Talk:Bilderberg Group

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You have new messages (last change).
many sites that you can find google, tell that bilderberg group was born in Oosterbeeck, in Oland, in Hotel Bildeberg: a very different information. the last meeting of bildeberg group took place two years ago at stresa, in italy.

prince of netherland was the president untill 1976, when he must leave the president because of the Lockheed scandal. the same year david rockefeller, member of trilateral commission, became the president of bildeberg group.those are the information that everyone can find in google.

the second half of this article seems very un-neutral Vroman

worse than that, it is unverifiable - if there were no reporters, who knows what was said? Who said it? Where they there? Also, what does the banker's religion have to do with anything? Does he have a name? Who are the European Elite's minions? dml
And this disadvantage I meant to partially fix by adding those links later deemed useless by Mikkalai. I'm going to put them back. You can trust European Commission, couldn't you?

Contents

[edit] Cleanup

Removed the last sentence from the Declared Purpose, as it was not related to said section and is discussed later


Can anyone tell if this tag is still valid? if so, what should still be done. If there is no reply in two weeks (before april 25) I will delete the tag altogether Martijn Hoekstra 19:39, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree. This article has been substantially cleaned up since August. I'm removing the tag. If anyone disagrees, please state your reasons here. - Crosbiesmith 11:50, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The 2003 Bilderberg meeting

The folllowing is written from a highly critical perspective.

The 2003 Bilderberg meeting in Versailles conveniently merged into the G8 meeting of finance ministers in Paris, a 20-minute car ride from Versailles, on May 19. The procedure is traditional: what happens in the Bilderberg is usually a preview of what is later discussed at the full G8 gathering, scheduled in 2003 for June 1 to 3 at Evian-les-Bains in the French Alps.

On Bilderberg's first full 2003 working day on May 15, 2003, French President Jacques Chirac delivered a welcoming speech, trying to bury the bitter divisions among the guests over the war on Iraq by emphasizing that the US and Western Europe are longtime allies. But Chirac's gracious hosting may not have been enough to soothe the hawks in the US administration still miffed at "pacifist" France.

An influential Jewish European banker reveals that the ruling elite in Europe is now telling their minions that the West is on the brink of total financial meltdown; so the only way to save their precious investments is to bet on the new global crisis centered around the Middle East, which replaced the crisis evolving around the Cold War.

According to a banking source in the City of London connected to Versailles, what has transpired from the 2003 meeting is that American and European Bilderbergers have not exactly managed to control their split over the American invasion and occupation of Iraq, as well as over Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's hardline policy against the Palestinians.

Europe's elite were opposed to an American invasion of Iraq since the 2002 Bilderberg meeting in Chantilly, Virginia. Rumsfeld himself had promised them it wouldn't happen. Last week, everybody struck back at Rumsfeld, asking about the infamous "weapons of mass destruction". Most of Europe's elite do not believe American promises that Iraq's oil will "benefit the Iraqi people". They know that revenues from Iraqi oil will be used to rebuild what America has bombed. And the debate is still raging on what kind of contracts which rewarded Bechtel and Halliburton Energy Services will "benefit" Western Europe.

Europe's elite, according to those close to Bilderberg, are suspicious that the US does not need or even want a stable, legitimate central government in Iraq. When that happens, there will be no reason for the US to remain in the country. Europe's elite see the US establishing "facts on the ground": establishing a long-term military presence and getting the oil flowing again under American control. This could go on for years, as long as the Americans can guarantee enough essential services to prevent the Iraqi people from engaging in a war of national liberation.

It was also extremely hard at the Versailles meeting to forge a consensus on the necessity of a European Union army totally independent of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO). The US establishment, of course, is against the EU army. But so are some Europeans, starting with anti-army cheerleader Lord Robertson, NATO's secretary general. Europe's elite can't stand US domination of NATO any more. Some Europeans suggest a separate force, but controlled by NATO. Americans argue that a separate EU force would dissolve NATO's role as the UN's world army. And Americans insist that NATO is no longer confined to the defense of Europe: its troops now could go anywhere in the world, directed or not by the UN Security Council. The impasse remains.

All these crucial developments were discussed behind closed doors. The Trianon Palace Hotel in Versailles was closed to the public. Part-time employees were sent home. The ones who remained were told that they would be fired if caught revealing anything about the meeting. Armed guards completely isolated and cordoned off the hotel. Some members of the American corporate press attended - but the public will never know about it: Bilderberg news is not fit to print - or broadcast. No journalists from any media controlled by Bilderberg multinational tycoons such as Rupert Murdoch were or will be allowed to report it.

