Talk:Black Power

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Contents 1 Edit 2 One sided 3 POV section 4 Racist point of view 5 This article needs serious work 6 Deacons 7 Criticisms Section

[edit] Edit

Fixed "where as" to "whereas" under "white power", pointed out that some of the groups using the phrase "black power" are considered racist, and removed "caucasian" as a term no longer in use with reference to the white race. All done in a NPOV framework. 70.152.31.242 13:10, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Hi, my name is Joel - I'm the one that "fixed this stub". Yes, I did read the guidelines on being unbiased. The problem is, with certain political issues, even the English language itself is biased. For example the term "Black people" as opposed to "African people" - these terms are both biased. "Black people" or "African-Americans" takes away the national identity claimed by African Internationalists, Pan-Africanists, etc., whereas "African people" defines people as being members of a nation which they may not have chosen to be. Many Africans in the U.S. are taught that Africans on the continent are backward savages, and so of course they would be disgusted at the thought that they are Africans.

If anyone wishes to discuss other NPOV issues with this page, I'd be happy to hear your criticisms. In case I forget to check this talk page, my e-mail is <userwho@verizon.net>.

just a though, think how messed up this article would sound if u replace black with white? anyways i dont support white suppremecist groups and actually im a leftist, but it just came across my mind. Jobe6 00:05, July 16, 2005 (UTC)

I wholly agree with you Joel, afterall, Africa is a great nation. Wake up. The English language is not racist, people are. And to be honest, Africa does have a lot of savages. Look at the genocide in Rwhanda. Africa right now is like Nazi Germany, except it's gangs angainst gangs, factions against factions. Also, maybe people didn't chant African American Power! because it's a little absurd and most Black Power organizations didn't want African-Americans, they wanted darkly pigmented people with heritage from central and southern Africa. Lest we forget that there are Middle Easterners and whites in Africa. Would these Middle Easterners and whites from Africa be accepted into these Black Power organizations? Did any of these Middle Easterners or whites that were natives of Africa start any Black Power organizations?

Oh, and for the record, I'm not some conservative whacko, which I know some one will end up calling me. Gold Stur 15:30, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] One sided

I know this is a sensitive issue, but let's compare black power with white power for just a moment:

Black Power is a slogan which describes the aspiration of many people of varying degrees of African descent for national self-determination. The term describes a conscious choice for blacks to nurture and promote their own models of value, rather than look for other races to validate them. It calls for Blacks to identify their historical struggle and work to help themselves.

White Power has been described as a racist ideal which describes the aspiration of many people of varying degrees of European descent for recognition of their collective identity based on skin colour and what is perceived as a common 'white' culture. The term describes a desire to take pride in the state of being "White." This concept has been compared to related ideologies, such as 'Black Power' and 'Black Pride'. The phrase is thought to have been coined by George Lincoln Rockwell during a white supremacist rally in Marquedt Park, Illinois in 1967 (whereby the term began being uttered spontaneously). There is a distinct possibility that the term was coined as a reaction to the contemporary usage of the term Black Power. Today, many racialist ideological factions, such as White supremacists, White separatists, White nationalists, White Christians and Neo-Nazis, adhere to the term White Power. (part of the Neo-fascism series)

I think we're generally being slightly one-sided here. Notice how the term racism or racist isn't used in the black power article, except in reference to white power? Is it just me, or do others see this imbalance? --Joewithajay 13:57, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

The imbalance is appropriate. The terms are not parallel. Briefly, one groups doesn't have power and wants to get it. The other already has it and wants to preserve it. Those are very different situations. -Will Beback 19:25, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Surely though, both sides are working toward the same goal? The only difference is they approaching it for different ends of the spectrum.--Crais459 14:57, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

That's very subjective. While I understand the cultural aspect, it doesn't really matter which group already has power since both - by definition of their names - are about obtaining power for, or due to, their race. There's no point in tip-toeing around black power - it's still racist, no matter how deserving it may be. Also, the current situation of a group shouldn't have any effect on how they're referred to - a set of beliefs isn't based on current situations, but rather on goals and values - things which would be timeless to the belief. --Joewithajay 00:11, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to quote some of Malcom X's statements on the matter.

"If we react to white racism with a violent reaction, to me that's not Black racism. If you come to put a rope around my neck and I hang you for it, to me that's not racism. Yours is racism, but my reaction has nothing to do with racism."

