Talk:Beyoncé Knowles/archive

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Contents 1 Journalist 8 July 2005 22:37 (UTC) 2 Unknown User= 3 Her Album Sales 4 Miscelleneous 5 Gay Icon Project 6 Vocal Profile 6.1 C3-E6 is 3 octaves and 3 notes 7 November 1, 2006: More archives 8 GET A LIFE 9 Pictures 10 Name 11 Say what? 12 Complete Nonsense 13 Vocal Capabilities 14 The name "Beyoncé" 15 Cleanup tag 16 Album details 17 Check On It release 18 "Beyonce" or "Knowles"? 19 Multiracial Americans? 20 Unreferenced tag 21 Voice 22 Infobox picture

[edit] Journalist 8 July 2005 22:37 (UTC)

Beyonce highest note is a D6. I dont know if she can go any higher. If you listen to her, you see that she does not sound strained or anything when she sings this D6 note, so I think she could go higher; If this really was the top of her range, the notes would probably be weaker. On the other hand, its true what another person said. If you say E6, then you might want to say F6-G6-A6-B6-C7-D7 etc. Since its her 'highest recorded note', or 'highest heard note', you will have to leave it at D6 until she demonstrates that she can sing higher. I love beyonce to death (look at my page by clicking here), but she cannot sing A2. That note is 'reserved' for singers like Toni Braxton or Mariah Carey etc. The lowest she can go is C3. In the song 'She cant love you' or 'DIL', she hits the E3 or was it D3 (not sure), but you can listen and realise that she was using the absolute bottom end of her range. If she went any deeper, she would sound strained. Remember, range isnt simply the notes you can hit, its the compass of notes at which you can sing effectively and comfortably.

[edit] Unknown User=

C3-E6 is 3 octaves and 3 notes so her range is 3.3 octaves why do people keep on changing it to 3.5?

• Journalist says

I am the one who keeps changing it to 3.5 octaves. I always put 'approximately 3.5 octaves' to show that it is not an exact measure. If 8 notes = 1 octave, how can 3 notes be .3 octaves?

C3-E6 is 3&3/8 octaves. Its closer to 3.4 octaves than 3.3 octaves and because we do not know exactly what is her range, a good estimate is 3.5 octaves. If you really look at it, you would see that if she sang 1 more note, she would have full 3.5 octaves. If people keep altering and vandalizing the Vocal profile, it stands a good chance of being deleted from the article!

But there is 7 notes in one octave

ex. C1 D1 E1 F1 G1 A1 B1 = 1 octave

• Correction

Actually, there are 8 notes in 1 octave, hence the name OCTave. Example C1, D1, E1, F1, G1, A1, B1, C2 is one octave. If you were still counting, you would then begin at C2 and then count to the next C on the piano and so forth (from C1-C2 is 1 octave, C2-C3 is another octave). I suggest that you read the "octave" article and you will understand. And to reiterate, if the 'vocal profile' is altered incessantly, it could be deleted from the main article!

• Journalist 21:13, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Her Album Sales

The article says Dangerously in love has been sold 13 million worldwide - I think it may be incorrect cause many sources says that her solo sold about 7.5 million.

That seems more accurate. The chances of her debut album being able to sell 13 million copies worldwide nowadays is highly unlikely. Perhaps worldwide sales tallies should just be left out until someone can provide a source to go along with them. - Triggy

Are you sure about that Triggy? According to an article I read on BeyonceWorld, DIL sold in excess of 9 million copies worldwide. Doesn't that figure seem to make sense? After all, we all know for a fact that it was 4x platinum in the US and worldwide sales are usually a good bit more than double US sales. J2rome 6 July 2005 03:52 (UTC)

Also, according to the page "List of best-selling music artists", the average Worldwide/US album sales ratio is 2.99. If you multiply 4 million by 2.99 you would get 11.96, and I know it's not that high but it furthers the argument that it must be more than 7.5 million. J2rome 6 July 2005 07:59 (UTC)

