Talk:Bionicle

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Contents 1 Maori vs Lego 2 Toa Hagah 3 Order of External Links 4 Jeez 5 Secondary Colors 6 MaskofLife.co.nr 7 Advertising on the page 8 What links should be listed? 9 Let's try something new 10 This has gone to far! 11 Is it over? 12 Page move 13 Lots of link cleanup needed 14 Back to it 15 Images needed 16 Merge Requests - 17/18 July 2006 17 Merged discussion 18 Help 19 Lost images 20 Three virtues 21 Barraki 22 Proposed Bionicle WikiProject 23 Bionicle: Quest of the Toa 24 BZPower Link 25 I Would love to translate the Bionicle Wiki page into German! 26 New Articles?

[edit] Maori vs Lego

Some mention needs to be made of the Maori vs Lego issues that these toys caused, see:

• http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,56451,00.html
• http://archives.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/auspac/06/01/newzealand.maori/
• http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/1619406.stm
• http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0211/S00055.htm

[edit] Toa Hagah

I keep seeing info about the Toa Hagah (meaning Pouks, Bomonga, Gaaki, and Kualus; we already know about Norik and Iruini) being added to a number of pages, particularly their mask and spinner powers. Now, I've never seen this info in any official source, but then again I haven't gotten the Bionicle Encyclopedia yet. I think this stuff is made up, but can anyone confirm whether it is or not?

• Yes, it is. The masks, armor, spinners, and tools of the other Toa Hagah have not been revealed. AaronCrane 20:32, January 7 2006 (UTC)

Where?

[edit] Order of External Links

To me it seems as if the BS01 links "sticks out" in the middle of the forums. Shouldn't it be BS01 and the the 3 forum links? --torritorri 19:23, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Where are the Bionicle Tohunga?

[edit] Jeez

Some pictures woiuld be nice.

Because nobody would have any clue what you're talking about otherwise.

Flameviper12 14:16, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Well Jeez your self. Go to some of these websites: www.bzpower.com ; www.bionicle.com ; www.biosector01.com OR if you wanted to use common sense, then you'd go to etither Yahoo or Google and search Bionicle in images. See how easy that was

[edit] Secondary Colors

Doe this seem really nessessary? The sets are easily identifiable as they are. There really is no use to list secondary colors. If someone can explain solidly why these should stay in a week, I wont remove them. Unknown Toa 19:04 February 20 2006

[edit] MaskofLife.co.nr

OK, this has gone on long enough. There needs to be some sort of agreement over whether to include www.maskoflife.co.nr in the external links list or not. Personally, I don't think it hurts anything to include it, especially if keeping it up there will shut up whoever keeps posting it. What are your thoughts? Drakhan 03:12, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Mask of Life, in my opinion, is just another fansite that's using this article for advertising. Call me opinionated, but I say remove it. BoMEpsilon 21:10, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

I looked at the MaskofLife site again and you're right, there's too little there to make it worth being listed in an encyclopedia. I'll look into what can be done to keep it from being put up there again, as the repeated edits (and occasional flaming) seem to be crossing the line into vandalism. Drakhan 20:38, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

I know the sites just small, but it's just a baby that needs to grow, leave it there, it doesnt hurt, signed, The Creator(s) of Mask of Life

OK, just leave it!BoMEpsilon

Leave Mask of Life there! Please! I think its kewl. I joined

Leave it on! It's no different then other Fan Sites!!

Hey Epsilon, You have a fan site, Brotherhood of Makuta. I know more about you than you think, your conversation with FalconDwn come to mind? Don't threaten him or Mask of Life!! He's my friend!

We won't shut up...BlaBLaBLa!Hooheehooo!Hohehooh! Can you tell I'm having fun posting on our sites disscusion?

First of all, please sign your posts. You do it by typing four ~ symbols in a row. And I'll allow that Mask of Life needs time to grow - but please don't add it to an encyclopedia listing until it's grown; that's what search engines like Yahoo and Google are for. Drakhan 19:08, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

I removed it. I'm sick and tired of them readding it.

All they do is take the news away from BZP and MoD. It should be removed. -Swert of BS01

BlahBlahBlah!! It won't hurt to leave the link their. Not signed. but guess,

Warning to the Mask of Life admin:

Please stop adding commercial links to Wikipedia. It is considered spamming, and Wikipedia is not a vehicle for advertising. Thanks.

Warning to all involved:

It is important to keep a cool head, especially when responding to comments against you or your edits. Personal attacks and disruptive comments only escalate a situation; please keep calm and remember that action can be taken against other parties if necessary. Attacking another user back can only satisfy trolls or anger contributors and leads to general bad feeling. Please try to remain civil with your comments. Thanks!

Drakhan 00:29, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree with the keep a cool head part. not gonna stop. No different than other sites

The BoM sucks thing wasn't me...The "admin"24.229.156.62 02:45, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

I am having WAAAAAAY too much fun on here! 24.229.156.66 18:18, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Signing post does nothing for me cause i don't have a screen name, I did, though.

Dark Jedi, please do NOT make fake posts with other people's signatures. You're not fooling anyone - even if you pretend to be someone else, the History page records the post as coming from you. So stop. This is the sort of thing that can get you blocked. Drakhan 02:34, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

I think that mask of life's link should be kept on...I mean whats the big deal if you think it is just stealing news dont go on mask of life first! If it makes some people happy then whats the major (or minor for that matter!) problem? The site wont hurt anyone and the staff certainly wont! so just leave it alone...No one is gonna care...Keep it on. (i think its cool and enjoy the site personnally.)205.238.237.114 02:55, 10 March 2006 (UTC)signed (not the staff.) a fan of the site who will be devastated if it comes off!...please keep it on.

That website rocks! Definetly keep it on...Its not even fair if they take it off! Even if you think the site is not so great...Wouldnt it be good to give some practice to ameture website developers! It's always good to have a start!Why does anyone give a care if its on there? just keep it!205.238.237.212 03:10, 10 March 2006 (UTC) signed someone mad at people who crush website develepors hopes of a good website.

Um, i enjoy the site, and even though it is still small... just leave it alone!

What does it matter in the scope of etternity if the site link is just used for ad! So are all the other sites links!

Got a better idea that leaving it on! it is to much work!

This thing needs to stay off unless it gets bigger. It has 3 members and steals news of BZP and MoD. The admin has been SPAMing up this talk page so I say keep it off. I have been deleting it every time I see it. -Lihyahm

Look, I have been there many times, and the site is still small, but, look, what will it hurt if u just leave it alone!

OKAY!!! This HAS gone on long enough! I'M SICK OF IT!!! For Mata-Nui's sake just leave the link there! IT DOESN'T HURT!!! I haven't been spaming up the talk! THAt was someone else, HONEST.

the last thing I wanted was conflicts beetween our sites. I am extremely sorry for any derogatory comments made on this page by members of Mask of Life, - The Mask of Life Admin

24.115.72.134, stop adding Mask of Life to the links section. It still, after so many attempts to put it in before, is considered advertising. 64.9.15.158 15:32, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

And other sites arn't considered advertising?

This is the largest disscussion on the Bionicle page, sweeeeet

LEAVE IT!!!!......geez-um....whats all this fuss about! Its a new site and no one cares if it is small! If you leave it their, this will all be over! Please just leave it!205.238.237.117 21:59, 10 March 2006 (UTC)signed a really ticked-off fan!

KEEP it216.169.186.9 23:53, 10 March 2006 (UTC)a fan

I love that site......DO NOT REMOVE!!216.169.186.9 23:54, 10 March 2006 (UTC)a fan

• I do not believe that there should be a link to that site, as there is nothing worth linking to there. However, I have also removed two other links that I believe to be innapropriate, as per Wikipedia's external linking policy. --InShaneee 00:24, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

The majority in this discussion is to keep the link on the page, so, I suggest to keep all the fans of Mask of Life happy, JUST LET THE LINK ALONE! Dark Jedi 07:09, 10 March 2006 (UTC) AND JUST LEAVE IT IT WON"T HURT ANYONE! GEEZ!

As i said, the majority has won, we will keep the lind on the page! End of Descusion! As i said, the majority has won, we will keep the lind on the page! End of Descusion! As i said, the majority has won, we will keep the lind on the page! End of Descusion!

One, the discussion is NOT over just because someone says so. Two, even if it was, the discussion posts should be left where they are and not deleted. And on top of that, if you're going to add a post, could you PLEASE do it at the bottom of the page where we can all find it easily?

Please, could everyone just take a breather so we could have a calm discussion? Read that external linking policy that InShaneee linked to and let's see if we can't come to some sort of agreement over this. Drakhan 03:41, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

There is nothing on there that says the link shouldn't be kept, besides, what will it hurt, ANSWER ME, WHAT WILL IT HURT,-Mask of Life admin

Why do you not want the link there?

Why do you not just leave it and let this be over?

Because it's consdered shameless advertising. We've explained it before. And that "OK, just leave it!" comment was faked. BoMEpsilon 14:40, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

I think the reason they put a fake one is cause they worked hard on their site and some shamless people on the net try to take it off...Not that i dont think putting a fake was stupid....but come on everyone makes mistakes! And I agree with the MAJORITY WON deal...it did...almost everyine wants it on! r:205.238.237.192|205.238.237.192]] 14:48, 11 March 2006 (UTC)a MAJOR fan of the site, bigger than the rest

Majority? The website only has two message board topics on it, and since most of these comments from the "majority" are unsigned, how can we even be sure "almost everyone" wants it? And faking a comment because you worked so hard on it doesn't make it right. BoMEpsilon 17:17, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Actualy epsilon, we have new message boards, they arn't very big but, give the site time to grow, i have an idea how we can clear this all up... : Say, once our site has, oh, 25 members, we will be able to put it on the page! Again, to contact me my AOL screen name is Magnetic Orb, and we can sort ths out. We apreciate your time, and we just wish to provide people with bionicle news. The Mask of Life staff.