Moved here:

And ABB happened to have sold two light-water nuclear reactors to North Korea. (At the time, of course, North Korea was not a recognized active member of the "axis of evil".)

Not relevant. -- Viajero 11:40, 13 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Anybody know of an official, or non-critical website? According to the article, the agenda is not secret, so it's known, published exactly how?

Good point. Speaking of which, how does the information on such an organization (secret or not) get discovered and who publishes it? Sweetfreek 21:45, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] "political clout": NPoV?

Is Attendees [...] try to magnify their political clout NPoV? Andy Mabbett 21:06, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Nope ;) Sam [Spade] 21:48, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)

That should have a shape, a form. [](...[])+ [](...[])+[]...[](...[])+ (...) + [] (...[]). In each [] (...[]) you can consider a person in a double sense, one significant, sintactic, and another, heuristic, semantic. There is discussion about the topic (Hintikka, for example; and basically Searle -the theory of the sign-) the belief of a single person is not substantive almost in the more cases, but what about the knowledge? In an androtic sense for the government, you should make noise before say works to anothers. Affectiveness stays in the pledge the most of the time, on that the knowledge reflects point to point the metrical of each position. Mostly a position underkissed should be a prominent position. And by the way that is the case. Who doesnt work cant manage properly the fact, yes she can manage the efect, and hesitate when the fact becomes relevant. In order to discuss, a NP comprehension of the factors is always by effect of the fact view under primary consideration; in a way like another, decisions art to have multilevel as say coordination. To each factor an envelop mixture is needed, making stress on qualities and disposable rights effective to each basic person. On the peaks of rights the equivalence is obvious, between partners the robotization of the congress gives a shaft of methafors to dispatch each topic or scene. Ad hoc, in a metadata file is intended to read the conflictivity, but not from the conscious yes from the inner x-file about, a black box remanent every day. In short, each step on the fluid of a metric movement of costume involves not always human understanding, but shadowed citizenship former "factors" More than it, jajaja, critical resolutions have to be ended from several points of view, better, lots of views in congress, doing relevant the technic execution of demostrative experience as usual decision making. Now, be sure the views of youth, children, women, "oldies" jaja, homeless, identities above all, amongst men we claim the ashes of our tobacco discomformity (I smoke, by the moon) to decir "Hey you all, you are not workin' you are havin a coffee" César Castro GMT 0:00 Santiago de Compostela

[edit] Conspiracy Theory

This group ("Bildenbergers") was (from about fifteen until ten years ago especially) the subject of constant clamouring on American right wing talk radio about how it was nothing less than a cabal which secretly ruled the world. In recent years, this seems to have diminshed as a topic for discussion, at least on programmes that I have heard. (Perhaps because much of the discussion seemed so patently ridiculous, perhaps because its most ardent opponents also seemed rife with Anti-Semitism – it was all the worse because it was somehow a Jewish cabal.) I don't know how to incorporate this within the body of the article without it seeming hopelessly POV, even though the fact is not that these sort of charges have merit, but that they were relentlessly discussed is undeniable. I would like to see someone try to handle this.

Rlquall 12:06, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Actually I’m a little surprised that nobody has tackled this yet. The Bilderberg group was a topic of discussion of last night’s Coast to Coast AM show. The guests Alex Jones (radio), Jim Marrs, Daniel Estulin all had a roundtable discussion with the show's host George Noory, and brought a lot of interesting ideas to light. Many of them being POV, but some interesting ideas none the less. I’m going to try and get something together this weekend that is post worthy.

--TheReverendDoom 17:33, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Bilderberg would necessarily be anti-conspiracy because it is known. Much is known about this group and the fact that it has a name at all shows that it isn't secret. By contrast, a group that sought secrecy would have no formal organization. My guess is that Bilderberg meets at hotels because its members would like the freedom to speak their minds without offending their weekend host. The price they pay is some media attention, but we would all be remiss if we believed that this known group was somehow more harmful than the potentially thousands of groups not known to the American and European publics. Watch "Remains of the Day" again and you will see everything that's right with Bilderberg.

