gets capitalized as part of the name, and make it look like the official name might be Boise City. Example: Independent School District of Boise City, which is an official name of the district, but you can see on it's web page that the common-used term is "Boise School District". There is also the use of "Boise City" to distinguish it from "Boise County" in Idaho government, as in "Boise City residents", as opposed to "Boise County residents". (Boise is in Ada County.) Outside those contexts, I've never heard it called "Boise City" in common usage. The city web site uses "Boise", "City of Boise", "Boise City", and "Boise city" interchangeably.--Gandalf2000 16:10, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
Thanks! Krong 06:25, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
The official name is simply "Boise," but both old and new maps and other documents occasionally refer to the city as "Boise City." Glean from that what you will. --Faustus37 18:21, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
The use of "Boise City" was commonly used from the founding until the 1950's. This was to prevent confusion with "Fort Boise" and Boise County. This was gradually dropped from maps during the 1950's when the Interstate Highway system came through. If you look at old maps of Idaho, it is called "Boise City". "Fort Boise" was originally built by the Hudson Bay Company in 1834, 50 miles west of the city near the current city of Parma. "New Fort Boise" (Once located North of the city, of Boise, the city has since grown to surround the Fort) was built by the US Army in 1863. And yes, it is pronounced Boy`see. --Mushrom 18:50, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Basic outline for the translation

I’d like to ask what you think about which information should be represented in the translation of this article to the other language, and what could be omitted. I’m not talking about basic stuff like founding date or ethymology and the like, but rather about some region specific info that may or may not be relevant to international readers. theUg 02:35, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Certainly I would include any references to Boise's Basque community, which is the largest Basque population outside of their homeland.-Gandalf2000 21:04, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
It's actually not (there's a larger Basque community in Argentina), but Boise is the largest Basque community in the United States. Regardless, the Basque community is a big part of Boise. No translated article would be complete without mentioning it. You should also mention Boise's stake in the technology economy as well as the region's recent population surge. --Faustus37 18:30, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Boise and Spokane, Which is Bigger?

I amended the statments on population to reflect the following. There is no doubt that Boise is the third largest metro area in the Pacific Northwest behind Seattle and Portland. See List of United States metropolitan statistical areas by population.

However, regardless of what the Boise media says, 2003 US Census estimates do place the city of Spokane (196,624) [3] just slightly ahead of Boise in population (190,117) [4].

Spokane grew 0.5 percent between 2000 and 2003 while Boise grew 2.2 percent in the same period. I think it's only a matter of time before Boise's claim to be the third largest city in the PNW comes true, but not yet. --Faustus37 17:23, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Spokane is bigger, there is no argument or doubt, just look at the census.
First, thanks for signing. Second, there is argument AND doubt. The COMPASS report (cited in the story) casts that doubt. The phrasing as written is balanced. 2004 population estimates put Spokane at 196,721, while Boise is listed at 190,122. Spokane grew by just more than 1,000 people from 2000 to 2004, while Boise grew by about 5,000 people. It is possible, and actually quite likely that Boise has surpassed Spokane. Boisemedia 07:04, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
the compass is from that region,and so is the media, so they are bias. the census says that spokane is larger by over 6000 people.
boise may be growing faster, but that does not mean that it is bigger.
The Boise metro area (as defined by The US Census Dept.) is larger than the Spokane Metro Area.

Spokane proper is larger than Boise proper. If the Metro areas of Spokane (435,644) and Coeur D'Alene (122,350) were combined, as they should be due to the proximity of the two, and the nonstop sprawl between Spokane and CD'A, then Spokane proper and metro would be larger. Works Cited 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_metropolitan_statistical_areas_by_population 2. http://www.google.com/search?q=435%2C644+%2B+122%2C350&sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official SpokaneWilly 03:54, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

It wouldn't surprise me all that much if Spokane and CDA were merged into a single metro area at some point, but the fact remains it hasn't happened yet. The Census Bureau is behind on some things (note that the micropolitan area of Twin Falls is considerably larger than the metropolitan area of Lewiston, for example).
Even so, given the lack of another universally accepted source, I think we should go with the Census estimates which tell us Spokane city proper is larger than Boise city proper, but the Boise metro area is larger than the Spokane metro area (for now). --Faustus37 18:52, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, that makes sense, so the page should not say that boise may be larger than spokane. it should say the metro is larger. the only proof we have is the 2000 census, so that is what will have to be on the page, there shouldnt be any mights or could bes70.56.126.209 06:07, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