Most websites put on the external linking section were removed from there for having only 100 members. And the fact your personal attacks against me (off of this website) aren't really giving me the urge to negotiate with you on a personal basis. BoMEpsilon 18:03, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

You know, the external links are not for advertising or for getting members, they are for providing information in bionicle. Your site does not do so. BZP does. tBoM does. If it was simply because of a "nice site", mine would be up there. And mine has over 150 members. But you see, my site doesn't really provide much that would be useful to Wikipedia readers, so it is not listed. Yours, even though it may be a lovely website, doesn't either. - Cee-estee (no account)

Our site is small 'cause no one bothers to sign up, but they do for other sites, fate is cruel

Maybe cause other sites are several of the following: 1: better 2: bigger 3: have better communities 4: older (this is a big one) 5: don't have people who go advertising everywhere 6: have useful information that is not listed on BZP and other sites already Need I go on? - Cee-estee

What do other saites don't have that we can put on, think about. and here. 2.it would be bigger if people signed up. 3.same as 2. 4.can't help that one. 5. We don't, at least I don't. and 6. what is there that other sites don't have, what am I Greg F. to you people!!! this is getting off subject;leave the link there, please-Mask of Life admin

It's a NEWS site, not an info site...so you can't blame us for being weak on the info,

Doesn't it strike you as odd that just after we put the first bionicle comic for download on our site, Bzpowers newest thing was refrence to comics? (Just a thought, I'm not accusing anyone of anything)

As for number 4, yes you can help that. You can wait. You have plenty of time, no? And number 5, yes you are. You're posting your site on wiki. That's what I'm talking about. - Cee

You're right, we can wait, but the wait will be half as long if we get people to our site and, I think you would still take off the link if our site was like BoM, or MoD, seriously-Admin of the MoLi

If your site was like them, then you would have more members. And you still haven't ackloleged the fact that my site, with 150 members and over 10,000 posts, isn't even listed here. - Cee

MoLi Admin, If your site is up there, then so should every Bionicle forum with 4 or more members. You don't have any exclusive news or any worthwhile things on your forums. This needs to stay off Wikipedia. -Lihyahm

Your site has 150 members? What is it? maybe I'll join

Look, we have already decided that once we have 100 members we can keep the link on the page! I think now everyone should just surrender! I mean, me and Cee Estee, BoMEpsilon and a few others have talked it over, and once we reach 100, we can just forget about the whole thing! Also. i think that once we put a downloadable comicspage on our site, BZPower did the same! Take a lession from that! BZPower looks to us for news! Just leave the site alone once it gets 100 active members!

Not necessarily. It could be just coincidence. BoMEpsilon 19:20, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

My answer to Lihyahm's comment! Listen here, who are u to keep us off wikipedia, u are a nobody! U have no athority to keep us off! Huh, where do u command who puts up links or not! YOU HAVE NO POWER OVER US! --Dark Jedi 18:03, 12 March 2006 (UTC) AGAIN, U HAVE NO POWER OVER US!

Who r u to command us not to put links on wikipedia, it is a free encyclopedia and should remain that way! Unless u can prove u have any athority, i will ignor u! --Dark Jedi 18:05, 12 March 2006 (UTC) by the way http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us/Article_problem/Vandalism it says i can put the link on if i want!

Listen Drakhan, comunity justice has no official tie in to wikipedia, it says so on the Comunity Justice page! So back off, u have no power over us or our site! So knock it off! --Dark Jedi 18:09, 12 March 2006 (UTC) Friend of the MoL admin! Stop peging them, all the other sites on wiki are used for advertising also! The MoL link breaks no rules on the external links page, so forget it!--Dark Jedi 18:09, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Go ahead try and block me! Just try it Drakhan!

Fine. I may not have the power to block you, Dark Jedi, but I can alert the admins to the fact that you're throwing a temper tantrum, and THEY can block you.

Please do not make personal attacks on other people. Wikipedia has a policy against personal attacks. In some cases, users who engage in personal attacks may be blocked from editing by admins or banned by the arbitration committee. Comment on content, not on other contributors or people. Please resolve disputes appropriately. Thank you.

For the rest of us, should I ask someone to come in and mediate? The Wikipedia policies on this are outlined here. Drakhan 22:11, 12 March 2006

(UTC)

I am REALLY confused. This disscussion has gottan REALLY hard to read, P.S., I have made NO personal attacks.

I personally would love for the site to stay on,but everyone is taking this way too far! Having 100 members before being able too post is completely reasonable! I mean come on! just do that and stop throwing tantrums on the message board!...Do you wanna know how many points you just lost for doing that?!?205.238.237.80 04:55, 13 March 2006 (UTC)get more members

I said the SITE should stay of Wikipedia, not you, or your supporters. On the subject of deleting sites, who keeps taking off MNOnline? -Lihyahm

OK.Quite a few of us have decided that once Mask of Life has 100 members it can stay on wikipedia. Once we have 100 members, the link will go back up, and there will be no further arguement. Now, I hope I can safely say, Disscussion Over.-Admin of the MoLi

Block me, go ahead, but we do what we want, u do what u want, so we keep link once we reach 100! U CAN'T BLOCK ME, I AM TO POWERFUL, JUST TRY IT! Dark Jedi

I agree, Dark Jedi is being a little abusave, but mask of life is a news site, i am one of the staff, there main subject is news, not message boards --Toa of Sound 16:53, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

"Just try it", Dark Jedi? Done. I've reported you at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents.

Back on topic - the 100-member thing sounds fair; once the site has grown we can re-evaluate it to see if it's worth linking to. Drakhan 17:43, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Dark jedi...omg...why do you keep throwing tantrums! Stop i thought you were good with that 100 member deal! your gonna get blocked if you continue! geez-um! stop!205.238.237.215 20:10, 13 March 2006 (UTC)anonymus

Thank u sooo much for blocking dark jedi! Now, i agree, once we have 100 members, we can put the link on the page. sound fair, alright, i hope we have this sorted out! --Toa of Sound 20:16, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

HA HA HA! No one took you seriously Drakhan! I am not blocked, and continue to fight for my friends website! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! You havn't seen the last of me yet! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!--Dark Jedi 20:24, 13 March 2006 (UTC):Please do not make personal attacks on other people. Wikipedia has a policy against personal attacks. In some cases, users who engage in personal attacks may be blocked from editing by admins or banned by the arbitration committee. Comment on content, not on other contributors or people. Please resolve disputes appropriately. Thank you. by the way, i forgot to tell you, i work for wikipedia! HA HA HA! I can't be blocked, but i can block u!

Just shu up dark jedi! U are taking up room in the descussion with noscience! --Toa of Sound 20:31, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

OK, Good News/Bad News time. The good news is, one of the admins looked at my report and blocked Dark Jedi. The bad news is, he's only been blocked for a day. He'll probably be back tomorrow and I'm guessing he'll be upset; so I figured I'd give everyone a heads-up.

Now, it looks like we've just about reached an agreement, so if we can wrap up this discussion before he comes back it'll be loads easier on everyone. Are we all agreed on the plan that Mask of Life stays off the External Link list until it has at least 100 forum members? Drakhan 23:07, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, all of the MoLi members have agreed! And Dark Jedi isn't blocked, he told me, so he will probably be on, heads up!--Toa of Sound 23:59, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

...amazing what happens when you don't look at a page for some time. :P And agreed. BoMEpsilon 00:04, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

As I said before, we've agreed, Disscussion Over... Finally!

Finally, we are all agreed! Dark Jedi is blocked, so when he comes back, he will probably be mad that the descussion ended without him! PS i know this guy, and sometimes he cools down very quickly!--Toa of Sound 17:05, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Discussion hearby closed by all members that have posted.

[edit] Advertising on the page

I think it does need descussion, not to make anyone mad, and mabye I shouldn't even bring this up, but what are all of the other links doing on the external links page, besides derecting people to their sites to obtain more members... just something to think about...--Toa of Sound 17:11, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

I wouldn't think it's so much about that, more to provide content or specifics not actually written on the page. BoMEpsilon 01:04, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

If it's not on the page, why doesn't someone just put it there? This article needs a heavy rewrite, anyway. --InShaneee 06:04, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, just put the info in the actual article! Why rederect to sites when you could justput it there! --Toa of Sound 15:56, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, this is for people new to Bionicle. Beginners don't need to know, say, what job a minor Matoran had on Mata Nui; and such details would probably overwhelm them. If they wanted to know more, then they could go to BS01 or its wiki and begin looking in-depth. BZPower and Mask of Destiny provide communities where fans can talk with each other; the closest Wikipedia has to that is the talk pages. Drakhan 17:16, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

This argument could not possibly be more wrong, and, as much as I hate to say it, I have to agree with Toa of Sound, this is an argument for linkspam. Wikipedia is meant to be comprehensive, NOT a 'beginner's guide', and I really don't know where you got that idea from. No, wikipedia does not offer a community for specific subjects, nor does it need to, intrinsicly or through links. As a matter of fact, linking to a site for the sole purpose of providing access to a message board is strongly discouraged, and often disallowed outright. --InShaneee 05:14, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Who, when they are new to bionicle are going to come to wikipedia and look it up! It is just a bunch of exuses to cover up advertising! No one get mad, but, that is what it is!--Toa of Sound 18:32, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

What's wrong with MNOnline? It has many members, a good community, is the thrird largest Bionicle forum, and Greg F is a member there. What is wrong with the site? -Lihyahm

The problem is that none of those are criteria for including an external link on a page. --InShaneee 21:54, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

That's not the point, the point is, the links are just rederects to obtain members! Even though greg is a member there dosn't mean anything! It is link spam, and I don't get why you guys think you can put your links on the page and no one else can! Putting your links on the page when we don't.--68.238.37.141 15:01, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

i've just joind in and i agree that link's are used for advertizement. i am part of the MoL staff ( the one that you have never heard on this discussion or any others, i've been keeping my moth shut and observeing the setuation, and i don't want to get abuseve like the others.--Sonic blur 20:57, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree, it is all link SPAM! No external links should rederect to message boards!--Dark Jedi 15:28, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Once I started this discussion, all of the site owners jumped to defend their sites! They knew they were just adversiting, and now they are exposed!--Toa of Sound 22:25, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What links should be listed?

