Talk:Bill Shorten
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ALP INFLUENCE It seems to me that there was a whole lot of unsupported stuff re. internal party manouvering in the text which Personpersonperson has objected . Some editor as asserted such as facts which only the initiated would have any idea of veracity. (Is it true there are less than 1000 active ALP members? ) I support the shortened text as it stands. In any case if he gets elected a whole lot of this will be exactly what is is now 'puffery' and of no use to any one. Lentisco 03:44, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
The text which Personpersonperson deleted read:
- During 2005 there was increasing speculation that Shorten intended entering federal politics at the next election. In February 2006 he announced that he would seek endorsement for the safe Labor seat of Maribyrnong, where the sitting Labor member, Robert Sercombe, is not a member of any faction. The AWU has always been a pillar of the right-wing Labor Unity faction of the party, which controls the Victorian Branch of the party.
- The political correspondent of The Age, Misha Schubert, wrote: "The ascendancy of the articulate, clever and impressively connected challenger, routinely touted as a future prime minister, seems all but assured." She pointed out that as well as his base in the right-wing unions, Shorten will be supported by some unions normally associated with the left, such as the Communications, Electrical and Plumbing Union.
- Justifying his challenge to a sitting member and serving shadow minister, Shorten said: "We haven't won a federal election since 1993. When your footy team loses four consecutive grand finals, you renew the team."
My question to Lentisco and Personpersonperson is: which statements in this text do they allege to be incorrect? What relevant facts to they allege to have been omitted? They may disagree with Misha Schubert's opinions, but they are free to add different opinions if they have a source to which those opinions can be attributed. They are not entitled simply to delete relevant factual edits for no good reason. Adam 04:02, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
- Personally i'd ban him/her (one of them is obviously a sockpuppet of the other). PMA 04:12, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
Its the whole tone of the piece-personally I find it slightly nauseating that such ALP puffery go by unnoticed. How do I, or any one else for that matter, know that the 'AWU has been a 'pillar' of the right wing ....' Its just an assertion that only less than a thousand people on the globe could or would want to understand. Same with 'controls the Victorian branch of the party' Says who? What do you mean by 'control'? What this gossip doing on this page?Lentisco 04:15, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
- Those statements are prefectly factual and are well-known by anyone who knows anything about politics in Victoria. I am not responsible for Lentisco's ignorance. In any case, how are these statements "ALP puffery"? I wouldn't have thought that pre-selection brawls reflect very well on the ALP. I have simply reported well-known facts. Adam 04:58, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Sockpuppetry
I have been with the 'pedia for almost 5 years and an Administrator for almost 3 - in that time I have had to face nationalist squabbles, the actions of Marxist apologists, right wing Cold Warriors and the multiple sockpuppetry and vandalism of people like User:DW and User:Lir. You may forgive me for my sensitivity. PMA 04:36, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Page protected
I've protected the article and blocked User:Personpersonperson for violation of 3RR. It is not obvious to me that there is any sockpuppetry here. Please resolve the issue through reasoned and polite discussion rather than edit warring.--cj | talk 05:09, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Let's unprotect
For what my opinion is worth, the article reads more like wikinews than wikipedia - the wording should be a bit more calmer, but the actual content looks OK. There's probably more detail than necessary, but that's a case for editing, not deleting. And if he's on the National Executive, then he's plenty notable, even if he never actually runs for a seat.
I don't think this page needs to be protected any more.
Regards, Ben Aveling 07:50, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
- Most articles dealing with currently active political figures have a certain amount of "news" content, which over time gets edited and recast into the "historical past tense." I of course have no objection to my edits being edited. But I strongly object (a) to content being arbitrarily deleted and (b) to being accused of partisan editing. I edit here under my own name (unlike either of my current critics). Everyone knows I am an ALP staffer, because I have said so. For that very reason I am scrupulously careful not to make partisan edits. Adam 17:31, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
I've unprotected the article. From my perspective, I see no especial problem with the text in question, although it could perhaps be rephrased. But as Adam says, this is transitional content which will no doubt eventually be rewritten.--cj | talk 08:25, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