Beyonce is not that big outside the U.S. Same with Christina Aguilera,her debut has been sold 8 million U.S. and just more than 4 outside U.S. The average Worldwide/US Christina debut album sales ratio is 1.5

Her Label ( Sony/BMG Music ) said, in april 2004 (9 or 10 months after "Dangerously In Love" was released), that her album just sold 7 millions of copies, with 8 ( or more ) platinum certifications around the world. Since then i think the album sold more than 8 millions, because DIL still strong in some charts around the world even this year, and now, with 2 years of life, "Dangerously In Love" album just have more than 8 millions of copies sold, with 9 or 10 platinum certifications ( what means copies sold by some people in the media, but in real is the number of copies shipped how you all knows).

[edit] Miscelleneous

66.8.251.70

beyonce is the hottest female artist that i know of. baby boy drives me crazy anytime i listen to the song.

I wonder if B. K. is truly afro-american? I mean in some photos she looks white enough to be herrenvolk! Maybe she follows the footsteps of pop king Jacko to albino-dom. Hope her ass won't fall off just like Jacko's nose, though she shakes it so intensively, that I am really worried.

I deleted the final paragraph under "Controversy" because of its non-neutral POV. Something about Beyonce's distinguishing traits could be added, but not in that way (something about a "mesmerizsing look" she gives men, according to the writer).--66.8.251.70 02:12, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Deleted following paragraph, 9 Feb 2005:

"One should note however that Beyoncé's main skill is none of the above, but her ability to give guys a truly mesmerizing look. One that makes men unable to think or make sound judgement about her. Beyoncé observation (even via TV screen) does cause dependence and sensory isolaton, especially in teenagers."

[edit] Gay Icon Project

In my effort to merge the now-deleted list from the article Gay icon to the Gay icons category, I have added this page to the category. I engaged in this effort as a "human script", adding everyone from the list to the category, bypassing the fact-checking stage. That is what I am relying on you to do. Please check the article Gay icon and make a judgment as to whether this person or group fits the category. By distributing this task from the regular editors of one article to the regular editors of several articles, I believe that the task of fact-checking this information can be expedited. Thank you very much. Philwelch 21:05, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Vocal Profile

I found that in happy face she hits an E6 not a D6. I recorded it on my musebook tuner.

i agree with Journalist cause i think you know what you talkin bout. 3.5 octaves sounds right because based on the notes recorded and heard, she has APPROXIMATELY that range. Maybe later we'll see just how high she can go.

I don't know who the above are, but I'm afraid that this all counts as original research, and can't be included. If there are citable sources, then the information can go back in, of course. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 10:32, 18 July 2005

That doesn't really signify, though, as the notes themselves are the original research. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 21:24, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

As per the policy on Wikipedia:No original research, I will be removing the contested "Vocal Profile" section until someone can manage to WP:CITE an official external source for this artists vocal capabilities. Hall Monitor 16:21, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Well, dont get me wrong but, if a controversy story can get an space in the main page of the article, i dont see the problem in the thoughs of the people about her vocal ability getting space in the main page too. you see, the thoughs of the people about it, making changes every time, its so unoffcial as and controversy story about the artist. this was an radical decision that just made the beyonce´s page lost info, and contested info, ok, but its too contested like many of other things in the whole article.

I'm not sure that I understand all of this, but it misses the point. The "vocal profile" section goes against a specific and clearly stated Wikipedia policy that prohibits original research. You seem to be saying that another part of the article is unacceptable for another reason; if you're right, then that's reason for removing it, not for including this. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 10:17, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] C3-E6 is 3 octaves and 3 notes

C3-E6 is 3 octaves(C3-C6) + 2 notes(D6-E6) which is 3.3 noy 3.4 or 3.5

Actually C3-E6 is 3 octaves and 3 notes. C3-C6 is 3 octaves, then you say C6, D6, E6 (3 NOTES). You start counting from the last note where the preceeding octave ends. Remember, when counting, youll say C5 D5 E5 F5 G5 A5 B5 C6 D6 E6 F6 G6 A6 B6 C7.