This site is nowhere near large enough or pertinent enough to be listed. Its only difference from the plethora of petty IF sites is the fact that the admin was able to afford actual IPB software. The only forums that should be listed are BZPower and Mask of Destiny (MNOnline is concievable, if only for the fact that Greg Farshety, author of the Bionicle comics, is now a member). I am removing tbomonline from the external links section, and I encourage anyone who spies it shamelessly advertised here again to follow my lead. --A rational thinker

Only difference? The website does have a wiki, which is fairly comprehensive, and what it doesn't have in size is made up for in functionality. And as for your Greg comment, the website has, before its merge, had a live chat with Greg Farshtey, which not many boards have had the chance to do. In fact, it plans to get a chat with Stuart Sayger too. [1] Also, in case you've forgotten, you may want to sign your posts next time. –BoMEpsilon^talk 00:07, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Is the ability to accept "a rational thinker" as an appropriate title alien? At any rate, I still see no justification for tbomonline being advertised on wikipedia, paticuarly with the abscence of matanuionlinev3, which is certaintly more pertinent than tbomonline. It's entirely concievable that in the future, tbomonline could rise in status to be included in the group of relevant Bionicle fan-sites, but it's certaintly not there yet. As it stands, the only truly pertinent Bionicle fan sites are BZPower, Mask of Destiny (both officially recognized by TLG and have been linked to on bionicle.com), and BS01, which is the de facto center for Bionicle information and has a truly comphrehensive wiki. If you want my frank advice, cease with the ego trip and start thinking clearly. You may have a great little forum, but it's not on par with the "big two" yet. --A rational thinker

To be frank to you, I think you need to stop making attacks and instead try to help solve the dispute we're having now. Mata Nui Online v3 should be kept in, I agree with you there, however, I may want to remind you that the external links section is not for advertising in the first place- if you truly think that's my intentions to keep tBoM in the external links section, then you have the entire idea for the external links section wrong. If you want my even more frank advice, you really should read or maybe even reread Wikipedia's external linking policy. –BoMEpsilon^talk 16:04, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

The nature of my capmpaign against having tbomonine in the external links section currently is because I don't want Wikipedia to be used for advertising--I don't know how on earth you could glean some sort of condoning of advertising on Wikipedia from my comments here, but I digress from that issue. Only pertinent, relevant web sites should be linked to in the external links section, and the only fan sites that fit that category currently are BZpower, Mask of Destiny, Bionicle Sector 01, and concievably MataNuiOnline (though the latter is questionable). If your intentions for adding tbomonline to this page's external links section aren't for shameless advertising, then what are they for? If you think tbomonline provides relevant content, please explain what it is, because I do not see it. --A rational thinker

Yes, I delete it whenever i see it, especially sense it breaks many rules in Wikipedias policys. More link SPAM!--Dark Jedi 18:02, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Dark Jedi, you were banned for 24 hours because of link spam. And "rational" thinker, I think you misunderstood why I suggested you read the external linking policy- it was the fact you keep removing something that is relevant. Of course, this was unclear, so I see why you would misunderstand my point. So far, though, you have provided subjective criticisms on why tBoM should be removed, you have attacked my ego, and you have completely disregarded the need for negotiation. If that is your thought process on this matter, I suggest you abstain from the discussion in the first place. I have already said why I thought tBoM should be kept on there, perhaps if you did not attack the person speaking to you now, you would see why I put tBoM in the external links section. –BoMEpsilon^talk 21:42, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

I fail to see where I'm disregarding negotiation; I have been presenting the reasons why I find tbomonline to be unworthy of note on Wikipedia, and why its seems fairly obvious that you've been adding your web site simply to promote it and boost your ego. You've lashed back, twisted my words, and acted in a condescending manner, as if I was a vulgar newb. I've replied asking for an explanation as to why you think tbomonline is pertinent, and you've said nothing on the matter. If you would actually read my "posts" here in full, you'd realize that I'm entirely open to intelligent presentation of the opposing viewpoint. If you can produce some evidence that tbomonline is a site relevant enough to be linked to in this article, then I will by all means advocate it being added to the external links section. As it stands, however, I see no difference between tbomonline and the myriad of memberless IF websites. If you want negotation and a resolution of this problem, please stop treating any opinion that is different from yours as an "attack" and start actually listening to what other people have to say. --A rational thinker

Praytell, how am I adding tBoM to boost my ego if I haven't even added it since you've done this? My ego has remained the same- maybe it's yours that needs to be a little less large. And excuse me for being honest, "cease with the ego trip and start thinking clearly" isn't really open in my opinion. Also, I'd prefer not to continue this discussion where everyone could see- could you please contact me over the AIM name BoMEpsilon? I'd rather carry this "intelligent presentation", as you put it, in private. –BoMEpsilon^talk 00:25, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

I wanted to add that I looked at this TBOM website, it may not be very big but it's a decent enough Bionicle website. For one thing it has 250 some registered members, while MoD itself is close to around 1000 members, compared to most IF forums which only have 15 to fifty members. I say it should be linked or something because it looks like a good enough site to me, and it's still growing. The news may not be as plentiful, but the forums seem to be steadily growing, plus someone had to pay for that software right? Why not give the site a chance and just mention it's not a big site, perfect for people who like smaller crowds of people. Or at least thats my opinion in the matter. In the meantime I hope you all will get over discussing whos talking down to who and just say the facts. Keep in mind I was direceted here by someone else and read over it the best I could, so this is my answer based on my research. -Imatron

I just wanted to throw in that I don't believe MNOv3 should be kept, either. What does it have that makes it acceptable under the wikipedia external linking policy? --InShaneee 01:45, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

No message boards should be redirected to! None of the external links should be placed on the page ecxept Bionicle.com, for this site contains info about bionicle, and also Piraka.com, the offical sites! NO FAN SITES! And, also, I am very sorry for my behavor in the past discussions...--Dark Jedi 18:57, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

ATENTION BoMEpsilon: In past talks (off this site) you told Mask of Life owners to stop advertising on wiki, you said it was and old site on which to advertise. You should practice what you preach! Why are you so determind to have your link stay, when you said yourself wiki was an old advertising space?--Toa of Sound 19:02, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

This is in reply to various posts since my last. BoMEpsilon: I will admit your behaviour after the fact has left me surprised. As I have said repeatedly, I'm entirely open to hearing possibilites aside from the ones that I deduced. Maybe I'm just not intelligent enough to understand, but if you weren't adding it for advertising, what compelled you to consider tbomonline worthy of "linkage" here? This seems to be the central issue to me, and it would be helpful if you'd explain it. Imatron: I would argue that the fact that a site is a "good" site doesn't necessarily make it worthy of note in an encyclopedia entry. As I have said, I'll be the first to admit that tbomonline seems like a nice little place, but I don't find it worthy of inclusion here. InShaneee: I agree that MNO is not necessarily worthy of reference here, although it is more worthy than tbomonline as I see it. Dark Jedi: I disagree entirely. If a web site is worthy of note on the subject at hand, then it should be linked to, whether official or not. BZPower has recieved financial aid from TLG, two employees of Lego are regular posters, and both it and Mask of Destiny have been linked to on the official Bionicle web site. Bionicle Sector 01 is also incredibly noteworthy; it contains nearly every shred of information on the subject of Bionicle that is available. Toa of Sound: I agree on the initial issue, however I feel compelled to admit that Epsilon hasn't added the link to his site since this debate began. Let's keep anger in check and, as both sides have said, resolve this issue. --A rational thinker

This is in reference to Dark Jedi: Piraka.com is not an official site. The info on that site is false to the storyline, all it is on there is blatant advertisement of the mood the Piraka have. They are not gangsters, they are just evil beings. If anything else, by your definition, it should be removed.

Anyway, I would have allowed tBoM on this page, but with what you pointed out, I wouldn't anymore. But, now why do you allow that one site on there that's there? --Swert of BS01, Staff Member, Graphics Manager

Guys guys! Com'on! In the direction you're going we're going to end up with ALL the fansites, except maybe BZPower, off the external links list! And if all you can do is dispute about it it aint a half bad idea. Anyway, you're leading the links down a path of destruction. Signed, someone who doesn't want any of the "external links" disscussion to go on any more.

Mask of Life. MnonlineV3. tBoM. They all used to be on the links list. They are now gone, and there is only 3 links left on the fan sites section. When the Advertising on The Page subject was raised, site owners jumped to defend their sites; they knew that they really were just advertising. BZPower, definetly will stay on, but every other site, Greg a member or not, is going to be crushed by disscussions such as this. No matter how large, or how recognized by official bionicle, they all will fall if we keep this up.Jedizati 12:53, 21 March 2006 (UTC), A house devided against itself will fall

I agree. shameless ads.--Toa of Sound 15:37, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to point out MNO hasn't argued at all. Just so you know. And you speak as if BZP is immune to this. I'd like to say that's largely incorrect. 64.9.15.158 16:40, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Then have it removed. –BoMEpsilon^talk 20:38, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

I know it sounds like I'm holding up BZP, but, I mean, who would want it off the list, It's the BIGGEST fan site.-24.115.72.68 23:38, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

There should be a link only to BZP, and maybe Mask of Destiny. Quoting from WP:EL: "Fan sites: On articles about topics with many fansites, including a link to one major fansite is appropriate, marking the link as such. In extreme cases, a link to a web directory of fansites can replace this link. (Note: fanlistings are generally not informative and should not ordinarily be included.)" --torritorri 03:53, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

I disagree, Torritorri. For starters, it's said "In extreme cases, a link to a web directory of fansites can replace this link." BZP is NOWHERE NEAR a Web Directory of Fansites. So, multiple links should be fine.

Plus, why remove BS01's link? You didn't specify it, so I'm assuming you'd want to discard it. --Swert of BS01 ^{Staff Member, Graphics Manager}

I'm NOT saying all the links except BZP should be off. I'm saying quite the opposite. What is so wrong with having links there? Don't give me that 'nothing exclusive' or 'not big enough' thing. Does it keep you up at night? No. My opinion: If you have a Bionicle fan site, you can put it under "fan sites" in the external links list. I'm sick of this whole links disscussion and, when you think about it, it's not really making much sense.-Jedizati 13:46, 22 March 2006 (UTC), A house devided agaionst itself will fall!