[edit] POV edits

Here are the problems that I have with your (Event Horizion's) edits:

  • Changing "influential" to "powerful". Powerful is more of a loaded word. Not a serious problem, but it was unneeded.
  • Changing "but the meetings themselves are shrouded in secrecy." to "but the meetings themselves are kept from the "common people"." "Common people" is a very loaded term, and it insinuates that the reason for the secrecy is because of class. This is inherently POV.
  • Removing "Of course, the classification is made on the basis of residence and nationality, rather than ethnicity." The "of course" was kind of POV, but this is an important distinction to make.
  • Finally, not in the article itself, but your edit summary ("to fight evil, we must know it... some corrections") really calls into question your intentions in editing this article. Attempting to write an NPOV article about something you consider "evil" is difficult, and should be avoided.

Please respond within a day or two, or I will revert it again. -- Scott eiπ 23:03, Feb 7, 2005 (UTC)

  • "Influential" is fuzzy. We can agree that George W. Bush is extremely powerful. Is he "influential"? Depends. He doesn't exert any positive (some negative) soft influence on the 49% who hate his guts. He has less cultural influence even than some people I know. "Influential" begs the question "influential over whom"? I'm not powerful, have never held political or high corporate office, but I have done some things that would qualify me as "influential"... but lots of people can so the term's not terribly meaningful. I find the word "influential", in this case, more problematic than "powerful", which is neutral. To say someone's "powerful" isn't inherently negative or positive.
  • Social class is the reason the BG and other secret societies keep themselves in secrecy. Same with "Tiger 21", "Skull and Bones", and other similar groups. Why are "big decisions" made on $150-300k/membership golf courses? To keep people out. It's that simple. It's a fact that there's a group (or maybe multiple groups) of people trying to consolidate wealth and power... and exclusivist "high society" groups like the BG are how they do it. These groups are designed to keep the "common people" out of "big decisions". They'd much rather put their sons (some deserving, some worthless) into overpaid positions of privilege running smooth machines than open what they have to the "undesirables". Now, this extremist exclusivity certainly doesn't characterize all of the "upper class", and these "society" people may turn out to be a bunch of fools, fencing themselves in while becoming ironically less relevant in an internationalizing, democratizing, decentralizing world... but for now they're very powerful. They got us an elitist oil war, after all. Quite frankly, I believe that these elitist sub-societies pose a far greater threat to the United States, the American way of life, and the nation's stability in the next 20 years than any foreign threat, including terrorism. Terrorism took a few thousand lives in the past five years, quite dramatically, while millions of Americans got laid off to fund a party for increasingly-rich, out-of-touch execs running smooth machines, who get handsomely rewarded even if they get fired.
  • Third point: Fair enough.
  • I agree that my edit summary betrays my political bias. I actually consider all these elitist secret societies evil; however, Skull and Bones is just a bunch of weird, underachieving rich kids masturbating in coffins (and their reason for secrecy is that the stuff they did was so damn embarrassing it would make every S&B alum in the country a laughing-stock) while the Bilderberg group got an oil war on. It makes the latter a much more pressing evil. I'll raise S&B awareness when I'm aware of them doing something truly sinister. EventHorizon talk 04:51, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Actually, I take that back. S&B has done quite enough that's sinister. Future project. EventHorizon talk 06:26, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • Re: "influential" v. "powerful": I guess that makes sense.
  • The secrecy may very well be due to class, and it probably is a major factor. If such is the case, why not just say it in the article? Saying that the meetings are "kept from the 'common people'" is sneaky and inherently POV. An encyclopedia is to supposed be neutral and present the facts in an objective manner. While those facts may reveal unpleasant truths about their subject, they should not be mixed with value judgements. For example, the sentence "Hitler believed that jews were an inferior race, and he killed 6 million of them." is preferable to "Hitler was a racist bigot, and he brutally murdered 6 million jews." -- Scott eiπ 20:54, Feb 8, 2005 (UTC)
I yanked the reference to "common people". EventHorizon talk 21:56, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Links

The External liks section is out of control. Just because a piece of text mentions the Bildeberger Group does not mean we should include it here. This list needs to be culled and formatted into a readable, usable resource. — Ringbang 13:05, 10 August 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Delete this page now...

or the consequences will be less than pleasant. People disappear.

Anon, (comment was made beyond the scope of Earthly time.)