FROM C5-C6 IS ONE OCTAVE, THEN C6-C7 IS ANOTHER! THE 'C6' COUNTS AS THE LAST NOTE FOR THE 5th OCTAVE AND THE FIRST NOTE FOR THE 6TH. So when you reach C6 for beyonce, you would start again at C6 and say 'C6, D6, E6'. I know its coufusing, but DO YOU UNDERSTAND?

• Journalist 23:33, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] November 1, 2006: More archives

The next several sections contain discussions from late 2005 through early 2006. Several comments are unsigned, but the authors can be found using the Talk page history. Lawikitejana 21:44, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] GET A LIFE

What the hell is all this RIAA, you are wrong, it sold 11 million, not 4-million copied, check your facts sh*t??? Who cares? Are you getting any of this money? No, so get a life people!

[edit] Pictures

I do not like how Beyonce looks in this article. The first picture looks sleazy. It needs to be changed. This is her biography.

-> funny, I thought the picture didn't look sleazy enough. It should be sleazier to reflect her personality.

If your referring to some songs like naughty girl being sleazy is not true. She is a grown up, beautiful, single woman and is entitled to feelings like that with boys. Most woman will experience that sometime, it's natural and it's not like she will just take any cheap guy. She's only referring to one guy, she is a nice woman.

OK, no one's POV opinion on her personal character matters to the article. If you find images that are licensed under GFDL and seem appropriate to the article, then add them where you believe they fit best. Be prepared to stay out of edit wars if the rest of the community disagrees. Simple as that. Lawikitejana 21:35, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Name

"Knowles is usually referred to by her first name only, Beyoncé, which is now her stage name, but has come to be called Beyoncé Knowles by many in the media."

I was thinking the shortening to just the first name was something that came later. Everyking 03:38, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Say what?

"In the same year, Beyoncé was Punk'd by Ashton Kutcher just a couple of minutes after ruining Christmas at Universal Studios Hollywood." - ya... she can ruin my Christmas anytime. :P Seriously, I can't make out what this sentence is trying to say... - 211.30.179.151 12:44, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Complete Nonsense

"Knowles is known for her vocal telent. She was voted in 2006 the best voice ever. Her voice is Alto at lowest and a top Soprano. Beyonce voice is #1, Whitney Houst voice was #2, Mariah Carey was #3, Chaka Khan was #4, Patti Labelle was #5, and Christina Agulara was #6. She made a record for hitting the highest and longest note ever in history passing Mariah Carey's record. Beyonce voice has a dark ton when its low but when its high she proves to be the best female vocalist ever in music history."

I want to see citations for any of this, and secondly I'm removing "best female vocalist in music history" because that is an opinion and not even a believable opinion at that. --BlueKangaroo 01:51, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vocal Capabilities

Yeah they need to be added again. and also I've heard rumors about G(#)6's and all that but the D6 in emotions is not her highest RECORDED note. In "Happy Face" as in on the album she hits an E6. The rumors of the G6 were in the same song but live so I'm not sure. I've noticed for all the artist who had the "Vocal capabilities" section it was taken off.67.181.94.96 00:35, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Why has everyone's vocal profile been taken out they were good. Bring them back please

Please cite a source before putting them in. The section about "dramatic soprano" also needs a source. Orane (t) (c) (e) 22:16, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

can someone write true informationa bout beyonce's vocal ability not just an srticle from a fan site like beyonceworld.com.

[edit] The name "Beyoncé"

Her parents decided on a French name, as Tina Knowles, her mother, has Creole ancestry.

Does that mean anything more than "a name with a funny accent on"? Is (was) there actually such a name as Beyoncé? Flapdragon 16:36, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

there was an unsourced comment that "Beyonce"/"Beyince" is Tina Knowles' maiden name. -- getcrunkjuice^contribs 00:42, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

It is her mom's last same - sort of. Her mom's surname was "Beyince". Check the citation source under "Early Life" - the part about her grandparents - there's an article there that explains it. JackO'Lantern 22:36, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

I think Beyince is made up..unless Tina's family was the only family in America with that name. m~sierra

Her mother's full maiden name is Celestine Ann Beyonce, spelled identically to her first name.[1] [2] [3] --Fallout boy 08:21, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup tag

Can someone please explain why there is a cleanup tag on this article when no reason is given on the talk page? --† Ðy§ep§ion † 07:29, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Album details

Wheres the album details??? did she go gold, or platinum, diamond or what???