Jedizati is exactly right! Fan sites are aloud to be listed in the external links! "Fan sites" mean anything to you guys? Fan sites: Sites made by fans, for fans! All of the sites are adversiting on this page!--Toa of Sound 22:22, 22 March 2006 (UTC) I am calling someone in to meadiate!

There's noting wrong with having links to fan sites, but if they have nothing pertinent to offer, if they are not worthy of note, they should not be linked to here. BZPower is the biggest Bionicle center of information and discussion, the largest Lego fan-site on the entire internet, if I recall correctly. Mask of Destiny is also quite large, has a wealth of information, has been recognized and linked to by TLG (as has BZPower), recieves press kits (as does BZPower), and has Greg Farshety (author of the Bionicle comics and a major member of the Bionicle story team) as a member (as does BZPower). Bionicle Sector 01 probably contains more information on the Bionicle story than Bionicle.com, BZPower, and Mask of Destiny combined (READ: hyperbole ;P), and is definitely a link that should be listed here. Jedizati, I may be simply ignorant, but instead of finding my argument to "not make sense," I'm failing in my endeavour to ascertain rationale in yours. If you could explain this apparent error in my judgement, I'd be much obliged. --A rational thinker

I'm sorry Swert, but I forgot about the BS01 link. I would include it. However, is this really an "extreme case"? I see site owners overexaggerating it to make it seem like it is such a "case", but I don't think so. btw, Swert, which links would you include? i'm not exaclty clear which side you're on (no offense meant) --torritorri 04:33, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Fan Sites means Fan Sites, Sites made by fans. I think if you have a fan site, you can put it on and, Rational Thinker, I said none of that not big enough or Nothing exclusive stuff, you said it in different wording. Anyway, I believe that EVERY fan site has something exclusive to contribute. Even Mask of Life and tBoM. By the way, this disscussion should bhave a serious title change.-Jedizati 17:47, 23 March 2006 (UTC), And DO NOT give me anymore Excuses,

This whole disscussion is about whether or not to keep a sertain link there. This is almost identical to the Mask of Life disscussion. I HATE THESE DISSCUSSIONS!!!! uhg! Jedizati 17:50, 23 March 2006 (UTC

FAN SITES ARE SITES MADE BY FANS, AND FAN'S SITES SHOULD BE LISTED! WIKIPEDIA IS A FREE ENCYCLOPEDIA WHERE PEOPLE ADD WHAT THEY WANT WITHIN THE LIMITS OF THE POLICYS! TBOMONLINE IS A FAN SITE THAT I THINK SHOULD BE LISTED TO, ALONG WITH ALL OF THE OTHER FAN SITES THAT FANS PLACE LINKS TO HERE! I AGREE SOMEWHAT, BUT PEOPLE, YOU ARE TAKING THIS WAY TO FAR, AND YOU ARE JUST MAKING FOOLS OUT OF YOURSELFS! I AM CALLING FOR A MEADIATOR! --Toa of Sound 20:12, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

1. - Fan sites are usually not allowed by wikipedia's policies, which you'd know if you bothered to read them.
2. - Do not post in all caps, or all bold (which I have taken the liberty of removing). It is considered uncivil.
3. - I've already asked for some outside assistance. --InShaneee 20:49, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Fan sites aren't ussually allowed eh? Well if you've even glanced at this site you'll know that thousands of links on wikipedia are to fan sites, and not to official sites.-Jedizati 20:58, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Okay! Unblock my Friend Toa of Sound NOW! Okay! He didn't do a thing! Unblock him now! Jedizati 21:24, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Another paragraph in response to many statements: @Jedzati's first comment since my last: I'm sorry, but I have no idea what you're saying. I'm having extreme difficulty following your sentence structure and discerning what you're saying. @ the population at large: Getting angry isn't going to get anything done, and spam comments containing your editorial opinion on the discussion itself contributes nothing to the debate. I'd really like to stay on-topic; I still haven't recieved an answer on my original question. --A rational thinker

Fan Sites, do you know what that means? It means sites made by fans, which is what should be on the extarnal links section, ALL OF THEM.-Jedizati 00:12, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Rational Thinker, I can't understand what YOU'RE saying, either. I can read your sentences, I can read your words, but what are you saying?-Jedizati 00:14, 24 March 2006 (UTC), Oh, by the way, thanks for taking my advice, the new title really works better, and, blocking Toa of Sound was a foolish move, he hasn't done ANYTHING uncivil, I checked into that. All you've done is antagonize him.

Blocking me was a big mess up. Warn me first next time before taking action of that kind. InShaneee is just escalating the problem by tacking insain action, and should calm down before coming back to the discussion. If this is how a Wikipedia admin behaves... I think fan sites, what ever they are, should be listed. It makes no sense, I mean, "Fan Sites" are sites made by fans, for fans. It will make no difference, what so ever, if sites are listed.--Toa of Sound 22:14, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Let's try something new

Alright, let's try approaching this from a new perspective: I ask that everyone who wants an external link included on this page, including the ones that are already there, go to Wikipedia:External links, read the policies there, and post explaining what policies there justify why a specific site should be linked to. Any links that can't be shown to conform to policy will be deleted. Right now, the only site I see that I think should stay is the BS101Wiki, since it contains information that would be considered too specific or too speculative to be included on wikipedia. --InShaneee 00:44, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Uhg, there is nathing there that says the sites shouldn't be on. We might as well not even HAVE a fan sites section, I told you this would happen, there used to be alot of sites there, now there's one.-Jedizati 01:06, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, there is. That pages says SPEFICALLY what kinds of pages can be linked to. It is an official policy, and it taken seriously. --InShaneee 01:15, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

According to that page, fanlistings are occasionaly exceptable. If you take other sites off cause they're fanlistings, and then leave one or two on, you're contradicting yourself.-24.115.72.117 02:35, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Just leave the fan sites there, or take them all off. If you have a prob with that, well, your the admin, so do what is right.-Jedizati 02:38, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

You're both right, which is why I suggest taking off all but the Bionicle wiki. Any objections? --InShaneee 02:41, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

It's your decision, do it if you want.Jedizati 13:07, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Quote from the applicable part of WP:EL: "Fan sites: On articles about topics with many fansites, including a link to one major fansite is appropriate, marking the link as such. In extreme cases, a link to a web directory of fansites can replace this link. (Note: fanlistings are generally not informative and should not ordinarily be included.)" BIonicle is a topic with many, many fansites, and seeing as BZP is the major Bionicle fansite, I don't see why a link to it shouldn't be allowed. btw, InShaneee, the Wiki is a part of a much larger site called BS01 which has much more reference info. So I would take off the wiki link and just link to BS01 --torritorri 15:28, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Oh and one more thing: all the people reading this should go and read WP:CIVIL and follow it. --torritorri 15:30, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Ug, this is getting out of control!

Either No links, Just BS01 Wiki, or all the fan sites,-Jedizati 16:43, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Please don't keep posting if you have nothing new to add to the disscussion. --InShaneee 19:55, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

BZPower needs to stay. Greg often gives details in the forums, either explaining current things or giving info about the near future (like Irnakk's nature and powers). Therefore the site would be considered a source and should be linked. Drakhan 18:48, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Anything that he says can reasonably be added somewhere here, negating its usefulness as a link. As for which site is the 'biggest', BS01 actually has an Alexa ranking almost twice as high as BZPower, which I think ends that argument right there. --InShaneee 19:53, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure I get what you're saying, InShaneee. If I'm understanding you correctly, you're saying BZPower doesn't need to be linked to because any info from BZPower can be added here. What I'm trying to say is that "here" gets info from BZPower, so according to Wikipedia policy, BZPower should be acknowledged as a source of info and linked to. Drakhan 00:27, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

I think this whole links thing is stupid. Who cares anyway.-Jedizati 20:55, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

I say anyone who wants should put fan sites up. Free encyclopedia. --Toa of Sound 22:03, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

I wish Epsilon hadn't started the whole thing. It is now a big mess.--Dark Jedi 22:17, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to point out Rational Thinker started the discussion that started the issue. No offense to Rational Thinker, but I am not completely at fault for the matter at hand. –BoMEpsilon^talk 00:14, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

I suppose I'm at fault, too; I'm the one who started the discussion over MaskofLife because I got tired of seeing it repeatedly added and removed, and that messy discussion led into more messy discussions over other fansites. But hey, at least we're talking things out and trying to come up with a solution. Drakhan 00:27, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

This isn't really "something new", y'know?-Jedizati 01:43, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Finger pointing aside, I'm still not seeing any evidence of why a link should stay. --InShaneee 03:15, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

I am confused.-Jedizati 12:31, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

We told you all of the fans sites should stay. Any site posted should stay.--Dark Jedi 13:11, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Dark Jedi, you said earlier all fan sites should be removed. –BoMEpsilon^talk 16:47, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Either they're ALL removed, or they ALL stay-Jedizati 17:01, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Again, you're just stating your opinion, and not taking policy into consideration in the least. Alright, here. Since this seems to be a policy thing more than a style/content discussion, I'm going to be bold and go ahead and edit the links section so it conforms to the external linking policy. If anyone thinks this is in error, please bring it up here. --InShaneee 17:12, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

I re-added BZPower. One of the Wikipedia policies is "name your source," and BZPower - especially the Ask Greg forum topic - is consistently a source of official information that isn't found anywhere else. Drakhan 21:38, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

You're misunderstanding that policy. That means that links must be provided for any 'iffy' information, so as it can be proved. What information exactly does BZPower provide that isn't provided in the BS01 Wiki? --InShaneee 01:43, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

But BZPower is still the original source of the info, both for the BS01 wiki and for this wiki, and should be acknowledged as such. BS01 is a good resource, but it can't claim that its information is directly from the author; BZPower can. Drakhan 03:21, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't matter if it's directly from the author, it just matters that it's sourced. If you want to reference specific statements in this article to specific statements made on your site, that's one thing, but you still haven't provided a reason to link to your site in general. --InShaneee 04:50, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Because the most direct source is always best. And I've referenced specific BZPower forum posts in articles like Axonn, Brutaka, and Order of Mata Nui; so why not link the main site in the main Bionicle article? Besides that, BZPower is the biggest fan community out there (I know you said BS01 has a higher something-or-other rating, but that's more a reference site than a community). I know we shouldn't include every fan site out there, but we should certainly include the best of the best, and BZPower qualifies.

