Talk:Big L (Radio London International)

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Contents 1 Who owns this station? 1.1 Previous musings about this same matter 1.2 New claims by Ray Anderson (June 2006) 1.3 Internet service owned by Les Plock 2 POV check

[edit] Who owns this station?

According to the licence Big L Limited has owned this station since 2002, or am I misreading the licence? Are all of the other companies merely subsidiaries of this company?

Can anyone offer a documented chronology of ownership since day one with references?

Further checking with Ofcom shows that Big L Limited has a satellite license that predates the start of AM transmissions. So were the AM transmissions under one company and the satellite transmissions under another company? It would appear that when the AM transmissions ceased the satellite transmissions continued and the name of the station was refined to reflect the actual Ofcom license holder.

It would appear from the Ofcom site that the ONLY license ever granted to this station was to Big L Limited with its registered office in Birmingham as cited on the article page, however, it also appears that the same Big L Limited has a trading address at "A 40, Connaught Avenue, Frinton-On-Sea, Essex CO13 9PR Tel: 01255 682500 Classification: Broadcasting Services" and this information comes from http://www.yell.com/ucs/UcsSearchAction.do?&businessType=&location=&screen=VAL&Searchbutton=Search&companyName=big+L&state=INI - which is yell.com. It would appear that Big L Limited was always the real owner of the station from day one - which seems to have operated by leasing out everthing to different companies - some owned or controlled by Ray Anderson with the transmitter owned by Nozema in Holland. When the various leased assets got into trouble the companies that owned them became mired in debt and tied up in legal knots - but the ONLY company that actually owned the license and therefore the station as far as the British Government licensing authority Ofcom is concerned, was never in trouble because the station left others to soak up the debts. In other words the license was held by a shell company without assets. If this is not the true situation then someone should step in to provide the proof, because the existing facts that are known make it look as if this station was financed by fraud.

The OFCOM licence was originally awarded to Radlon Media Limited in June 2002 - see Page 3 here. It was eventually amended to list Big L Ltd as the owner and Adam Barwell/Ian MacGregor as the directors shortly after they bought the assets last year.

"Radlon Media Limited was awarded a satellite licence for Radio London, a service broadcasting pop, rock and r'n'b from the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s."

Okay, so if Radlon Media Limited were awarded a satellite licence, they were a) never awarded a broadcasting licence and b) Radio London International Limited never owned anything. That being the case the only licence that exists is for a satellite service that was originally awarded by the Radio Authority. This means that the article still needs rewriting because this is not what it says. Then there is the question of why does Ray Anderson still represent the station as a company, and what is his current involvement? Obviously with the turmoil around this operation involving debts and legal claims it would appear that a clear understanding of what this is really all about would be informative and useful as an article. Right now the situation is as clear as mud.

[edit] Previous musings about this same matter

Perhaps it would be better if this article was split in two - with one page focusing on Radio London International and the whole Anderson/EAP thing, and the second about Big L Limited's current station.

I don't dispute anything which is written, but ultimately Radio London International Limited and Big L Limited are two different companies, and it seems a little unfair for the current station/Big L Limited to share the same rather negative article which mainly focuses on Radio London International. ComeOnEngland 09:33, 13 June 2006

Records indicate that these two stations are in fact one and the same under yet another new name. Ray Anderson is still connected to the station and the web site of the Ray Anderson station is still the same for the new station with the continuing incorrect information that the station is currently broadcasting on AM. The studio location is the same and the operation is the same. For reference I suppose it would be a good idea to list the actual ownership as recorded by the British Government. But the bottom line is that this article is about the same topic.

Wikipedia articles require references and it would appear that this article contains misleading information because at http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/caa79250bc2561c81798ee0b5f2cabce/compdetails

this is what the British Government Companies House records about "Big L Limited" - this is information that anyone can access on the Internet free of charge:

The WebCHeck service is available from Monday to Saturday 7.00am to 12 Midnight UK Time

Name & Registered Office: BIG L LIMITED, 65 MORDEN HILL, LONDON SE13 7NP. Company No. 04086071. Status: Dissolved 18/01/2005 Date of Incorporation: 09/10/2000 Country of Origin: United Kingdom. Previous Names: No previous name information has been recorded over the last 20 years. There are no branches associated with this company. There are no Oversea Details associated with this company."

