User talk:Bill Oaf

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Contents 1 Double/Treble 2 LA Galaxy 3 Gals 4 Re: Olbermann 5 Kit 6 Pekerman 7 WikiProject Football in the USA and Canada 8 RE: disambig standard 9 Re: Toronto FC accident 10 PDL Disambiguation Pages 11 WP Munich

[edit] Double/Treble

Everytime I've seen the term "double" used in a soccer contect it means the league championship and the cup championship. In the U.S. that's MLS Cup and the Lamar Hunt Open Cup. The Lamar Hunt Open Cup has been the domestic cup competition for almost a century. MLS Cup, despite the name, is a league championship because it is only open to clubs in the league. The Supporters Shield is irrelevant which is why D.C. United can claim the first "American double" in 1996 even though they were in 3rd place in the regular season. --dm ^(talk) 21:41, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Also, a treble adds continental club championship to the double. In the U.S., that would be CONCACAF Champions Cup. No U.S. team has yet won the treble. --dm ^(talk) 21:48, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm against including the Supporters' Shield in any definition because that's not how the media defines it, it is inconsistent with the way other countries define it, and it's a semi-official title that wasn't even awarded in the early years of the league. I have no problem with mentioning the double on the MLS Cup page, but it should be the right definition. I'd rather have nothing than incorrect info. --dm ^(talk) 21:54, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

The U.S. situation is not that unique. Yes, most leagues in Europe have an English Premiership-style single table, but others do in fact have playoffs. The league winner is the playoff winner. Many competitions offer a trophy that is called a "cup" but that doesn't make it a "cup competition". That requires a format open to clubs in different leagues and a single elimination format. In any event, I've never heard your definition of an American double before and it needs a legitimate source before it can go into an article. I can find many that say D.C. won the double in 1996. As far as the USOC declining in importance, it sadly has never been very popular. Nevertheless, it is the U.S. cup competition. --dm ^(talk) 22:07, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

FWIW I was under the impression that winning any two substantial competitions could be called by a "double" by the English-language soccer media -- e.g. some European championship and the domestic title. Most likely the double would be as you said. But I'm too lazy to try to substantiate this. My opinion is that talking about "the double" is probably inappopriate in an MLS context, but saying that DCU achieved a double in such-and-such year is probably fine. - PhilipR 01:42, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Re: your comment on my talk: "I guess we'll eventually end up compromising by just describing the controversy, rather than enforcing any single definition of the term" -- I agree, this is best. It's a theoretical violation of NPOV for Wikipedia to advocate any particular interpretation of the term; instead, I think the appropriate goal is to describe the status quo. When common usage is messy, its description may also be messy. Do try to avoid weasel words by citing specific instances of each usage if you delve into that much detail (though probably a bit too arcane for one club's article). Cheers, PhilipR 02:02, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] LA Galaxy

I don't regularly edit MLS articles, but because I do watch over a fair number of articles on Southern California topics, the Los Angeles Galaxy and C.D. Chivas USA are on my watchlist to try to watch over them for any vandalism.

I noticed the other day that yet another fan bulletin board was added to the LA Galaxy article. I looked at all the links, and decided that the ones that I deleted were just blather that wouldn't help the average Wikipedia reader learn anything more about the team, so they were, IMHO, useless. As What the Wikipedia is not says, the Wikipedia is not a link repository. I did keep the one official bulletin board for kids.

If having those links is the "convention" for MLS articles, I won't get into an edit war over them. I do think, however, that the issue should be hashed over at Wikipedia:WikiProject Football/Clubs and added to their guidelines if that is case.

If you want more of my opinions on some of the unrecoreded conventions on MLS articles, see Talk:C.D. Chivas USA. ^BlankVerse 01:50, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gals

Hi Bill Oaf.

I am a BigSoccer regular and a huge Galaxy fan. I am aware that many of us call our team the 'Gals' but I removed it from Wikipedia because, as you assumed, I thought it was derogatory.

I'm glad you put it back up, because it is a nickname that Galaxy fans call the team. That's the reality of it. Thanks.

[edit] Re: Olbermann

Your edits are definitely good. It was a mis-revert. I like your current version... cheers. --Rtrev 05:27, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Ah, consensus :) Bill Oaf 05:43, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kit

The kit _thinredsides has a transparent body, so whatever value you set for body= will show as the main body colour. ed g2s • talk 09:39, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

File was using full transparency. Fixed. See PNG#Web browser support for PNG. ed g2s • talk 09:58, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pekerman

Actually, I didn't even notice the Pekerman addition until you pointed it out. There was an article last month in the Washington Post that he was the leading candidate and recent articles in Argentina and Mexico have also stated that the signing is almost done. For now, I still consider this to be in the rumor stage. Scottmsg 13:50, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Football in the USA and Canada

Please visit Wikipedia:WikiProject/List of proposed projects if you want to be a part of WikiProject Football(soccer) in the USA and Canada. The page is still under construction. XYZ CrVo 02:41, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

The page for WP Soccer and America User:XYZ CrVo/WikiProject Football (soccer) in the USA and Canada is up and running,

but still in its beginning stages. Please leave any comments on the talk page of the project. XYZ CrVo 02:56, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] RE: disambig standard

Good point. A standard should be made. When a soccer and football player share the same name it would probably be best to have it Eddie Johnson(MLS and US National team) and Eddie Johnson(NFL and AFL). This would eliminate some confusion and be more informative. It would also avoid the football soccer problem. What are your thoughts on this? XYZ CrVo 16:26, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

What do you think of the Project page? Did I miss anything? I know its very crude.

Well if he goes and plays for England that could be added. I just realized that tags should be added for current and retired players as well as the league they currently play in. Eddie Johnson(MLS and National team- Current; USL-former); Coby Jones (US national team- former; MLS- Current)

[edit] Re: Toronto FC accident

i'm a bit of a wikipedia noob but i was basically trying to rv the page becuz the roster was a little messed up. Im not quite sure wat happened though as all looks fine to me Soccer fan 02:18, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] PDL Disambiguation Pages

Thank you so much for doing all the disambig work on the PDL team pages. It's something I was about to start doing myself but you seem to have the system down! Between the two of us (*and the other people who contribute, of course), hopefully we can make these pages a definitive, and ACCURATE, world-wide source for minor league soccer in the US.

Oh, and while I'm here, about the PDL team categorisation. I think we both agree that "professional" is the way to go, although I've had no actual response from JYardley. While the PDL is not strictly a professional league in the way MLS, USL1, or the top leagues in Europe are, it is certainly much more than a youth team, especially as players as old as 30 can - and have - played for PDL teams at the end of their careers. Jurgen Klinsmann is a prime example. So, I'm going to keep adding them to the Pro ranks as and when I find out more information.

And as far as I know, Crystal Palace Baltimore is now going to USL2. It hasn't been formally announced yet, but it is pretty much a given, so I changed the team page to reflect that. --JonBroxton 00:04, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WP Munich