And for what it's worth, BZPower isn't my site. I haven't even gotten around to joining the forums yet. I just think it's a good resource, a good fan site, and all-around worthy of a link. Drakhan 05:54, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

You still aren't talking about guidelines, just stating your opinion again (which is why I'm going to remove the link, again, for the time being). Just because it's referenced elsewhere has no connection to its inclusion here: those links were providing relevant, appropriate resources. Also, as far as guidelines are concerned, Alexa rating carries more weight than membership. --InShaneee 06:23, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

If that is your dissicion, I'm content with it.-Jedizati 18:40, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

i want to seriosly work this out, it is good that we finally are, it is good that we agree on at least one thing (i hope), that BZpower should stay on. I also think all links posted should stay.--Sonic blur 00:17, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

I've changed the BS01 link to the BS01 homepage, seeing as that is the page that hosts the Wiki, and has info that the Wiki doesn't. I don't see why anyone should have a problem with that, but if you do, please bring it up here. --torritorri 04:32, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

I do, and I've taken the liberty of changing it back. I understand that BS01 is the parent site of the wiki, but it's not at all unusual for wikipedia to only link to the most pertinent place of a site, and I strongly believe that the BS01 Wiki is that place. The parent site seems to have mostly fan content, while the wiki is more concerned with more official product/storyline matter. Hence, I think that's what should be linked to, if anything. --InShaneee 04:50, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Actually, if you dig a little, there's stuff that the wiki doesn't have, but I respect your decision. Also, a lot of the info from the wiki was actually copied from the parent site. --torritorri 05:02, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Why not have links to both? The wiki certainly has enough info to warrant its own link, while BS01 proper has copies of official online content, like webisodes and online versions of the comics. That ought to be worth a link, especially as a fair amount of that content isn't available on the official Bionicle site anymore. Drakhan 05:54, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Because, as I've said before, this isn't just a matter of opinion. Wikipedia does have very specific rules governing what can and can't be linked to. One of the reasons for this is this very reason: fans always want 'their' site linked to. Even if it is 'official' material, if it's available on an 'official' site, all the better! The problem is, most of this stuff isn't what we consider encyclopedic, including fan-made material. If it meets the criteria in WP:WEB, you could always consider making an individual page for it, but I still don't see how it fits the inclusion criteria. --InShaneee 06:23, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Very spedific rules? Well let me tell ya how many fan sites I've came upon on this site!-Jedizati 12:14, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

There are fan sites all over wikipedia, if you havn't noticed. All post should stay. And by the way, Shane, free country, I will say whatever I want. Quick being so disruptive please. Anger is alright, but try and control your anger. Thanks.--Toa of Sound 14:04, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

If you would kindly show me where these fan sites are, I would be more than happy to remove them, as per policy. And once again, please keep your comments civil. --InShaneee 20:14, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

InShaneee, it's my understanding that none of the information in BS01 is fan-made; from the wiki to the "bios" to the image gallery, it's all official information, to my knowledge. However the Wiki certaintly is the most pertinent part of the site, so I can definitely see what you're saying. -Huzzah! 03:55, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

You're absolutely correct, Huzzah!. The information on the main site is official. If I had a personal choice, I'd leave it on the main page (as it's where most of the BS01 Wiki info came from, amongst other places), but it would be easier to leave it on the Wiki link (that's up to date to the very letter). But, I must ask... who re-added the BZP link? --Swert of BS01 ^{Staff Member, Graphics Manager}

Alright, that settles it for me. The external linking policy allows for 'A' fan site to be linked to, and if it's got official content (that I take it can't actually be gotten from official sources anymore), that's more than enough for it to be included as a good source. I'm going to change that link to BS01's front page and remove the BZPower link. If anyone wants to dispute that, they can take it up here. --InShaneee 16:43, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

InShaneee, now instead of me getting angry again, I am going to say sorry, for what I have said against you and other people. Again, please, let all of the fan sites posted please (Although I know you won't. sigh)--Toa of Sound 2:58, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

It is against wikipedia policy to do that, which you would know if you would just read it. Also, there is no excuse for forging another user's signature. --InShaneee 20:14, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Sense my 24 hours are up, InShaneee, I told Dark Jedi to post under my sig. We are friends, and sense I was still blocked... I told him what to say for me. Don't acuse him of anything please. It is entire friend coraspondince. --Toa of Sound 20:48, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

InShaneee, I just noticed that a link called "Nuipedia" was just added to the External Links, and you didn't delete it, but only moved it to a different place on the list. Please explain why you feel this unknown fan wiki that people have barely heard of gets to stay on the list; but the largest, most popular fan community doesn't. Drakhan 23:51, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Drakhan, "Nuipedia" doesn't have any useful information that can't be found on BS01 or their wiki, has false information, and is planning to put fan creations and list them as official rahi. I'm deleting it. -Lihyahm (61.8.110.101 02:29, 28 March 2006 (UTC))

Now hang on just a moment. I know how this might look, but there's more to this situation than meets the eye. This isn't just some fansite. If you look at the link to Nuipedia, you'll see that it's hosted by Wikia, one of Wikipedia's sister projects. This gives it a bit of some special status, simply because that means that the site's creation and continued existance is approved by the same people who run Wikipedia. As a matter of fact, Wikia was founded for the sole purpose of helping to suppliment Wikipedia by providing content that people might find useful, but might be considered unencyclopedic here. What I'm saying is that this link is a neccisary part of the page, as it is a part of the Wikipedia family. Sorry for any misunderstanding, and I hope some of the contributers to this page may take a look at Nuipedia and possibly add some content there. --InShaneee 02:39, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

... Nope, not buying it.

If you want a Bionicle-centric wiki, the BS01 one is far more complete. Even this wiki is more accurate than Nuipedia (Nuipedia classifies Makuta as a Great Spirit, for one thing). It doesn't matter much where sites came from, it matters far more what they have. The official sites have exclusive content. Between the main site and the wiki, BS01 is the most complete Bionicle resource anywhere. And BZPower provides up-to-date news and a thriving fan community.

InShaneee, you were earlier limiting fan sites to just one according to the strictest interpretation of Wikipedia policy (and I quote: "The external linking policy allows for 'A' fan site to be linked to..."). Even if Nuipedia is hosted by some sister project, the fact that you would reject a distinguished fan site but allow a vastly inferior site to stay, well, it frankly makes you look like a hypocrite. Drakhan 05:22, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

We're not getting into this discussion, because the policy here is clear: Wikia sites do not qualify as fansites. They are a part of Wikipedia. Not only should the link be there, it MUST be there. A Wikia site is only created when Wikipedia believe that there is content that could be extended there that would not fit on Wikipedia. You're welcome to your opinion on the quality of the site, but do not remove the link again. For the last time, Wikipedia is not anarchy. We do have rules here, and Wikia has special dispensation. --InShaneee 18:29, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Frankly, it does make you look like a hypocrite. It seems like you keep changing the rules. I personally have gotten tired of these discussions. They just go on and on, and nothin good usually comes from them. --Dark Jedi 21:39, 28 March 2006 (UTC) Didn't mean to mess up your sig, Shane. Also, I think friend corispondince, using eachothers screen names, should be allowed.--Dark Jedi 21:39, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

If this disscussion is just gonna go on and on and on and on and on the links should all be off. MAN! I don't even know what you guys r talking about anymore!-Jedizati 03:14, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, it seems we can't come to an agreement. This will probably go on until someone gives in. I give in, I don't care anymore. You probably won't hear from me often in this discussion. Go ahead InShaneee, you are the admin, we can't stop you. Let me just remind you though: The customer is always right.--Toa of Sound 20:06, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, I do care, Toa of Sound. It's a down-right shot to my pride to see an inferior wiki come up, and immediately my Wiki, which has lived for half a year already, be buried right underneath it. I have proof that my wiki should be the one linked.

My Stats and the Nuipedia's Stats. I'm not pointing out members here, I'm pointing out articles and page views. BS01 CLEARLY has more activity done and more progress done than Nuipedia. Granted, it's a new wiki, but totally unnecessary. Plus, that wiki allows ANYONE to edit... mine requires membership, and that is always free. Plus, mine has control over vandalism without outside help, and has generally more information and a good website to back it up. Granted, the server we're on is not the greatest, but we pay well for it, and they help us out (the server also plays host to BZPower). Either have the Nuipedia link removed, or at least point out the content on it is far inferior to the BS01 Wiki, which has had time to be built and has 100% accurate information. I plead of you. --Swert of BS01 ^{Staff Member, Graphics Manager}

I agree, leave the links alone already. But InShaneee is not going to give in, trust me. --Toa of Sound 22:00, 29 March 2006 (UTC)^{MoLi Admin}

This discussion has gotten waaaaaaay to crazy for me. Jedizati, out.

