Talk:Bitch

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[edit] Dog Show

Man, I was watching the dog show the other night and they kept saying, "look at that bitch", or "that bitch sure does walk it!", man I couldn't stop laughing!

Haha. I saw that. Goodthing it wasn't on public television.--71.156.120.118 03:07, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] move bitch

I sometimes call my dog a bitch because it won't "move bitch get out of the way." -quotes a song

Damn fool.

I Love Ludacris

[edit] disambiguation?

Should this be a disambiguation page instead of a redirect? Bitch is used probably more often in its many slang forms than to mean a female dog. --Dante Alighieri 10:37 23 May 2003 (UTC)

yeah, I agree with that -Damien Vryce 16:31, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] profanity?

Anome, I reverted your edit because the word "bitch" can be regarded as profanity. Dictionary.com defines profanity as "abusive, vulgar, or irreverent language." I think that there are many who would regard the word "bitch" as profanity. --Lowellian 00:59, Apr 6, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] reclaiming the word bitch

Is there any particular evidence of women "reclaiming" the word bitch in the 90s? Can anyone point to articles on this, etc.? The song is definitely interesting and belongs here, but doesn't actually reclaim the word "bitch" any more than it reclaims the word "sinner."

Also, I don't really understand the last paragraph -- I was going to try and clear it up, but I realized I don't know what it means. Can someone point to a source that lays out the argument about bitches, fertility and patriarchy more clearly?

Thomas Mills Hinkle 22:47, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)

We don't need articles at all as I there are definitely enough examples (even outside of the 90s). Missy Elliot cleary and repeatedly reclaims the word, for instance, "She's a Bitch". Hyacinth 03:12, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)

References are fine -- just the name "Missy Elliot" got me to find a quote of a rolling stone review that mentioned "reclaiming" the word. In fact, if some one knows more about her, it might be interesting to add a section on her work and on how it relates to women/slurs more generally within hip-hop. Thomas Mills Hinkle 11:35, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)

How relevant is this reclamation? It seems to me poison for a woman to use an epithet which still strongly connotes despised traits. I don't see how using a word connoting "querolous", "spiteful", and "malicious" can be empowering. But I don't know; life's a bitch. Rintrah 19:02, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

It stems from a reaction to the prevalence of tagging any woman who doesn't adhere to a certain standard of femininity as a bitch. To use a literary example, in the novel The Handmaid's Tale the narrator related the feeling that, whenever she outsmarted a man, she could almost hear him calling her a bitch in his mind, even her own husband. - LeaHazel 21:19, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

That literary reaction you recited is jealousy; men have names for other men who outsmart them too, but, not having a word like "bitch" for them, they have to resort to a greater variety of pejoritive epithets. Though you haven't been specific, I think that standard of femininity you referred to is a pretext for subordination, which both sexes often strive to impose on the other, but men have traditionally had more power. Because it is such a popular epithet in slang, the connotations of "bitch" are diffuse, though still commonly pernicious. I think bitch, in itself, is not chiefly a denunciation to punish women who do not conform to that standard, but rather a contemptuous word often used for it.

However, I still don't see the point of reclamation, for if "bitch" were purged of contempt, another word would rise to its place. As an ironic device, it might be useful, but I doubt it can be "reclaimed". Rintrah 16:00, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

This is not a debate about whether or not it's possible to "reclaim" a pejorative in the traditional sense, of rendering it benign and even positive. Some might argue that the efforts of certain subcultures in the African American community to reclaim the word "nigger" are equally futile. The question is, whether an attempt to reclaim the word "bitch" exists, and if so, what the cultural connotations of it are.

The word "bitch" certainly has diffuse interpretations, which might be crudely divided into two groups, their meanings roughly inverse. One, "bitch" as an epithet for a dominant, aggressive woman, especially if that aggression is carried out against men; this is the meaning that the excerpt in The Handmaid's Tale refers to, and the meaning usually associated with the verse from the song by Meredith Brooks. Two, "bitch" as a descriptor of weakness, as "my bitch" or "prison bitch" etc. and an epithet applied commonly to both men and women (possibly more commonly to men, where it might be argued the subtext is that even a strong, "bitchy" woman is a standard of weakness for men; but I digress).