[edit] Check On It release

This article says "In December 2005, Beyoncé released a new song, Check On It, featuring Slim Thug. The song is from the Destiny's Child album, #1's and the Pink Panther soundtrack and is Beyoncé's sixth top five hit and third number one." Either this or the Number 1's (Destiny's Child album) page is wrong, because that page says the album #1's was released on 2005-10-25. --Blenda Lovelace 12:27, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

December 2005 apparently refers to the date the song was released as a single. --FuriousFreddy 13:07, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Beyonce" or "Knowles"?

I noticed that she is referred to in the article as "Beyonce" - despite common encyclopedic convention to refer to people by their surname. Was this done on purpose, because she's mostly known by her "one name", or did someone just make a mistake? Should I change all those lines to "Knowles"? JackO'Lantern 22:36, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

I started to do that myself, but decided it does fall under the "one-name celebs" category. As they say, your mileage may vary ... I don't know that writing "Knowles" would be glaringly inappropriate, as it would be with Madonna or Cher, where it would look really odd).Lawikitejana 21:35, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Multiracial Americans?

Do you think this category would be appropriate, considering her mother's family are Creoles? JackO'Lantern 06:49, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

I guess everyone's a little bit multi-racial.. so yes -- getcrunkjuice^contribs 22:33, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

I wouldn't put Beyonce in the multiracial category, simply because most Black Americans have some caucasian ancestry. You'd have to add everyone! But maybe if there's some list of guidelines somewhere that outlines how many generations back you're allowed to go before it's too diluted to make you "multiracial," then you could go by that, though I doubt anything like that exists, since racial designations can be, after all, arbitrary, unscientific, and meaningless. But that's a different argument entirely. Nrclptkrkr41 21:20, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Not really... Most African Americans (over 50 percent and I believe the true approximation is 70%) are pure African but multiracial in the terms of the various African countries they originate from. A study published on PubMed.com on the racial admixture of African Americans is where this research comes from. In the study a lot of African Americans informed the researchers that they had multicultural ancestry- but the genes did not reflect this diversity of origin. Perhaps culturally a lot of African Americans feel compelled to claim European ancestry when in reality they have none. The colonial mentality could be the reason for this. I suspect that a lot of the mixed race Black Americans feel that "all Black people are mixed" because the only Black people they may ever see and interact with are within their historically isolated populations.

So if you mean multiracial as in descended from non African ancestors- then no. Most African Americans certainly do not have Caucasian blood. The study showed that Creoles compose a large part of the multicultural diversity-as most Creoles have Caucasian blood- and without them the mixed race African American population would be even smaller and more isolated than it is today. The belief that African Americans are predominately multicultural is a huge misconception. Perhaps in time this will be the case- but not now. We are a diverse people- city by city you'll see great genetic and cultural differences.

Study the history of African Americans and you'll clearly see that there are a great deal of intra-racial problems that have occurred because of diversity and racial differences within this ethnic group. African Americans with Caucasian ancestry have historically lived in isolation from other African Americans. They were either self imposed to do this or they were forced to due to racism within the Black community. Those who did not do this were regarded as anomalies while growing up because they were such an unfamiliar sight."The Color Complex" by Cathy Russell et Al. can shed some more light on this.