I am a member of the BS01 wiki, and I would like to put some backround info on Nuipedia's founder, KFan II. He became a member of BS01 Wiki, and he made some not so good edits. For instance, he put that Krekka was a Toa, Roodaka and Sidorak were visorak, among other things. Of course, this did not go down well with other members, and they asked him to stop, but he got mad and left the wiki. He then went of and formed Nuipedia. The thing about Nuipedia is that it has wrong iformation, rules that involve Nidhiki and Krekka hunting you down, and most of the edits made by it's founder. I don't see why a wiki that is very unproffesional is judged higher than the BS01 wiki, which has a Counter Vandallism Unit, Articles for deletion page, Collaboration of the Week, and great members and Admins. I don't mind if Nuipedia is listed, but if is is, at least list BS01 Wiki, espesialy since you list it on the Matoran page. Update:Okay, I see that BS01 Wiki is listed in an indirect way under BS01, which is fine, but I now think that Nuipedia shoud be removed, especialy because it was added by it's founder probably just to advertise it.--Bioncicleman of BS01

You're not listening. Wikia sites don't qualify as fansites, they are Wikimedia family sites. That means they get special dispensation, and should be included if one exists on the topic at hand. This is not something I made up, this is a guideline, and therefore is not up for discussion, period. --InShaneee 01:13, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

I was listening, I just don't agree with you. I never stated that it was a fan site. The wiki is not like for instance Star Wars where it has a good wiki at hand, not one that has wrong iformation. But, there is nothing you can do to make me agree with you, and there is nothing I can do to make you agree with me. I've given up on this discussion, and I no longer care as long as Nuipedia isn't taking away the desivered atention to BS01 Wiki.--Bioncicleman of BS01

I'd like to see this guideline. Could you please link to it? Drakhan 02:19, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Alright, my bad. Upon furthur investigation, the policy had deviated from what I had been hearing before. Wikia sites are treated as any other external site. That being said, I've gone ahead and removed it. Now, if you guys will kindly stop flaming Nuipedia, hopefully we can put this whole issue to rest. --InShaneee 03:15, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Why do u love removing stuff? --Toa of Sound 16:48, 31 March 2006 (UTC) ^{MoLi admin}

One last word. I predicted this! (Except for the BZP part). The only fan site left is BS01!!!-Jedizati 18:33, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

It is sad that some people are so selfcenterd, SHANE!!! You have ruined a perfectly good fan site listing space on the Bionicle page!!! Why, why are you so selfish? You need a good slap!!! Man oh man, let me tell you!!!--141.158.133.70 13:13, 2 April 2006 (UTC) KNOCK IT OFF, PUT ALL OF THEM BACK ON NOW! THE LAW!!!

Wow, that is how to deal with it! I totaly agree, no good came of this... it is sad... why can't people live together in peace, and let everyone contribute?--Toa of Sound 18:02, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Why is every one flaming InShaneee? Nuipedia is gone, so is Mask of Life so can't we just accept that BS01 is allowed to stay and others aren't. -Lihyahm(60.228.191.35 01:04, 3 April 2006 (UTC))

Lihyahm, people have said that before. Infact, InShanee said almost the excact same thing at the top of this very disscuccion. Look where we are now-Jedizati 12:56, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

This is getting crazy. Who agrees with me?-Jedizati 20:45, 3 April 2006 (UTC)The Admin of the MoLi

As I said below, please keep your comments to discussion of the article's content. --InShaneee 22:16, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

This disscusion seems slightly out of control and too argumentative. I would just like to say that as long as the fan sites is following the Wikipedia guidlines, follows common sense rules and manners that make it a suitable link (ie. not full of advertising, not obscene or rude, not incredibly hard to understand, ect), is not completely irrelevant and contains a significant ammount (yes I know it varies with viewpoint but what else am I supposed to say) of information, even if it is simmilar to another site or says the same things I think it should be allowed a place in the links section. The viewer should be the person who choses which site he/she visits, we should not dictate what sites the viewer should learn about (as long as they follow the things listed above). I have been a member of BZP for a while and I think it is incredible worthy of a place in the links section as is BS01, they contain a wealth of information, BZP also contain many excellent discussions, news articles, information of future bionicle products links/storyline. I'm sure their must be many other fan sites that also deserve a link in this wikipedia article, and many which would be a waste of a viewer's time (eg. one with little information on bionicle). But we should let the viewer decide which ones to see and the site admins/members/visiters decide wether to put up a link to a bionicle fan site. If we don't like a site or think it should not be there we don't have to use that link, though if it is sensible to remove the site and the majority of viewers agree or would agree that it should be removed (because it is offensive, is not relevant, has lots of advertising, ect.) then you should remove it, but not just because of your personal opinion of the site. Of course there will be some dissagreements, but I think through a sensible and rational discussion these can be settled. I am sorry about the length of my post but I just want to make my ideas clear, I hope many of you will agree with what I have said, thanks for your time. --Tortuga Turaga 15:02, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

While I appreciate your point of view, the policy already exists and is clear on external linking, so it's not something that anyone can just decide. If you'd like to refute the policy itself, please take it up on the talk page of Wikipedia:External links, as that's the only way things could possibly change. --InShaneee 22:02, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

I did not mean to sound as if I was going against the policy, in fact I was trying to support the guidlines. More to the point I can see nothing in the External Links Section that forbids or even strongly disaproves of putting up more links to fansites, it merely says "including a link to one major fansite is appropriate, marking the link as such". This does not say that you cannot include more than one major fansite link, if it means this it should say it clearly, it seems to be saying that if there is a major fansite it should have a link in the links section. I do agree with the view that there should not be lots of minor and relatively uninformative fansites cluttering up the links section but as I said I think, as do others, that BZP (as well as any other major (I stres major) fansites) should have (and does) a rite to be in the links section as it is a major, very usefull and informatiove relevant fansite and is thusly suitable to be in the links section along with anyother suitable fansites (eg. follows the Wikipedia guidlines and has enough relevant information and resources). It even has some relevant advantages (my previous post) over BS01 that make up for the fact that it's information is less in depth than BS01. To sum it up there is nothing in the policy that forbids or strongly discourages more than one major fansite link. --Tortuga Turaga 17:32, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but there is, and you quoted it yourself. "ONE MAJOR fansite"; I'm not sure how much more clear that can be. That was put into place to discourage the linking of fansites altogether except when strictly neccisary, and even then, only one. The fact is that it's pretty easy to determine what fansite is 'the biggest', while trying to decide what is 'big enough' leads to bickering on the scale of what preceeds these messages. Wikipedia is not a repository of links, this is very clear policy-wise. --InShaneee 21:42, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm with Tortuga on this. I've already made most of my points, so I'm not going to bother repeating them, but I will say this: on nearly every Wikipedia article I've seen for a popular franchise - comic books, TV shows, video games, whatever - there are at least two or three fansites listed. It seems like you're the only one - even the only admin - to have a problem with this. Drakhan 02:42, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

You can say what you want on the matter, but this isn't up for discussion: this is clear policy, (if you can't believe that, then GO AND READ IT YOURSELF), and I've had several discussions with other admins who couldn't agree more with me; no discussion on this page is going to change that policy, either. As I said before, if you would like to provide links to such pages, I would be glad to visit them and update their external links sections to conform to that policy. Just because they aren't up to standard doesn't mean this page has to be. --InShaneee 19:19, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Replying to InShaneee: Um, I did point out that the policy did not say anything infact explicitly forbid or even strongly discourage fansites, all I said (I really don't like repeating myself)it just says "including a link to one major fansite is appropriate, marking the link as such". This does not say that you cannot include more than one, it implies that if there is a major fansite it should have a link in the links section. If it is meant to discourage more than one fan site link it should say so clearly. Please listen carefully to what I have said, read the whole policy rather than just paying attention to the "one major fansite" part and try not to be so dismissive. I think Drakhan's point on there being more than one fansite link in other articles on popular franchise is very important and backs up our point strongly. Why should fansite links on the bionicle articles be so strongly discriminated against, much more than in other wikipedia articles? If other admins disagree with there being multiple fansite links then why are there plenty of articles with multiple fansite links and why doesn't policy confirm this? I'm sorry but I can see little ground for your argument (though I can understand some of your points), though I would be pleased to hear more points supportng you view. I have already given my reason for how it would be sensible to let other major and useful fansites (such as BZP) to be included in the links section so I won't go on about that any more, it is just this matter of the policy that I think needs clearing up. --Tortuga Turaga 20:42, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Alright, I'll try again to clear it up now. By one, it means one, which is meant to imply ONE. I've discussed this with other admins, who agree that there's a lot of pages that have far too many links, thus many people seem to misunderstand, and that most of those links should be removed, as well. This isn't my view; this is policy. Argue it somewhere else if you want, nothing will come of doing it here. --InShaneee 21:12, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Okay I agree with that and I do not want to carry on this argument. But could you re-phrase the policy to make it a bit clearer thus avoiding futher misunderstandings and encourage the other admins to make it fair by removing multiple fansite links? Or you could allow (only) one or two more major fansite links as it is not strictly forbidden by the policy and it would be unfair if the other articles still maintained their multiple links. I still, as I'm sure many others do, think that this is slightly unreasonable but it is the policy of the website so obviously we would have to follow it which I am fine with. --Tortuga Turaga 20:12, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Once again:

1. The policy says ONE, so 'one or two more' ARE against policy.
2. I don't write the policy. If you want it reworded or rewritten, you have to ask on the talk page of the policy. --InShaneee 20:28, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't wan't to turn help this into a bickering argument and I said I agree in my previous post but it would be rude not to reply:

In responce to point one: see my post from the 8th and 14th as they prove this point wrong (read carefully and pay attention to what I said), in your previous post you made a reasonable justification which I agreed with so I thought it was sorted out. Now you seem to go back to your first argument which I proved wrong by reading the WHOLE policy and which says (yet again I repeat myself)nothing that actually forbids or storngly discourages multiple fansite links, you seem to be only paying attention the "one link" part and not to the "is appropriate" and the fact it does not forbid them.

In responce to point two: sorry I don't know much about how the site works and is run partially because am not a member but thantks for the advice, I think I'll do that.