[edit] Stupid question, but

If the Bilderberg Group does not formally exist, has no letterhead, bank account, office depot account et cetera, how can it have a chairman? I understand that there is some kind of organization and the best name for it is the "Bilderberg Group," but forgive my obviousness when I say that the article is less than fully explanatory. Paul 04:56, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

As long as you acknowledge that it's a stupid question. :) (jk) The only thing 'the public' knows for sure is *that* these people meet, *where* they do it, and *when* the meetings take place. The name is derived from the location of the first meeting. Everything else is secret. As for the article being 'explanatory', fully or otherwise, you can do us all (the whole world, I mean) a favour if you're interested, and try to get into one of the meetings. Then, come back and write in the article (do it from your laptop while you're there, if you like) what you learn. We can, after all, *only* publish the information that is available. Should the article be deleted until we know for sure what our leaders and the business elite are discussing without telling their constituencies? I'm inclined to say no. The existence of this 'group', whatever you might choose to call it, is not a 'crackpot theory', just an observation of something the world's leaders do every year that they don't tell anyone about the results of. *If* there's a political concern, it ought to be nonpartisan: Democratically elected leaders in discussion with industry and the banking class in secret, beyond public scrutiny and (presumably) accountability may be making decisions in concert, without the involvement of the public or the free media. That, if that's what's happening, is antidemocratic and potentially illegal. Sigma-6
I couldn't begin to count the number of grassroots grouplets I've been involved with that didn't get as far as letterheads, bank accouunts etc. There was one we called a "supper club", another called the Quadrilateral Commission (one step beyond the Trilateral one) which had a letterhead but nothing else, and so on. Some of these grouplets actually did get quite a lot done, after a fashion. Probably the best way to understand this Bilderbergers thing, is as the same kind of ad hoc informal network that doesn't get too hung up on organizational details but just wants to share ideas and concoct strategies, and maybe pull off some behind-the-scenes actions. What's wrong with that? They just happen to be billionaires and their political puppets, dedicated to controlling the rest of us, but hey, they have freedom of association too, right? I think the argument is with the content, rather than the style. As for what the content is, you can pretty well deduce it without having to have it spelled out. If you accept the existence of this class of folks, you should probably accept their agenda too, or at least try to argue it out with them mano a mano if you can detain one long enough for good chat. If you don't accept their existence, then whether they meet or not is beside the point. (By "existence as a class" I'm resorting to the old commie trick of implying that you can eliminate a category without eliminating its (human) contents. I like to think that's actually true - and that these benighted perverse victims of their own hubris can be liberated. I'm so neive... but it sure beats the alternative.)

[edit] List of Bilderberg attendees

In an attempt to clean up this article, I've created a List of Bilderberg attendees page. The idea is to remove the long lists of attendees, and the attendent list of references, to a separate page. Thus far I have moved 'EU Commissioners'. In this way, I hope the main article can focus on the nature of the Group, and perhaps a few key members, leaving wrangling over detail to an auxiliary list. I guess there may have been up to a thousand attendees by now, many of who are notable in their particular field. However, we cannot list them all in the main article, or it will dwarf the descriptive part of the text. - Crosbiesmith 22:33, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] List of attendees I'm deleting altogether pending further evidence

[edit] List of references I'm deleting altogether

[edit] Paragraphs I'm deleting altogether

The group has been depicted as an international cabal of the influental and the affluent including politicians, financiers, and media and business moguls--the elite of the elite. Some believe that they have dictated national policies, rigged (or outright stolen) national elections, caused wars and recessions, and ordered murders and coups of world leaders.

"has been depicted" and "Some believe" are rather vague phrases which introduce opinion, without providing attrubution. I think suspicion of Bilderberg attendance is a valid subject for an encyclopedia, as that is the overwhelmingly popular opinion, but such opinions must be attributed to some notable source. Crosbiesmith 14:23, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Try Alex Jones. Sam Spade 11:19, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bilderberg.org

www.bilderberg.org is a partisan website. It's not particularly attractively presented. Particularly unfortunate is its use of a little animated swastika graphic. That looks bad. On the other hand, if someone is interested in the Bilderberg group, there's tons of information to interest them there. I don't think it's appropriate as a reference or a source, but I do think it's useful as an external link, for someone seeking further information. Particularly useful, are the annual lists of Bilderberg attendees. These aren't sourced, but based on the limited official sources available, they do seem to be accurate. Wikipedia:Reliable_sources#Partisan_websites does not rule out the use of partisan sources, but that's beside the point. I'm not proposing this as a source, only as a potential site of interest to the reader. I would like to restore this link after its removal by User:JJay. Does anyone have any other comments? - Crosbiesmith 15:27, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Well you make all kinds of great arguments for why we should not be linking to it, particularly the point about the unsourced lists. My feeling is that the slant of the site and its demented presentation harm our credibility. However, if you won't use it as a source and think there is some valuable info there that is not found anywhere else then put the link back. Given your sincere thinking on this I won't remove the link again. Sorry for the bother -- JJay 15:51, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
P.S. When you restore it, can you note that it is a partican website? That way at least we are not putting it on the same footing as the BBC. -- JJay 15:54, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
Your point about credibility is well taken. I won't put it back until and unless I can think of some suitable disclaimer. Thanks for the reply - Crosbiesmith 16:04, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
You might start a list of "criticism" links under which you could post Bilderberger.org --DanK 3:29, 4, March 2006

