Talk:Black Panther (comics)

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Wkipedia is an encyclopedia, so providing links that reference other African heroes makes sense.Basique 13:36, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

It's off-topic. This article is about the Black Panther. Wikipedia guidelines say to create a separate article and add a See also to this one. Otherwise, for consitency, you'd have to stick this section in every African comic-book character's entry. -- Tenebrae 13:39, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes that is exactly what I did, which is why I entered it here.

Aside from being off-topic with each, it's redundant. I'll save us the trouble of having an Admin mediate, and create the article "African characters in comics," using your well-researched information. Then you can simply add a ==See also== section. That's the way it's done in Wikiepdia. -- Tenebrae 13:48, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Hey thanks I'll use that as a catchall, it will save me having to update all those pages by hand everytime theres a change. One question though, what categories would fit?Basique 13:53, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

We can look through the list of categories. I'll find a URL for the Wiki list and post it here. In the meantime, partner, please feel free to flesh out African characters in comics. I know the sentence on comic strips is going to need a lot of research. -- Tenebrae 13:59, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks you've been a huge help! I started out working on a single page about African Gods and it all kinda blew up into a bigger project. I'll look for more content to populate the new page.Basique 14:07, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Contents 1 Re: RV 1.1 Black Panther 2 Reason for deletion 2.1 CC of posting to User talk:71.115.236.171 3 Unregistered user User:68.43.190.64 4 Excerpted CC of post at User talk:Rorschach567 5 Wakanda (comics) 6 Significant issues 7 Significant issues, Cont'd 8 Suggestion for biography 9 Two categories 10 User:Bellkins is back 11 Navbox Guidelines 12 Black Panther's "arsenal" 13 Racism in the article? 14 Term usage 15 Alias 16 Opinion?

[edit] Re: RV

cc of message posted at User talk:Rorschach567

[edit] Black Panther

Hi. I know Wikipedia has a lot of guidelines and it's impossible to know them all. Just wanted to say that if you look through the entries for Spider-Man, Daredevil (Marvel Comics) and many, many other up-to-date comics-character articles, you'll see they all follow this format that evolved through consensus by Wikipedia:WikiProject_Comics, with some explars at [[1]]. Since Wiki oeprates on consensus, I hope you don't mind if I return Black Panther to the same format as other articles in the Comics Project.

Thanks, and I'm looking forward to seeing your contributions to Comics Project. You might also enjoy Portal:Comics. Best wishes, - Tenebrae 13:39, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reason for deletion

[edit] CC of posting to User talk:71.115.236.171

Thank you for your polite posting on my talk page. I understand now, too, from your mentioning that you're sometimes on your father's computer, that you're young and it's important for others of us to be patient and understanding with some of the younger users.

As I stated on my edit summary on the History page of Black Panther (comics) — which you can access via the top-of-page tab on each article — I deleted the section because it's just a guest appearance in three issues. And unless the article is going to list every guest appearance of the Black Panther, which would likely be against the policy WP:NOT#Wikipedia_is_not_an_indiscriminate_collection_of_information, it's not encyclopedic to have a write-up about just one of those guest appearances.

The bibliography section only lists those series that star a character. Listing a guest appearance there is actually inaccurate.

I hope you understand, and I would urge you to add this Panther information to the Avengers: United We Stand page. Thank you again for the opportunity to respond, and I hope you'll continue to be part of the Wiki community. -- Tenebrae 15:06, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Unregistered user User:68.43.190.64

Please provide a citation for who or what officially announced the Panther's supposed appearance in Ultimate Avengers 2 dtv. Otherwise it's a rumor. WP:CITE, WP:VERIFY -- Tenebrae 13:56, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Excerpted CC of post at User talk:Rorschach567

I would agree that the Kirby-conception material and his temporary costume could go further into the article — good call. Likewise, the material about "rigorous intellectual and physical conditioning" etc. isn't necessary for the introduction, where the key is establishing what he is not, not the deeper detail of why he is.

Given his prominence as the first major Black superhero, and the promience of the term "Black Panther" in American history and politics, perspective on T'Challa's place in popular culture and the larger culture is important to have upfront.

The last two points are simply technical. The first-sentence phrasing that had been there is one that's consistent with ComicsProject style and with entries throughout. Also...such terms as "current" are disallowed.

I've devised a compromise version based on the above. -- Tenebrae 13:29, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wakanda (comics)

It's up and populated guys, enjoy. It's a catchall for anything that doesn't fit here and everything else on fictional Africa in Marvel comics. Wakanda (Marvel Comics) is now a redirect. --Basique 16:49, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Significant issues

I'm afraid I have to throw my consensus in with CovenantD — these are one person's opinion of what is significant. Obviously, the first appearance, first solo story, first Avengers appearance and the like are significant — but those are already covered in the main text. And anything besides those and other such already-covered milestones is opinion. I may not think the Jack Kirby issues are significant, to play Devil's Advocate, but others might. It's opinion. -- Tenebrae 20:31, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Significant issues, Cont'd

Consensus is certainly a primary goal of Wikipedia comic-related pages, as stated at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Comics. But so is the following:

Develop comics-related articles into authoritative, high-quality reference material, making Wikipedia's comics coverage better than any existing reference book!