These Census estmates "prove" absolutely nothing one way or another, especially considering (1) the latest numbers are three years old now and (2) even those showed a difference of less than four percent combined with a significantly higher historical rate of growth in Boise. It could very well be that as of 2006 Boise is indeed larger than Spokane. The problem is there's no definitive source to prove or disprove that (at least none I've seen). I have a feeling this matter won't be settled until the 2010 Census, and even then it'll be pretty close.
In the meantime, the claim is hotly disputed, but hardly disproven. The article should reflect that. --Faustus37 16:36, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

The article should show that Spokane is bigger than boise. SpokaneWilly 05:25, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

According to 2003 Census estimates, the article very clearly states Spokane is larger. This is not in dispute. As of 2006, however, the subject is open for debate. --Faustus37 23:29, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

According to this link, the US Census considers Spokane to be it's own metropolitin area. However, Boise is connected to Nampa toi make the "Boise Metropolitin Area". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_metropolitan_statistical_areas_by_population. You will find that in this breakdown, Boise ranks higher then Spokane because of how they draw up the area. And I am not surprised. Even back in the early 1980's, we frequently refered to the area as "Boswell", meaning that everything between Boise and Caldwell was basically one large city. I have not been to Boise since 1995, but I doubt that has changed in the last 11 years. Mushrom 1416, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Adding the "Weasel" tag with out discussion is against the spirit of Wikipedia. I've removed it. Also, I restored earlier -- balanced -- language explaining the "third largest" claim, then pointing out that the information is contradicted. I don't think anyone here really thinks that Spokane is larger than Boise any longer, evidence and imperial data supports that. However, until new census figures are released, both sides should be presented. Also, one further note -- the debate is over the CITY of Boise and the CITY of Spokane, not the MSAs. Boise is larger than Salt Lake City by defining strict city boundaries, but clearly that metropolitan statistical area is much larger. Are we at compromise -- or should the language be further clarified? Boisemedia 06:26, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

I think that spokane is larger, and if the MSAs were combined, as they should be, spokane/cda would be much larger, and yes, that is fine. spokane is also larger than salt lake city, and spokane is also larger than boise. 2000 census is the ONLY official data until 2010!SpokaneWilly 03:25, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, you're wrong. But that's just my opinion. Regardless -- all Census data is acceptable, and we should get a new estimate this year. But again, this isn't MSA population we are dealing with -- it's city population. Boisemedia

[edit] What About Tacoma?

I did a little more research on this. It appears to me that Tacoma has just as strong a claim, if not stronger, than Boise or Spokane as the third-largest city in the PNW.

In terms of city proper, according to 2003 Census estimates the five largest cities in the PNW in order are: Seattle (569,101) [5], Portland (538,544) [6], Tacoma (196,790) [7], Spokane (196,624) [8], and Boise (190,117) [9].

Metro areas break out like this:

Seattle-Bellevue-Everett, WA - 2,421,417
Portland-Vancouver-Beaverton, OR-WA - 2,064,336
Tacoma, WA - 745,411
Boise City-Nampa, ID - 524,884
Spokane, WA - 435,644

NOTE: Seattle and Tacoma are technically part of the same metro area, but they're also officially separated by the Census Bureau in "Metropolitan Divisions," which I'm using here. [10]

In short, Tacoma, Spokane and Boise are in a virtual tie for third place when considering city proper populations. If you consider Tacoma as a separate metro from Seattle, it's the third largest. If you don't, then Boise is the third-largest.

Conclusions:

  • Seattle and Portland are clearly first and second in population.
  • Tacoma, Spokane and Boise are for all practical purposes the same size when dealing strictly with the cities.
  • Boise's metro area is bigger than Spokane's (and no, you can't count Coeur d'Alene as part of Spokane just because you want to).
  • Tacoma as a separate metro area is bigger than both Boise and Spokane.
  • Boise can make a claim as the third-largest city in the PNW, but only with a considerable amount of fudging and spin.

--Faustus37 18:03, 30 June 2006 (UTC) Boise is bigger than Spokane now. Google it if you dont believe me; the newest COMPASS reports put Boise proper at nearly 239,000. Having lived in both Boise, Seattle, and Spokane for the last 19 years, I can attest that although Boise used to lag behind, it has definately surpassed Salt Lake, Tacoma, and Spokane to become the PNW's 3rd largest. The AP had an article about this in April(?) I believe, spelling it all out.