I am in favor of Beyonce being classified as both African American, Creole, or multiracial because she represents a minority within African American diversity. She is one of the many Black entertainers that can have their success attributed to mixed features. Piratescat 06:45, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I apologize for the misconception. A friend of mine who is an African American Studies major and African American herself had said something like 80% of African Americans whose families have slave origins have at least one caucasian ancestor, and I had heard similar "facts" in the past, though the published studies and books you referenced are more valid than the word of a lay person. Sorry about that. I suppose then Beyonce is multiracial. Thanks for clearing that up. Nrclptkrkr41 05:21, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Beyonce wouldn't be considered mixed or multiracial. That just the image she makes of herself.. She isn't even Creole. Unless Tina's father was white..she isn't either..she'd be multiracial. A multiracial person is= 1 or both parents are biracial. A Creole is more white than black..example a mulatta mom white dad., the white being French or spanish or a mix of the two...it isn't every light skinned black with a french surname. It's like whites who claim "native" blood..it doesn't count if your grandmother was part..that is too far..that's ethnic cleansing Almost all white Europeans have Asian blood..Indo-European,Celtic so on but they are not seen as mixed or even Asians to anyone..just white lower class whites...while in the black world it's reversed. m~sierra

Another Point of View

Many Africans that were brought to the New World, too, were already mixed across ethic/racial lines. So, non-negro bloodlines were presence in many since sub-Saharan groups already had experienced years of ethnic fusion with Persian, Arabic, Syrian, Semetic, and Asian groups. You will find lingustic and cultural influences among Indigenous sub-Sarhan Africans of other regions that have existed for eons. This aspect of their societies wasn't the only part of them left behind. So the Caucasian ancestry could have been introduced in one's bloodline way before their African ancestors set foot on American soil. Doesn't mean they showed apparent signs of having caucasian ancestors, either.

Also, there I feel there is a difference between being multi-ethnic and multi-racial. Being that most of Beyonce's recent forefather probably identified as either Black or Creole, I'd consider her a multi-ethnic Bi-racial woman who identifies as being Black. However in the singer Vanessa Williams' case, who has a similar blended aesthetic appearance, it has been implied that all of her recent ancestors identified as Black people, despite no being full-blooded sub-Saharan types. I'd consider her a multi-ethnic Black woman due to her distant muli-ethic heritage and her current inherited racial identity.

Ancestry By DNA.com is a very informative website. This company was involved in the BBC's 2003 Motherland - A Genetic Journeyproject. It speaks of the fact that since the dawn of man, people have been constantly on the move, evolving, mutating and mixing with one another (in an ethnic/racial sense). They also cover that there are two aspects of race and the concept of race is significanly more complex than it is generally understood and applied by most people. I believe that there are no individuals living today, none, that are not a product of racial or ethnic fusion occuring in the recent or distant past. Relir 16:58, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Beyoncé is a light skinned Black woman just like her mother, get over it people. [Nita 12:10am CST September 25, 2006]

Hypocracy? I feel that this use of the term Mulatto is not politically correct. I am disturbed that wikipedia.org would apply this terminology when there are so many other non-controversial ethinic descriptions available. There are other living persons notated in wikipedia that state the ethnicity of a person as being multiracial or of mixed race. A "race of black people" were kidnapped and brought to the Americas in chains during the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade. In slavery this "race of black people" were treated like cattle or property. If a slave-owner (Caucasian, Dutch, Spanish, etc.)desired sexual relations, [which according to the antibellum social code he would not get from his wife]blatantly went out the to slave cabins and 'took' a slave woman and satisfied himself. This led to the insiduous inbreeding that has produced the mixed race of known as "Mulatto". There are other negative and pejorative terms for this mixed race of peoples [octaroon, quadroon, red, high yellow] High yellow is described in the wikipedia article referenced here-- High Yella or High Yellow: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_yellow

To clear up this freudian slip please reference the wikipedia article 'Glossary of terms for multiraciality': http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terms_for_multiraciality it contains a list of non-offensive ethnic descriptions.