A further check with Companies House using this link:

http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/caa79250bc2561c81798ee0b5f2cabce/compdetails

shows that the Big L Limited identified above, was disolved in 2005 only to be reregistered just four days before Radio London International began broadcasting for the first time =

BIG L LIMITED, 33 LIONEL STREET, BIRMINGHAM, WEST MIDLANDS B3 1AR, Company No. 05584154. Date of Incorporation - 05/10/2005. Country of Origin - United Kingdom. Company Type - Private Limited Company. Nature of Business (SIC(03)) - None Supplied. Accounting Reference Date - 31/10. Last Accounts Made Up To - (NO ACCOUNTS FILED). Next Accounts Due - 05/08/2007. Last Return Made Up To - Next Return Due: 02/11/2006. Previous Names - No previous name information has been recorded over the last 20 years. Branch Details - There are no branches associated with this company. Oversea Company Info - There are no Oversea Details associated with this company.

The two companies are separate entities which just share the same name. Bear in mind the dates are in the UK format - DD/MM/YY - so Big L Ltd was incorporated on the 5th of October 2005. Although Anderson is still involved with the station, he is no longer a director. OFCOM lists the directors as Ian MacGregor and Adam Barwell -- http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/radiolicensing/sat/SA136.htm

My mistake on the day/month reversal - sorry about that it was not intentional. I was looking at American numerical dates with month first before accessing the British site with numerical days first. As for the station itself it is the same entity as before according to its own web site which continues to deliver the false impression that it is currently on AM (although a disclaimer is buried in the text which states that it is now off the air but implies that it is due to return.) However, no distinction is made between the old and the new stations which appear to be the same as before - even though for legal reasons the name of Ray Anderson does not appear as a director, his management is still evident as is his presence on air. There is a long history of fraud attached to this entire venture as the Pied Piper web site clearly reveals. I do not want to see Wikipedia being used as a device to defraud anyone else connected with this venture. The Wikipedia NPOV standard as applied to this station is that it is currently on the Internet and on satellite as a broadcasting service which has a very troubled continuing history involving fraud by deception. The only way to show the pros and cons of that using NPOV is to document every detail and avoid in the article any undocumented claims of either a positive or negative nature. That is a difficult but not impossible chore.

[edit] New claims by Ray Anderson (June 2006)

Although Ray Anderson has previously declared personal bankruptcy relating to his Radio London venture and Radio London International Limited has been placed in liquidation, while the assets were sold to Big L Limited of Birminham, England, Ray Anderson is currently (June 2006) making public claims about a resumption of AM transmissions via a new transmitter.

[edit] Internet service owned by Les Plock

The strange thing about this entire operation is that its ownership is far from clear. By tracing back the Internet streaming links for Big L, they show sole ownership by a Les Plock at a Chelmsford Housing Authority residence on Dorset Avenue in Great Baddow, which is where the signals are originating. This raises the question once again about ownership of the station and a further question about what the station actually is. The AM transmissions which began and ended and are promised to begin again originate from Holland and would therefore fall under Dutch licensing. The SKY satellite service is licenced to Big L Limited of Birmingham, England while the Internet stream appears to be originating from servers located in the residence of a person living in a subsidised government home. If requested I can post the details (which anyone can find by referencing the WHOIS feature relating to the Internet service.)

[edit] POV check

There's something about this article which suggests it's been written by someone with a rather large chip on their shoulder. For example, of what relevance is the location of an internet server in a council house? I'd hazard a guess that the article's been put together by the same person as the Pied Piper web site. Smileyrepublic 16:54, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

The article was not "put together" by a single person but several editors. I have reverted to your last edit because the editor who came after you made several gutting edits and replaced text with glowing advertising in POV praise of the station. Also it was suggested that the station has "no connection" with Radio London or Radio London International, but this is not true since the web site of the station claims a legacy through Ray Anderson who founded it that goes back to his original RSL with Chris Elliot. This led to a spat between Anderson and Radio London Ltd. which had originally supported the first RSL (and still does on their web site.) When Anderson's station ran afoul of his promotion people they stepped in with their own web site (Pied Piper.) Originally Anderson and Elliot had also run afoul of the copyrights claimed by the people behind WRLI in 1984 which is explained on their web site. That's three very different sources who are not in step with each other. The Internet service is of interest because it was claimed to be a part of Anderson's station but readily available web references (a fourth source) showed otherwise. The last editor began to go in an overt direction by trying to suggest that Big L had no connection with Radio London International - but to do that would require changing the name of the article or starting a new one (see the title of this Wiki page and the redirects to the article page!) It seems that the article is in danger of being changed to a non-critical POV advertising blurb under the guise of editing. If editing is necessary to achieve further NPOV the article should be tightened and balanced but it should not be gutted of information because that is the whole point of having a Wikipedia article on this subject!