But to cut a long story short: I have said I agree as you gave a reasonable justification (that it is meant to imply that only one fansite link is allowed and other admins also support this) in your previous post so lets' stop this argument now as it won't get us and where as we have agreed about the core issue. Though to make it fair could you and the other admins get rid of other multiple fansite links? Thanks. --Tortuga Turaga 19:11, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Never have I seen so much arguing about external links. Like you say in your reply, the policy reads "including a link to one major fansite is appropriate." It means that just one is appropriate. If you have fifteen, then it is not appropriate and you have an example of what Wikipedia is not. Wikipedia is not a mirror or a repository of links, images, or media files. This is what the statement means. Multiple links is discouraged, strongly in fact. The one fan-site link is also mentioned there. I could understand maybe two, at the most, if and only if the content on those sites happened to be equally as good or the two sites were somehow directly related. As for the last part of your reply, do you have any idea just how many articles there are? What you ask is near impossible. If you see a page with a bunch of links, remove them and cite the policy in your edit summary. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 21:41, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I agree with you, I understand what the policy intends to imply and thank you for saying that two at the most could be allowed. I thought two would be a sensible number of fansite link, seeing as there are plenty of others with multiple fansite links and you could get two different types/styles of fansite in. I apoligies about all this bickering but I took the "including a link to one major fansite is appropriate" to mean there should be a fansite link (seeing as "one... is appropriate" does not mean five can't also be appropriate) so I thought it would be okay to have multiple links. But I am not arguing about this triviality of the phrasing of the policy anymore as I understand now what it is supposed to mean. I really did not want to argue and I'm glad this is over. Sorry if I have annoyed any of the admins. The only issue left is wether to allow one more fansite (and only one more as that seems to be okay and I think everyone would agree with allowing only one more) link and if so which one, for this it might be an idea to start a new section, seeing as technicly it is not forbiden just discouraged (I understood that it was discouraged in the first place but I did not know it was strongly discouraged). So I guess the argument is not absoulutly over :( but it is probably near the end (pheww). I don't think I'll take that much of a part in it, but I would suggest if we do allow two fansite links (including BSO1) BZPower should be the other for the reasons I've previously mentioned. Ps. I apoligies for the length of my posts, I tend to be not good at condenseing what I have to say. -- Tortuga Turaga 19:10, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

I meant that two are a rare instance and should only occur under special circumstances, like them being directly related. Does BZPower provide a unique resource beyond what BS01 does? If it has some kind of exlusive and helpful difference, adding it might be ok, but if it's just a figurative clone, then there'd be no point. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 21:17, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Never mind. It's a forum. Wikipedia shouldn't be linking to forums. There are some cases where it might be necessary, like in an instance where a specific quote is used, at which point you would site the specific thread and/or post as a reference, not as an external link. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 21:49, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

As much as I hate to dredge up this discussion yet again; I just went to mark the articles on BZPower and Mask of Destiny for deletion, but found that BZPower already survived three attempts (so I'm not going to bother to make it four). If there's an article about the fan site that is able to survive like this, shouldn't the site get a link on the page of the site's subject? Drakhan 16:21, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't believe so. I mean, Bionicle links to everything official, and the website articles link to Bionicle. Personally, I think that's good. --InShaneee 20:43, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Surviving a delete doesn't prove much, since it is technically a notable website for this particular topic. There's also ways of influencing the vote through outside sources. That Bionicle wiki page provides everything a fan site should be in a single link, so adding more links would be redundant. I've read something about a creator posting at one of those others, so that is a plus, but it'd be better for reference links. Should you want to use a specific quote, you reference the exact page the quote is on in an appropriately titled section. Just linking for the sake of it is unnecessary. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 06:45, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] This has gone to far!

Well, this has gone way bad! It is all wrong! I think we should just forget it, calm down, and just leave peacefully, before it gets more serious. Let InShaneee win, can't stop him, no point in fighting. Dark Jedi retires from the Bionicle descussion, and it would be wise to follow.

I agree, wise descision, Toa of Sound out. Toa of Sound retires from the Bionicle descussion, and it would be wise to follow.

I agree, but I will remain on top of what is going on on this page. I will be back once and a while.-Jedizati 12:57, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Please restrict your comments here to discussion of article content. This is not a message board; if you wish to leave, there is no need to announce it. --InShaneee 18:23, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Is it over?

It looks like the Bionicle External Links dispute has come to a halt, good. If you have any problems with the way things r now, don't. I think it is now good the way it is.-Jedizati 20:11, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

That was wild. Like, the whole discussion. I'm very glad it's over. –BoMEpsilon^talk 16:42, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

I really hope it is, though it may not be as there may be some people with more points, but I think it is sorted out now fairly and I doubt there is anything else anyone can say, though I would like on final reply to my previous post. --Tortuga Turaga 20:16, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

It got messed up, but w/e...--Toa of Sound 16:44, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Page move

I fixed the inconsistent usage of Bionicle/BIONICLE to match the lower-case version used here in the main article, but BIONICLE 3: Web of Shadows needs to be moved to make them all consistent. One other thing, due to a poor move on my part. Need to move Objects in Bionicle to List of objects in Bionicle. - Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 01:43, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Great job on the page cleanup! I have a feeling that this could get Featured status by the end of the year at this rate. :) --InShaneee 01:48, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, but unfortunately this is not something I am familiar with, so I couldn't improve any particular details. I'll have this thing sub-categorized soon, and will probably clean up the articles, but any actual additions to content will have to be by those who actually know this stuff. - Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 01:55, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

No worries. We got plenty of people here who can work on that. The first thing is just getting everything structured sensibly. --InShaneee 02:12, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Everything is categorized now, though there are a few things I wasn't quite sure on. Point is, at least they can be moved to the right place if they're not already there. - Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 02:33, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

I really like that you moved stuff around to make the use of capitals consistent, but... I'm sorry, I can't get behind the recategorization. For one, most of the subcategories have something like three entries apiece and I think that's just too small to warrant its own division (much less the "spirits" category with only the one entry for Mata Nui). Second, some of the categories have too much overlap; for instance, Toa could fall under "groups", "species", or even "characters". I'd rather just get rid of the subcategories altogether except for possibly "movies" and "books", maybe combined as a "media" category with Bionicle: The Game.

I also liked the template the way it was, giving links to generic category pages that would then link to more specific articles. This isn't that bad, but it could be shorter, at the very least (I think it could be made to be more horizontally-oriented than vertical; look at the Legend of Zelda template for an example). I do prefer grouping things like this in the template rather than in subcategories. Drakhan 03:44, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Mata Nui can be a character, I'll give you that. However, those categories (minus spirits) should remain. Stuffing everything in the main category looks terrible. To an outside observer, you can't tell a character from a species or a group sometimes. I can honestly tell you I couldn't make heads or tales of that beforehand. You may need to recat a few of my changes, but the bulk of them need to stay.

This I can agree with, and I'll look into scavenging that template later. For now, I just want everything organized into clear and defined areas that can be easily modified. Style can be discussed once the content is fixed. - Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 03:52, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

No offense, but I moved your replies to my post together so they'd be a bit easier to read. I also requested that the character list and group list be merged, as the organization between the two are extremely similar; but I don't want you to feel like you have to be the one to do it, in fact, I'll probably take care of this one in a day or two.

I also just wanted to say that I'm really impressed with everything you've done so far in just one night. I've done some mass edits to the Bionicle articles before, but if I ever set my mind to do a task this big it would take me weeks to get through everything. Seriously, good job. Drakhan 05:38, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

I adjusted the template to a sideways format. As for groups and characters, I suggest keeping those separate. The names of this series are really quite vague. To an outside observer, Toa might seem like a person. Keeping them separate keeps their meaning clear and there are more than enough on either side to warrant a category for both. In general, if you have one really big list, you can and probably should categorize its elements. Now groups and species is something you need to sort out. I'd be willing to bet I put at least one in the wrong category. - Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 05:46, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lots of link cleanup needed

I thought I'd bring this here to ask you guys for help, as it's a pretty big problem on all of the bionicle articles. According to WP:CONTEXT, only the first instance of a term should be wikilinked in an article. In the bionicle articles, pretty much EVERY instance of a bionicle term has been wikilinked. Anyone want to help clean this up? --InShaneee 21:32, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

I'll try to help. --TorriTorri 01:17, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Back to it

No way. Mask of Life is back.

No, it's not. See above. --InShaneee 22:20, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Images needed

For anyone watching this, the Bionicle articles (except this one) are almost all in need of images. There's three sources that can be drawn from for this: First, bionicle print advertisements. Second, screenshots from any of the Bionicle movies. Third, nicely formated personally-taken photos of the actual models. Anyone want to help? --InShaneee 23:09, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Hey InShaneee. Sorry I can't help, because I'm staff on the BS01 Wiki, but I can tell you that you can use any pictures there. Just search for what you want, and I'm sure you will find it. --Utopia7391 16:50, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure there's that many that we could use there, since we need SPECIFIC information about the images' sources. I'll look into it though. Anyone else? --InShaneee 18:17, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

I'd probably have done it myself a while ago, except I don't know how - dealing with the copyright stuff is particularly intimidating. I'd like to help format stuff once it's uploaded, but I'm not sure how to do it in a way that has all the right source information. Drakhan 21:50, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

OK, I just tried my hand at uploading an image and including it in the Toa Inika article. InShanee, could you please check it to make sure it has all the correct copyright information? I want to make sure I'm doing this right before I go looking for more pictures to upload. Drakhan 05:35, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Sourced and correct copyright tag; good work! --InShaneee 16:20, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge Requests - 17/18 July 2006

The following Bionicle articles just got marked with merge requests but I don't agree with all of them; I wanted to discuss them here instead of just rudely deleting the requests: Krekka into Dark Hunters, Lhikan into Toa, Sidorak and Karzahni (plant) into Brotherhood of Makuta, and Visorak and Keetongu into Rahi (Bionicle).

I think Visorak and Karzahni should be left where they are. The Visorak were the focus of the 2005 storyline and are well-known enough to have their own article. The information on the Karzahni plant should be left where it is because if there's going to be an article on Karzahni, the tyrant; then it would be most logical to put info of two things with the same name in the same article. Regarding Lhikan, and Sidorak; their articles are big enough that I'm not convinced any of them should be merged; but if Sidorak is merged it should be into Visorak instead of the Brotherhood, as he was the Visorak's King. Krekka's and Keetongu's merges, on the other hand, I have no problem with; in fact, all the relevant info on Krekka is already on the Dark Hunters page, so all that's needed is a redirect.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. What's everyone else's opinions on this? Drakhan 22:09, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

I see my requests were completely ignored (save that Karzahni was left alone), and more requests were made. I reverted the Visorak merge, and I'm taking the liberty of deleting the requests on the following articles: Toa Hagah/Rahaga, Toa Inika, Toa Metru/Toa Hordika, Toa Mata/Toa Nuva, Rahkshi, Piraka, Mata Nui (Great Spirit), and Makuta. All of those are well-known enough on their own to warrant their own articles and should not be merged.