For sometime now I have considered wikipedia.org as somewhat of an internet authority. From time to time I refer to this site for personal knowledge and current information. I now question the significance and validity of any information listed here. SxzBlu 09:43, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Mulatto is not politically correct?? It never bother me.. It's like the term "Native American"..this is only correct to whites us with indian blood call ourselves indian..it's white folks who claim to be offended..the ones who doesn't have enough of that ethnic blood ..the ones who have to tell people or you wouldn't know..who feels the need to fight others who use these words. m~sierra

Beyoncé is a light skinned Black woman just like her mother, get over it people. [Nita 10:59pm CST September 24, 2006]

The human race is one and we have all been interbreeding for centuries. Whenever two races meet a significant minority will interbreed with no necessary ill effects. Indeed what is the American race? What is the European race? The whole concept of race is dubious these days. SmokeyTheFatCat 22:02, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

There's a whole huge discussion on this issue anywhere on Wikipedia that involves categories or lists of "multiracial" people. You may want to join that discussion (and possibly consider the issue sufficiently raised here — soon there will be no room to discuss anything else about the article, and we've pretty much gotten off the discussion of these terms as related specifically to Knowles, anyway). Lawikitejana 21:35, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Unreferenced tag

I think that these need to be referenced:

After singing at local events, they got their break when they entered Star Search. The group, then named "Girl's Tyme", were heartbroken after averaging only three stars (out of a possible four), losing the competition. Matthew Knowles, Beyoncé's father and Rowland's legal guardian, decided to help the girls reach their dreams of becoming singers. He quit his six figure salary job at Xerox to manage the group.

In 2001, Knowles, without any previous training, turned to acting

Beyoncé and Kelly Rowland, along with Matthew Knowles, Tina Knowles, and sister Solange Knowles recently announced the formation of the Survivor Foundation, a charitable entity set up for the purpose of providing transitional housing for Hurricane Katrina victims and storm evacuees in the Houston, Texas area. The Survivor Foundation extends the philanthropic mission of the "Knowles-Rowland Center For Youth", a multi-purpose community outreach facility in downtown Houston.

and the "records" and "voice" section -- getcrunkjuice^contribs 22:31, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

OK, give me 24 hours and I'll either cite these or restore the tag myself. JackO'Lantern 23:05, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

• Done. I sourced everything you mentioned, but I just couldn't find anything for "Voice", so I'll move it here for now until someone else can.

[edit] Voice

Knowles has been classified as a Dramatic Mezzo-Soprano because of the strength and power of her singing voice. She has also been classified as a Full or Wagnerian Soprano due to the ease of her performance in alto, mezzo soprano, and soprano ranges. She is also capable of using high and fast melismas and this technique is a unique feature to her sound. She has been frequently hailed as one of the best contemporary pop singers. In Cove Magazine's countdown of the "100 Most Outstanding Pop Vocals" of all time, she was placed at number #7 (just one place behind Whitney Houston) and given a mark of 48/50 for her vocal capabilities.

Her highest notes are E6 (in her song "Happy Face"); her lowest notes are C3and E3 (while singing "Dangerously In Love" at the 2004 Grammys). Her vocal range is approximately 3.3 octaves (C3-E6). JackO'Lantern 03:04, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

• • • Has nobody got a vocal recorder that allows you to recognise pitch that would somehow make this more official. I mean I'm sure that the notes she produces in the 'live in Atlanta DVD' are higher than stated here.

• Also could not source this statement: "* With the combined albums and singles of her solo career, she has sold more than 15.5 million records worldwide" JackO'Lantern 03:08, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

• • • What about her low notes in "Silent Night" from the 8 Days of Christmas album, "She Can't Love You" from The Writing's On The Wall, or "Dot" from the Charlie's Angels soundtrack? To me, they sound lower than anything she's ever done performing "Dangerously In Love." Can anybody give them a listen and decide what those low notes are?

[edit] Infobox picture

There are so many more beautiful pictures of Beyonce and I feel that the one in the info box should be changed.

• I put the picture of her from the Pink Panther set. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tigermichal (talk • contribs) .

I think that the Pink Panther pic is alright - it's her most recent release of any kind -- getcrunkjuice^contribs 01:09, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

It's a nice picture. [Nita 4:20pm CST]

I think the recent B'Day promotional photo is unacceptable for an encyclopedia, it's best to bring back the Pink Panther one instead.