I don't know which meaning surfaced earlier, or whether one of them is a reaction/adaptation of the other. However, the reclamation of the word "bitch" by feminists is usually attributed to the first meaning. It is an aspect of a greater argument about working women, women in positions of power and the general power dynamic of gender hierarchy. - LeaHazel 11:06, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, your apprehension of "bitch" is more exhaustive than mine; but, as to these two groups, they do not appear to be inverse, but contradictory. The import of bitch is weaker than values instilled in schools, and business policy as to rectruitment of women. Judgements upon the 'weakness' or 'usurpation' of women are usually based on reflection on women's position in society, i.e., how people regard women in their alloted roles; I believe people are less influenced by words in our language than this reflection. 'Bitch', in this context, is a symptom of the traditional stigma against women, but it has also become trivial due to its comically nebulous connotations. However, your comments on the meaning and importance of bitch are interesting — I am pleased I unwittingly started this "debate".

"General power dynamic of gender hierarchy" — no offence, but this sounds like a popular phrase of academic articles; I would interpret the concept as "the changing power relations between the sexes". I digress because I like to make fine points on language. I generally eschew Social Science and Applied Philosophy jargon.

"Nigger", in my opinion, has been "reclaimed' within many black communities. Its inflammatory connotations stemmed from slave-traders' contempt; the word initially being a neutral designation. Ironically, it has now assumed the thuggish connotations proudly brandished by 'gangsta' rap. But I will refrain from more argument because I desperately need sleep. Rintrah 12:09, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't know much about Social Science; the vocabulary I use is mostly derived from casual, non-academic feminist discourse.

The word "bitch" means different things to men and women, and that's probably the root of the misunderstanding. The subservience implied in calling a man a bitch has never been matched by a complementary merit, whereas for a woman, being a bitch implies an uncompromising strength that is increasingly understood as being a double-edged sword. Call it fourth-wave feminism, if you will. - LeaHazel 15:45, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

I am unfamiliar with non-academic feminist discourse, so I will take your word on vocabulary.

Your propositions on "bitch" make sense; I see no reason to dispute them. As to fourth-wave feminism, I am unfamiliar with that too. Your comments above are probably all I have learnt about it. :) Rintrah 00:07, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, the fourth-wave feminism was a backwards joke. Feminism is generally divided into three waves, so fourth-wave would be post-90s, post-Girl Power feminism. It doesn't officially exist, as it was never defined by gender studies scholars or journalists. - LeaHazel : talk : contribs 16:07, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Ok. I don't think I could convince any feminist to embrace the Spice girls ethos, so I can see why the fourth movement would necessarily be post-Girl Power. And I think by journalists, you mean serious journalists, as there are journalists that write all kinds of refuse but without any effect on serious discourse. Rintrah 08:20, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

You're right about the journalists, but Girl Power has been defined as a sub-movement in third-wave feminism. The Spice Girls are just one example of the usage. The articles in question should provide you with more details on the subject, if you're interested. LeaHazel : talk : contribs 17:10, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

I have learnt the subject to wikipedia level. I have a degree in wikipedia Arts now. Rintrah 16:15, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Revive Reclaim & Reinvent / pre-Christianity usage

It's not only about reclaiming the word. It's also about reviving the usage of the word "bitch" before Christianity took over Europe and reinventing the word "bitch" for modernity. "Bitch" gained a negative connotation as part of the Christian campaign to to marginalize those who hung on to goddess worship in the same way how words like "pagan", "witch", etc. gain a negative connotation. The reinvention is about non-conforming to historic stereotype of women and to promote individualism while protesting cultural norms. It's possible that the "sinner" reference is a word play on religious reference given how author consider the Christian concept of women as limiting. The way that how information is edited on this page constantly reminds people of Orwellian society. 3Laws 03:50, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] strong word

I still haven't seen any clarification on the following:

Some second wave feminists hold that bitch is a strong word because, in a patriarchy, women are supposed to be available for men's constant use. Becoming pregnant against a man's will would be an offense against this order.

I find this incomprehensible. Is the idea that bitches(namespace=dogs) are always sexually available? (this of course is untrue -- see estrus). It seems more likely to me that "bitch" is a strong word because it treats women as animals.

That said, perhaps there there are two lines of usage in bitch:

A demeaning way to label a strident/complaining/upset woman that suggests her concerns are not worthwhile/serious
A way to label someone as sexually available/subservient (here I can only think of phrases like "be my bitch" or "prison bitch"

Does this make sense? In that case, I could remove the confusing line about second wave feminists and add another section about usage of bitch to connote sexual availability/subservience (which combines with the "prison bitch" meaning). Tom 15:25, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I'm removing the lines above as no one has explained their meaning/importance to me.

[edit] proud?