[edit] Article name

The 'Bilderberg Group' carries all kinds of conspiratorial connotations, and no-group self-identifies themselves as such. On the other hand, there is an annual event known as the 'Bilderberg Meeting', which even issues press releases on occasion [1]. In the interests of accuracy and credibility, I propose changing the title to Bilderberg Meeting. - Crosbiesmith 23:06, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

You're right, the article should be renamed. Morton devonshire 23:19, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
The current name "Bilderberg Group Conspiracy" is terrible, although it is not an official group, it is certainly not a conspiracy. Martin 22:00, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
Also, "Conspiracy" should not have a capital C, however I think a different name is needed altogether. I am reverting back until we come up with something more sensible. Martin 22:20, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
Martin - do you have any thoughts on the 'Bilderberg Meeting' name, or do you see a problem with that title? Thanks - Crosbiesmith 20:42, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
As far as I can tell it is most commonly referred to as the Bilderberg group, "meeting" is ok, but if you are keen on changing it then I think "conference" is slightly preferable to "meeting" (note lower casing). Martin 21:16, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
I have moved it to "Bilderberg group", with a lower case g (unlike before), as it is not a proper noun. I have also changed the introduction slightly to reflect the fact that it is not an official entity. Martin 22:29, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "The location of their annual meeting is not secret"

In 'Declared purpose', it is write "The location of their annual meeting is not secret". So, where takes place the annual meeting ?

[edit] Soz for me butting in

Soz for me butting in, but shouldnt we be worried about this???

Would you rather they chatted over the Internet? 24.91.16.229 04:14, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Illuminati?

Are they the well-known masters of deception that run and control world governments as we know it?

[edit] The annual meeting moves routinely

The annual meeting moves between Europe and North America routinely (in 2005, it was in Europe; this year, 2006 it is in North America, specifically Canada).

I did some editing to this article because I noticed then news item (today) that the meeting was being held this weekend.

Also, is there a "conspiracy" that some people are not signing their comments? *giggle* User:ProfessorPaul 19:37, 10 June 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Full list

Please add this to the article --Striver 20:50, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The next meeting?

We can assume that the next meeting (2007) is in Europe.

Any ideas where? When?

Thanks - norm :|

    How much 'r tickets?
They're free, all you do is sign here ... and hhere ... and here - in blood, but not yours of course 8-)

[edit] Multiple chairpeople?

The "Attendees" section seems to indicate that there are three "chairman" for the Group. Is this the case (chairmen or chairs or chairpeople?) or is there an error? Don't know enough to fix it myself.

[edit] New introduction

User:GeorgeC - I think your changes to the article introduction have introduced point-of-view. In particular, the text states that Bilderberg is a group which circumvents democratic process. Unless this is the group's declared aim, this remains a matter of opinion, not a matter of fact. I also think the text comes close to using weasel words. The text states 'Numerous theories abound', 'Allegedly, they have an office', and 'the meeting is said to have occurred', without stating who propounds these theories, who alleges, or who says. These claims require at least an attribution or, better still, a referenced attribution. I believe these changes cause the article to fall short of the required quality standards, and I will be reverting these shortly. Other people may wish to comment on these changes. Regards, Crosbiesmith 18:10, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Fixed. GeorgeC 18:38, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
You've replaced the P.O.V. with another unattributed allegation, specifically, 'its alleged circumvention of democratic process'. Regarding the views of David Icke and Alex Jones, these may or may not be worthy of inclusion somewhere within Wikipedia, but they do not belong in the introduction to the article on Bilderberg. These are not particularly notable individuals, nor are they notable experts on the Bilderberg conferences. Their writings have a familar drawback which is that they do not cite their sources. - 20:58, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
I have reverted your introduction. If your really feel the views of Icke and Jones are noteworthy, please put these in the Bilderberg Group#Perspectives on the nature of the group section, avoiding point of view and unattributed opinion. The material added was far too long for an introductory section. For example, claims about Kissinger's accent do not belong in the 'Bilderberg' article, let alone its introduction. Crosbiesmith 09:11, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
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