So tell you what . . . I'm posting this back. After 24 hours if the consensus agrees with Tenebrae and CovenantD, I'll happily relent. Until then, let's give the people a chance to decide. -- ABCxyz 20:47, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Posting opinion and waiting for people to say it's not is not what I'd consider a compromise solution. Two longtime editors both agree this is POV, and stated our reasons. If you want to post something on this page, by all means; it's your right. But the POV needs to come down in the meantime. --Tenebrae 21:00, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

I tend to agree with CovenantD and Tenebrae about this. So there's your consensus right there. --Basique 16:21, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Suggestion for biography

The biography section mixes the various relaunches together. IMHO, it might be better to narrate it by author. (E.g., under Kirby, we learned that he was a mysterious African prince; McGregor fleshed out his backstory, etc.) TheronJ 21:50, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Two categories

Black Panther villains and Black Panther supporting, I have some pages planned that will require the first, is there a need for the second? --Basique 15:16, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Who are you? Please sign your posts and read this primer on Wikipedia editing policies. It'll save you and everyone a lot of trouble.

Now to reply to your question: If a villain or supporting is prominent, he deserves his own article. If they are not, then a mention on the Black Panther page may be appropriate, but not a separate page. --Tenebrae 15:00, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Check the history it was me. Guys like Moses Magnum, Sombre, Vibranium, he has a huge list of villains each with enough backhistory for a full page. : ) --Basique 15:16, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

LOL!

Hey, if they got story enough for a full article, go for it. If I had time, I'd do Erik Killmonger myself! --Tenebrae 15:20, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Cool, i'll start compiling. I was thinking about how the bigger heroes have categories just for their bit characters and villains. --Basique 15:43, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] User:Bellkins is back

He had it in the Trivia section this time, he also tried to put it back into African characters in comics. Should we seriously look at getting him warned or banned? --Basique 16:04, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Go for it. Give a two- or three-sentence description of the problem at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents. You can use me as concurrence. -- Tenebrae 18:03, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Navbox Guidelines

Please follow this link Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Comics/templates/navboxes to join in on the discussion . --Basique 12:12, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Black Panther's "arsenal"

"Fannish over detail?" This is the week for people to hurt my feelings. . . .  ;-P

I would have called my edits "out of universe perspective" myself rather than "fannish overdetail" seeing as how that's how fiction writing is supposed to be done. It looks like Tenebrae's edits get us farther away from the fiction guidelines and more into the in-universe cruft that's infected most of the fiction writing on wikipedia.

In addition, the problem with BP's "powers and abilities" section after Tenebrae's revert's is that it's entirely grounded in Priest's run, and describes a lot of stuff Panther hasn't used before or since. It's unsourced, and, as I've said, unsourceable except to a limited number of comics.

I'd be open to thoughts on how to resolve it. Could we just delete the arsenal section?TheronJ 10:56, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually, TheronJ, I agree with you that the arsenal list is a bit much — does Wikipedia really need, by way of analogy, a list of every single thing Batman's ever used in his utility belt, or can that be relegated to a fan site or an official site?

I'm actually a bit confused, though, since I was streamlining what was here to delete over-detail, and not adding "in-universe cruft". The arsenal list already existed when I came here; I think it's too much, myself, but rather than wholesale-delete it without consensus, I tried to trim it to basic information. -- Tenebrae 17:27, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

You're not adding in universe cruft, but if you delete references to authors, volumes, and issue numbers, what you're left with is in-universe writing. TheronJ 17:56, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Got it; thanks for clarifying.

While I do think this particular list is a bit much, the "fictional character biography" section is by definition in-universe writing, which is acceptable within the parameters set by Wikipedia:WikiProject Comics/exemplars (please see). But giving this much detail is arguably overboard, and I return to my Batman utility-belt analogy.

If you want to compromise, I suppose footnoting each item in the list and giving its first appearance would satisfy a reference requirement without cluttering up and overlengthening the page. --Tenebrae 00:10, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Tenebrae - let me know what you think of my current description of the Panther's arsenal. I think it's an improvement because (1) it no longer focuses on a bunch of stuff that BP used during the Priest run and no other time before or since, cool as that stuff was; (2) it's written in an "out of universe" style; and (3) it's shorter. Thanks, TheronJ 14:34, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Racism in the article?

Near the beggining, the text says something along the lines of "black panther was the first black superhero". If you click on "black" then it links to the page titled "negro". I'm not black but i still find this offensive as im sure any black person would, and im not balming anyone but i think the hyperlink should be changed to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people I'm no wiz so i can't do this myself, but will someone please help out to make it more apropriate.

Thanks! ;) -- —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.158.68.171 (talk • contribs).

Done. CovenantD 22:59, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Term usage

This article says:

The Black Panther, whose name predates the use of the term by the Black Panther Party

However it also says that the Black Panther debuted in July 1966, whereas the Black Panther Party article says:

With the death of Malcolm X in 1965, the Black Panther Party was founded

Which is accurate? Which usage of the term came first? If the political party came first, it would probably be safe to assume the character's name was based on it.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.79.49.245 (talk • contribs) .

Very good point. I'll check a second source to confirm date of Black Panther party founding. --Tenebrae 16:40, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

OK, according to the Marxists Internet Archive: Black Panther Party and elsewhere, "In October of 1966, in Oakland California, Huey Newton and Bobby Seale founded the Black Panther Party for Self-Defense."--Tenebrae 16:53, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Alias

It should be noted that the Black Panther was briefly known as the Black Leopard. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.136.11.242 (talk • contribs).

That sounds familiar. In the '70s comics maybe? Can you provide a cite? --Tenebrae 17:10, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Opinion?

The third paragraph in Publication History states, "Immediately following the initial series was the much less well-received Black Panther, written and illustrated by Jack Kirby". Can we get a reference supporting that this was "lesss well-received." This seems to be opinion, rather than fact.