Now, perhaps I'm a complete idiot, but I tend to think that people who're mean, insensitive, hard to get along with, or otherwise ill-behaved should not be feeling partiularly good about themselves, much less should they actually be proud of their glaring personality faults. Yes, I'm even talking about women here. I would think that if you're smart enough to recognize your own social ineptitudes the next logical thing would be to rectify them, not embrace them.

I don't understand what you're referring to Could you give some context and/or explain how your thought relate to the page? Tom 14:57, 29 Aug 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Biatch?

"Bizzotch" gets mention, but what about "biatch" (or "biotch")? I'm not sure exactly who/when/where that was popularized, but it's very common now and should be mentioned.

On a different note, would it be appropriate to point out the irony in derisively comparing a woman to a dog when a dog is supposed to be man's best friend? -- Funnyhat 08:18, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Answer: no, becuase this would enter into a moral discussion of the word, which is unnaturally digressive for an encyclopedia. It is not ironic: a bitch, even by its denotation, is a pet to man, so comparing a woman to a female pet is not ironic, it is offensive. Rintrah 11:18, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Shouldn't biatch get it's own entry, for the cultural impact? 65.34.171.108

Not really. "Biatch" is indistinct from "bitch" except for its pronunciation. As for "cultural impact", there is none, other than white teenagers and rappers using it as "cool" vernacular, which is a hardly a notable encyclopedic topic. Rintrah 11:18, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Shotgun

How about a reference to one of its other meanings; bitch is another name for a shotgun, as portrayed in the movie "Training Day." Denzel's character says, "Hand me the bitch."

If we go through all uses of the word bitch and simply replace it with the phrase "angry woman," all it's meanings will be obvious. (for when it doesn't make sense just shorten it to woman, this would use it as a subtitute for a substitute.) When Denzel's character says "Hand me the bitch" he's saying this for two reasons. 1. An angry woman will do more damage (than a not so angry woman) 2. Anyone who has ever shot a shotgun knows that it kicks like a bitch. 71.37.187.64 17:16, 24 September 2006 (UTC)Sheba

[edit] Wiktionary ?

Why isn't this article in the Wiktionary ? It is about an English word, a very good subject for an English dictionnary, but for a multilingual encyclopedia ??? 212.152.18.216 00:07, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Because it deals with cultural uses, not just pronunciations and meanings? --KJ 07:39, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removed from article:

[ this is not true at all! "to bitch" comes from an old french world, "beech" or somethign of the sort.. no, i have no sources and don't care to find them, but I'm sure if you cared enough to write this entry, you'll care enough to find and post the truth yourself ]

What is not true? What did you remove from the article? What is this?

[edit] From Trivia

In the section Trivia, the following appeared:

Bitch is also the name of a Roald Dahl short story, featured in Switch Bitch. this is mostly refered to woman even though it is not defined as the human species.

I have removed the bolded section and moved it all here. I assume this line means something like "Dahl used this term literally only in reference to animals, but some critics believe he was making a statement about women." I have, however, not read the story, and don't know if this is true or not. But even if it is true, is this even needed in the article? I don't think that it is.

richdiesal 4 July 2005 06:11 (UTC)

[edit] Valley Girl

The use of "bitchin'" as "cool" surely pre-dates the 1980's. I added the jazz meaning ("you were bitchin' in that trumpet solo"), and I think this has a similar connotation to "cool" (but in use much longer). If anyone has an earlier use of the term meaning "cool," please change the Valley Girl reference.24.64.223.203 05:39, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] you're my bitch

This usage has become almost mainsteam in UK, including TV (eg Have I Got News For You), yet (as I write) there is no explanation in the article. I'll make a start, to get the input flowing. I suspect the origins are US rapper culture, but I have no expertise on that. Richard Allen 10:18, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] male usage

This article formerly suggested that the term "bitch" was used as an insult for effeminate gay males. I have changed this simply to effeminate males, as the term is often used as an insult regardless of sexual orientation. Toucan6 2:33, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Riding Bitch

The description for this is incorrect. "Riding bitch" occurs when one person is sandwiched in between two others in the rear passenger section of a sedan. Lumbergh 19:06, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Also, "Riding bitch" is when two persons are riding on a 'motorcycle' the person in the back (that usually uses the removable seat back) is riding bitch. I think this derives from couples that ride together it is most common for the male to drive, and the female to ride behind him. Hence the name "bitch". -Damien Vryce 18:50, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Yoselebitch

I added the term Yoselebitch to the variants section. It's usage seems to be increasing across East Coast schools (secondary and undergraduate levels, at least) based on blog data and converstation. Tough to get what are considered "reliable sources" online. Can anyone help me with this?