[edit] County populations

If it helps any, the Boise-area planning agency, Compass (http://www.compassidaho.org) lists 2006 estimates of Ada County's population (including Boise, Meridian, Eagle, Kuna) at 383,314 and Canyon County's population (including Nampa, Caldwell) at 175,781, for a total of almost 560,000. The Boise MSA was expanded by the Census Bureau a few years ago to also include Elmore (Mountain Home), Owyhee and Gem (Middleton) counties, so the MSA total is around 600,000.

According to the Census Bureau, the population of Idaho grew 2.4 percent from mid-'04 to mid-'05, to 1,429,096, making Idaho the third-fastest growing state, behind Nevada and Arizona.

Sca 17:18, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Actually, the Boise MSA officially includes Ada, Boise, Canyon, Gem, and Owyhee Counties. Ada and Canyon, of course, make up the vast majority of the population. Elmore County comprises the separate Mountain Home micropolitan area.
Some of this doesn't make much sense. I personally believe Payette County has a closer association with Boise than Owyhee County, but Payette County is part of the Ontario, Oregon micropolitan area. Apart from Homedale, Owyhee County is a whole lot of nothing.
In practical terms, Elmore County is split between two regions. Mountain Home tends to gravitate towards Boise, while Glenns Ferry is more associated with the Magic Valley region, but I digress ... --Faustus37 14:40, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pronunciation and nickname

Pronunciation has been throughly dealt with in this article. The added graph is not needed. Also, the odd paragraph attempting to give Boise a nickname is both a) untrue and b) uneeded. No one has called Boise by that name. It fails the Google test, you can't cite it - and it's just plain untrue. Boisemedia 07:36, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Response

Not all true information is on the Internet. You cannot naively assume that which shows up on google is true and that which does not is false. Bobo is a legitimate nickname for Boise which is used by at least several hundered people in the North End. It shouldn't be such a surprise to those who have not heard it. Our downtown mall is called BoDo a contraction of Boise and Downtown which is itself a variation of Bobo.

A) Sign your posts B) Do not edit others C) your content is not verifable (which you will see below EACH AND EVERY edit box). Without citation your entry will not stand. Boisemedia 00:45, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

It sure is funny how "Boisemedia" complains about signing posts and is so interested in controlling the Boise Wiki page. Wiki is for people. The media already have TV and Radio!

 - The People

"Bobo" is'nt legit. If Bobo is legit, then so is "B-town", Bwa-seee", and "B-shizle". Put that in those in there too. -me

Cosigned. I've spent the majority of my life in Boise and have never once heard a single human being udder the term "Bobo." Also the general consensus about "Bodo" is that most Boise natives have a strong dislike for the term. I don't feel that it belongs in the article at all, all it will serve to do is to justify non-natives to call Boise "Bobo." - JoshuaJenkins

I remember hearing my grandmother call the town "Bobo", that was back in the 1970's though. She lived in the North End (28th & Hill). But generally, it was not a widely used name, and largely fell out of use by the 1980's. Mushrom 16:48, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I suggested to Joseph Coffland, (the guy who started the Bobo nickname paragraph) a long while ago that there should be a separate link to all of the nicknames that boise can be called, as well as the pronunciation debate. He responded, "In short, you caught me. The nickname Bobo is editorial promotion of my own view point. I think Boise's Wikipedia page is a cool place for public access media. I can't control the local new paper, radio or TV but I can edit Wikipedia." -Cutlerite 03:19, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Downtown Mall & Towne Square

"Downtown Boise's economy has been threatened by extensive growth around the Boise Towne Square Mall and an increasing number of shopping centers which have sprung up around new housing developments. Events such as Alive-after-Five and First Thursday have been created to combat this trend."


- Does there really need to be an external link for the boise town square mall on the page? It seems unnecessary to me. http://www.boisetownesquare.com/html/index3.asp

-- not only does there not need to be a link to the Mall, its backwards. The mall area is being threatened by the enormous growth of downtown retail. Ask any other person in commercial real estate downtown (such as myself) and you'll see what I mean. -me

[edit] Climate

I'm afraid I don't have much time at the moment to work on it, but if anyone wants to take it up I think this page could definitely benefit from a climate section as per most of the other American city articles on wikipedia. --70.179.119.138 06:40, 7 August 2006 (UTC)