The other ones marked to be merged now are Nidhiki, Roodaka, Axonn, Brutaka, Umbra (Bionicle), Kraata, Krana, and Kanoka. Of these, I don't mind the Order of Mata Nui members being merged. Nidhiki and Roodaka, I'm not sure about; because they have made names for themselves beyond whatever group they would be merged into. And I don't feel the "collectibles" articles should be merged; I could see Kraata merged with Rahkshi and Krana merged with Bohrok, but Kanoka, at least, would be an awkward fit anywhere else. Anyway, I would like to hear more opinions than just mine this time. Drakhan 14:37, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

P.S. InShaneee, this Talk page is getting kind of long; could you split it or delete some old discussions or something?

Sorry, I ignored because I distracted. visit my talk or disscusion in talk pages of these articles. I going recreated them. --Antidermis2319 15:51, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Wow, thanks. I didn't expect you to just go and undo everything. To tell the truth, I think a few of those merges were a good idea and I might go ahead and re-merge them myself; at least Krekka and probably Keetongu, maybe the Order members as well. But thank you. Drakhan 16:33, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, I thinking to merged Protodermis and Antidermis and former one biology article, and the colectibles merged to one page, or not? and former tecnology article to Bohrok, "Fohrok", Vahki, Boxor and Exo-Toa. But I have difficults... BS01 out of net and administraders fixing errors after Lego wiki project have merged. --Antidermis2319 16:57, 18 July 2006 (UTC) P.S.: How to you put advices in history pages?

I don't think any of those articles should be merged. Protodermis is well-known enough to have its own article, and for antidermis, describing one specific virus doesn't really fit with the Biology section we already have in Bionicle society. Merging the "collectibles" all into one article would just be too big; the Kanohi article is large enough as it is, just think of how long it would be with Krana and Kraata and Kanoka etc. As for technology, the Bohrok and Vahki are major enough characters to get their own articles, and the rest can be described in the Vehicles and Machines section of the List of objects in Bionicle. Drakhan 21:15, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Ok, projects cancel. I think in others. But how do you put advices in history pages? I not know do it. Antidermis2319 16:07, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Oh, sorry, I forgot about that. Below the main editing section is a box labeled "Edit summary". That's where you can write little notes about whatever changes you made, and they'll show up on the History page. Drakhan 16:41, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Hey, I think divide Nidhiki article for Toa and Dark Hunters an Roodaka for Dark Hunters and Brotherhood of Makuta (or Visorak). They are only characteres to not have category (Sidorak as merged to Visorak). --Antidermis2319 20:26, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

No, leave them alone; they're well-known enough to get their own article, at least for now (I feel the same goes for Sidorak; I'll go and revert that). Please, no more merges for a while. By the way, given how your grasp of English is kind of shaky, I don't think you should be correcting anyone's grammar like you tried to do in Bionicle Adventures and Bionicle Chronicles. Drakhan 22:05, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I use office to help in correct grammar. And I try this section (or few sections of LEGO themes to have complex history) to haven't useless articles. its right to Roodaka and Nidhiki are double sides, but Sidorak... --Antidermis2319 22:16, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, I'm sorry, but whatever you're using to check grammar isn't always correct; I think it's main problem is not being able to tell the difference between singular terms and plural terms (especially because Bionicle often uses the same word for both). And on the merges, I understand that you don't want articles to small and useless; and I don't want them that way either. But the point of putting up merge requests is to alert people of what you're going to do so they have time to react if they don't like it; putting up a request only ten minutes before the merge (as you did just now with Lhikan) doesn't help anyone.

You told me your native language was Portuguese, right? It might be better if you worked on the Portuguese Wikipedia] instead of the English one. I know that a Bionice article doesn't exist there, but maybe you can create it. Drakhan 22:29, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes I go create Bionicle article, translate this, after request me to created EXO-Force article, after Batman article, after City article... brazilian are skilled on net, especially in Orkut and here, but them not unterstand these article. the translantion are very... stranger. The LEGO factory in Amazonia as failure, and Lego Brazil possibily too! --Antidermis2319 00:03, 22 July 2006 (UTC) (P.S. Don't hurry, "Guardian of Bionicle pages", I leave this and going to repair other themes) (P.S.S. The failure are in 2000)

[edit] Merged discussion

I think to merged List of charaters to groups and renamed to Groups and Charaters. Do you agree? Antidermis2319 23:45, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

That's probably a good idea. I only think "List of Groups and Characters in Bionicle" is a bit long; besides dropping the "List of" part, does anyone have ideas for the name? Drakhan 04:04, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

"Bionicle: Characters and Groups", it serve? Antidermis2319 16:11, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't see anything wrong with "List of groups and characters in Bionicle". It's not really that long, and sounds just fine. --TorriTorri 18:06, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Today I will go to merged the articles (Charaters and Groups). But they do not wait small sections… Antidermis2319 18:25, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Help

How to do revert edits? These are simple click? Antidermis2319 22:18, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

The easiest way is to go an article's history page and click on the date/time of the last correct edit. From there, choose "edit this page", make no changes, and click on the "Save page" button. That will re-save a copy of the last correct edit, undoing any changes that have been made since then. Drakhan 23:22, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Also see WP:REVERT. --TorriTorri 20:50, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lost images

Drakhan, all images of Wikipedia are deleted after one certain time or not? Antidermis2319 16:37, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, if an image does not have all the correct copyright information, then it can be deleted after one week. But if the copyright information is correct, then I think it should be safe. I'm not completely sure; an administrator would know better than I would. Drakhan 16:44, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Yup. If it's in use and has correct copyright/source info, it'll stay as long as its needed. --InShaneee 17:22, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Three virtues

Just asking for information here: Is there a Bionicle logo? Because if that isn't it, the old 'lineup' image needs to go back. --InShaneee 17:24, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

The "three virtues" image is about as close as you can get to a Bionicle logo, if you don't count the title graphic. It hasn't been used with the toys in some time, but it's still printed next to the Lego logo on the back covers of the books. Drakhan 20:15, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Crud. Nowhere on the toys whatsoever? If that's the case, maybe getting the stylized word "Bionicle" itself might be prudent... --InShaneee 20:51, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Sorry to say, there is no actual 'image logo' for Bionicle, minusing the 3 Virtues image.

The only other alternative is to use the current year's featured Kanohi mask, or a collectible, or even something similar. The only other alternative is perhaps the text, as you mentioned, which is rarely changed for the series (2004 and 2005 featured a "Metru Nui"-like image below the BIONICLE text. Apart from that, it's basically left to generic Kanohi masks. The best choice for Bionicle in general, however, would be the Infected Hau that Mask of Destiny uses, or perhaps the Mask of Light, as my Wiki uses, or any other 'important' Kanohi mask. --Swert of BS01

We've got the stylized word logo there now, I'd say that's good. --InShaneee 15:04, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Barraki

I think to created a article about the Barraki, 2007 characters. I created now or coming the next year? Antidermis2319 22:37, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

I'd wait until they came out, personally. --InShaneee 22:48, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Official teasers and information should begin to be released in about a month, maybe sooner. Wait until then. Drakhan 23:41, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed Bionicle WikiProject

I've proposed a Bionicle WikiProject here. The temporary page is here. --TorriTorri^{Talk to me!} 14:23, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bionicle: Quest of the Toa

I have report of a game called Bionicle: Quest of the Toa, as released in 2006 Winter. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWS3zH_t0W4&NR"trailer"). I can view the video (a remark of MNOLG, when Jaller capture Tahu), but its appear much like Bionicle: The Game. That's true?Antidermis2319 23:05, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

I doubt it, for several reasons. One, I'm pretty up-to-date with video game news and haven't heard a word of this one. Two, Lego is already promoting the Bionicle Heroes game this winter. And three, Lego would want to feature the Toa Inika, not characters that haven't been available for the past five years. It's probably just some fan-made game (or fan-made movie; nothing on YouTube specifies that it's a game). Drakhan 23:35, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

From the website mentioned in the trailer: "A film for the fans, by the fans..." –BoMEpsilon^talk 17:10, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Fan films are rarely ever notable. --InShaneee 17:12, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] BZPower Link

No more BZPower page. No more BZPower link? Who agrees.71.96.90.244 17:36, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Disagree. I was just at BZPower. I'm putting it back. Drakhan 18:34, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

If I can't link my own website that I have spent a lot of time on then I don't think you should be able to link to BZpower either. -Toushi

Because Wikipedia is not a place to just advertise every fansite out there. BZPower has been around for years and has established its reputation to the point that the Bionicle Heroes developers turned to them for help with choosing the game's collectibles. With all due respect, a site with only twenty-odd members and a wiki with no articles has no reputation to speak of. Drakhan 22:15, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

I'll go ahead out on a limb here...

BS01 will be up very soonish. When it is, we can decide from there. -Swert of BS01

Personaly, I think we should have both links, but I don't want to have another link argument. If it was up to me, I'd say BS01.--Bionicleman ^(talk) 23:47, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I Would love to translate the Bionicle Wiki page into German!

Title says it all! I would like to ask if the authors of this pages are ok, if i do this? Becuase I would like to keep the overall layout of the pages with texts and pictures. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Martin jakobs (talk • contribs) 13:27, 4 December 2006 (UTC).

Fine with me. Yyou really don't need permission, and with so many people contributing you really can't get permission from all of them. If someone has a problem, they'll tell you, but by all means go ahead. Drakhan 23:59, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New Articles?

I've noticed a number of new articles repeatedly being created with little more than one paragraph of information in them ("Squid Ammo" and "Mahri Nui" have had two or three times apiece). I would like to ask people to not create new articles until there is enough info to warrant it; instead putting new information in appropriate places on existing pages (for instance, Mahri Nui info would go under the Mahri Nui section of Voya Nui). If and when we get a lot of information on these subjects; that is when a new article would be a good idea, but please not before. Thank you. Drakhan 23:57, 5 December 2006 (UTC)