--22:47, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I have removed the paragraph about "Yoselebitch" for the time being. I find it hard to believe, and it does need some sources before it goes back into the article. If you can't find sources then it doesn't belong in an encyclopedia.

The term Yoselebitch has become familar recently in the East Coast of the United States, referring to teachers or others in the education profession that demonstrate either incompetence or a degree of arbitrariness in teaching, grading, or decision making. The term is believed to be a reference to Theresa Yoselevich, though exact etymological origins are uncertain.

--Commander Keane 02:48, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] To Complain

The usage of "to bitch" as "to complain" needs to be spelled out- preferably in the first paragraph along with the (in my opinion, far less common) usage of the term as to subjugate or humiliate. It is referenced later in the article as though it has already been explained. I don't know how best to include this or I'd do it myself.128.227.95.149 20:53, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed merge of Son of a bitch into Bitch

Since it's clear that this pathetic excuse for a dictionary definition is going to be kept since nobody can stand to delete such a great little entry I propose that this be merged into Bitch as a subsection since the article already has mention of the word as a derogatory term. Pegasus1138^{Talk | Contribs | Email} ---- 05:56, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Comment. I believe that Son of a bitch holds enough notability to remain its seperate article. The article, however, needs to be cleaned-up no doubt; a clean-up tag will probably work better than the AfD tag that you decided to use on the article. To resolve this issue, we can get a consensus on the issue of merging as we did with the AfD. — Я не имею никакой жизни 06:18, 06:25, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Merge. —

Я не имею

никакой жизни

16:59, 06:25, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Merge -per nom PrometheusX303 16:21, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Merge Foday 11:27, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Done Ifnord 02:22, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Biatch & AAVE

I removed the reference to biatch being an example of African American Vernacular English as its link to rap music and black comedians suffice. AAVE is often mistakenly used as a blanket term to describe new words and phrases that are more correctly attributed to youth-oriented hip-hop culture. The fact that the overwhelming majority of the individuals who coin and popularize these new terms speak AAVE is incidental--if the word does not gain any traction amongst AAVE speakers who are not involved with the youth-oriented culture related to AAVE, it isn't descendent from it.

One could make a much better case for 'ho' being an AAVE word than for 'biatch', but I removed that reference as well as the comparison is fairly shallow. While ho is the (probable) AAVE equivalent of whore in SAE (Standard American English), biatch is simply a variation of bitch. In my experience people who use the word 'ho' often completely omit 'whore' from their vernacular while people who use the term 'biatch' often use the term 'bitch' to varying degree, sometimes even more frequently than 'biatch'. Also, biatch is never are very rarely used as anything other than a noun, while ho mirrors whore in its application.

Unless the points above are made I think the statement is misleading.

-- I believe that the word Son-of-a-bitch has a totally different meaning than just the word "bitch" and shouldn't be merged since the two aren't related

What the hell is AAVE? Most of this entire entry is a joke.

AAVE is African-American Vernacular English, one of the main and most distinctive American dialects. What is a joke? Taragüí @ 17:36, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

LOL.

[edit] Vandalism reverted.

Someone had added "Cynthia Robertson", along with the text "Considered to be the biggest one in the world" to the page. I've removed it.

[edit] Germaine Greer

She deserves her own section on this page.

I agree. - MaxW

[edit] Flip a Bitch

On Oct. 24, 2006, 74.0.204.194 (San Jose, CA) changed

In California, especially the Greater San Francisco Bay Area, the Greater Los Angeles Area, and the Greater San Diego Area, the term Flip a bitch is used, as a common term for U-turn, a term that has gone out of use.^{[citation needed]}

In California, especially the Greater San Francisco Bay Area, the Greater Los Angeles Area, and the Greater San Diego Area, the term Flip a bitch is used.^{[citation needed]}

Since this removes the definition of "Flip a bitch," I have changed it back to:

Since 74.0.204.194 did not leave an edit summary or anything on the talk page, I would be forced to guess what intention they had. Obviously they did not intend to remove the definition, maybe they meant to say:

If this was the intention, then feel free to make the change, but I think the current version is more descriptive.

Also, maybe it would be better to say "In California, expecially in metropolitan areas" instead of what we have, since we list all the metropolitan areas in California anyway. If anyone can confirm that this phrase is used elsewhere (which I imagine it is) please state that on this talk page or in the article. This is probably used in places other than California.

--VegKilla 18:20, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

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