On the subject of black nationalism, he said: "[W]e should control the economy of our community. Why should white people be running the banks in our community? Why should the economy of our community be in the hands of the white man? The social philosophy of Black nationalism only means that we have to get together and remove the evils, vices, alcoholism, drug addiction, and other evils that are destroying the moral fibre of our community." -Ceredhion 16:52, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

I think we need to step back for a moment and consider the meaning of Racism (or more correctly, Racial Decrimination). The United Nations defines Racial Descrimination as: "any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life" In this context, ANY individual, group, organisation or nation that sets its own agenda over that of another based on the idea of race can be considered as advocating Racial Descrimination. Malcolm X, undoubtably a great and important political figure, was a racist. Personally, I believe in the idea of Meritocracy. To paraphrase another great and important political leader, I believe that people should "not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character".--Crais459 09:40, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

A couple of things:

One, racism and racial discrimination are not the same thing. Discrimination is an act--by an individual, or more importantly by an institution. Racism is a _system_ of oppression and subjucation based on perceived biological differencs and very much interconnected to the economic system capitalism in all its forms including imperialism/colonialism. Can individuals be racist? Yes. But if that's the extent of your (mis)understanding of racism, then you're missing the point. Racism is indeed connected to unequal structures of power.

Two, Black Power was never about an emulation of white or European constructions of power. Whereas the current structures of domination --which are of the tradition of European imperialism and (neo)colonialism--attempt to sustain relationships based on limited access to power, Black Power is an attempt to redefine power itself, such that people equal power.

This article and talk page is curious and misleading given the texts and activist/intellectuals who have been left out. It is impossible to take up a meaningful discussion of Black Power and not include Richard Wright, W. E. B. Du Bois, Angela Davis, Frantz Fanon, Ella Baker, Amiri Baraka and _the_ Black Panther Party to name only a few.

My name is Sky and I can be reached at mplsslim@hotmail.com

[edit] POV section

Removed the following from the article: "Black Power has emerged as a racist call to arms amoungst Black Seperatists and Black Muslims. Although one can identify the historical origins and conditions which give rise to its implementation, it's current place in pop culture is to provide a collective identity to racist African Americans. Associated with violence and discrimination some have losely compared it to the African American version of White Neo-Nazi sepratism. In several instances, meetings have taken place between the late Tom Metzger (WAR White Aryan Resistance) and Louis Farrakhan (Nation Of Islam)about racial speratist solutions. Black Power continues to exist in academia and in the minds and hearts of racist African Americans. In a lesser sense, but still firmly rooted in the origins of the black power movement, soft forms of black racism have emerged and expanded as they easily pass the litmus test of extremism set by early black racists and seperatists involved in the black power movement. The unstoppable tide set in motion by this fringe movement can be seen in Hip Hop, black only television netowrks, black student unions and black only celebrations and festivals."

Loaded words, unsourced assertions, and entirely POV. If there's anything that can be salvaged from it, the original is here to work with, but as it stands, this is just not workable for an encyclopedia. Justin Eiler 23:50, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

I think you need to list which words are in fact "loaded." To banish an entire portion of an article because it doesn't meet your sensitivty does nothing but placate your agenda. I find your edit distractionary. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.183.90.139 (talk • contribs).

Distractionary is too big a word for me. --DanielCD 21:27, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

It may be possible to salvage some of the above - In the main it is inflammatory in the extreme, but there is something to be said for it's mention of the rise of black racism, such as "black only" organisations and the like.--Crais459 15:03, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Racist point of view

Compared to its white counterpart black power, black pride, and black nationalism only present a sugarcoated point of view. They are completely lopsided giving one a completely negative connotation and the other a completely positive connotation. It is clear that all these words are defined in an American perspective but they are not American only. That being said, all the definitions need to be changed toward a fair and ACCURATE perspective. Anonymous User 22 July 2006

[edit] This article needs serious work

I did a little cleanup, but it's sadly lacking in information and seemingly intentionally skewed toward separatism, when black power has all kinds of ideological perspectives. And it's simply not very well written. I just skimmed Sky's comments, and I agree with him/her. This piece sux. deeceevoice 08:53, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Deacons

Seems to me that the Deacons for Defense and Justice should be mentioned as a precedent. - Jmabel | Talk 02:02, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Criticisms Section

I am a long time member of the 'far left' (The majority of my life now) and in this time I have seen far, far, far more people endorcing identity politics as a valid part of 'the struggle' (or whatever you wanna call it) with the Black Panthers, as well as more extreme Black Nationalists (including self proclaimed racist organisations such as the Nation of Islam) are supported, in the same way that anti-semitism is (rightfully) slammed in the west, but the majority of thje far left praises organisations such as Hamas, which have a self proclaimed anti-semitic agenda (read their core document). It's the same thing. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gegen (talk • contribs) 23:32, 11 December 2006 (UTC).