Talk:Bauhaus (band)

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Contents 1 Wrong Brother 2 Bela Lugosi's Dead: Gothic Myth 3 Goth: Movement or Fashion Statement? 4 Origins of "Goth" 5 Joy Division 6 discography

[edit] Wrong Brother

The first paragraphs of the band beginnings is incorrect - David J's brother is Kevin Haskins, not Daniel Ash. Brandon

[edit] Bela Lugosi's Dead: Gothic Myth

Bauhaus frontman Peter Murphy had insisted that "Bela Lugosi's Dead" was recorded as a joke. I don't personally believe there was such a thing as "gothic" music. The term is about as meaningless and artificial as "alternative" (aka alternateen) or the "Right vs Left" paradigm. In my experience, there was little difference between jocks, preppies, rockers and gothics (or batcavers). The latter clique consumed a wider variety of mind altering substances perhaps. Although many may have deluded themselves that they were being non-conformists by scaring their parents with a "paint it black" dress sense, the "goth" clique was not exceptionally different socially or philosophically. It wasn't a movement. A clique is a clique, a herd is a herd. False choices seem to abound in life!

[edit] Goth: Movement or Fashion Statement?

More than anyone else I credit the beautiful and talented Siouxsie Sioux with developing the "gothic" look. She seems to be the prototype for the clothing and makeup that came to be associated with "gothic."

Steve Severin (Banshees bassist) and Robert Smith (Cure vocalist and one-time Banshees guitarist) were similarly fascinated with her fashion sense. According to Siouxsie, "Put it down to Robert and Severin together. It's all their fault. Both of them would take my clothes and my jewelry. There were some strange nights going on there, lots of cross dressing and clothes swapping. Except they never had anything I wanted to wear."

Her fans also began to emulate her unique style. The look eventually spread across the Atlantic to America. Commented Sioux, "Actually, it's funny -- at quite a lot of our concerts, I used to look out and see all these little Robert Smiths." The Siouxie look with a little Sid Vicious (Sex Pistols) and Rozz Williams (Christian Death) thrown in....

[edit] Origins of "Goth"

It is not "generally accepted" that Bauhaus was "the first goth band". The Banshees both was formed and released their first album before Bauhaus, and have in my opinion been as least as influential to the goth scene.

Geira 16:22, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

In my experience, most people think of Bauhaus as the first, although, yes, Siouxsie was there first. However, her band was much more punky until just around the same time that the "Bela Lugosi's Dead" single came out. I suppose we need some outside sources to back up any statements here, though. Folkor 17:23, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

My favorite origin tale of the term "goth[ic]" comes from Ian Astbury of The [Southern Death] Cult, who incidentally himself also possessed unusual dress sense , according to Steve Keaton writing in the Dec 14, 1981 issue of Sounds: "The singer is weird, really weird. His face...is hidden beneath an avalanche of red and black hair and rabbit skin pom-poms...."

"The goth tag was a bit of a joke," insists Ian Astbury. "One of the groups coming up at the same time as us was Sex-Gang Children, and Andi [Sex-Gang] -- he used to dress like a Banshees fan, and I used to call him the Gothic Goblin because he was a little guy, and he's dark. He used to like Edith Piaf and this macabre music, and he lived in a building in Brixton called Visigoth Towers. So he was the little Gothic Goblin, and his followers were Goths. That's where goth came from."

Pete Scathe covers this subject in fascinating detail in A History of Goth.

Scathe's site contains a number of artist quotes excerpted from "The Beautiful People," an interesting retrospective written by Suzan Colon for the July 1997 issue of Details Magazine.

Richard 23 21:42, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Bauhaus was the first gothic band as in: first band to be recognised and defined as Goth. There were bands before that could be labelled as gothic as well if you back to them. Joy Division for one, or The Damned (their frontman David Vanian was the first person to introduce the gothic look in music, and also used the look off-stage unlike most performers, so we may should credit Vanian as being the first true Goth in music). However, none of those bands got the Gothic label because there was no such subculture, this started of when Bauhaus also emerged. Bauhaus also deliberately aimed for a rather eerie/horror-esque image and stage antics, further seeking the Goth label. I guess they do deserve the title of godfathers of Goth, even though the music of mainly Joy Division can also be labelled Goth. They never had the label though in their days and also didn't really deliberately search to create an atmosphere that is now known as gothic. Nocturnal Me 21:59, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Joy Division

Yeah, whatever. Isn't Joy Division the first gothic band ever? I mean, I'm pretty sure they are even if wikipedians hit me with all their neurosis. 168.243.218.2

Most people don't actually consider Joy Division as a goth band. I had a protracted argument with my best friend for several months about this, and eventually, I realized he was right. Joy Division is more proto-goth, but Bauhaus deserves the credit as the first real goth band. At least, in my opinion. If you can give a good argument as to why you think Joy Division counts as the first goth band, I'd like to hear it. Folkor 19:31, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

I think Joy Division created the goth "musical" style, and Bauhaus the "fashion" part. Musicaly, Joy Division's sound in songs like Love Will Tear Us Appart, Dead Souls, She's Lost Control, etc. created the goth sound. 168.243.218.2

You have a point there - Joy Division's fashion wasn't gothic, while Bauhaus's clearly was. I wouldn't call "Love Will Tear Us Apart" gothic - the upbeat feel and especially the keyboard make me lean towards more of a New Wave feel. The lyrics, however, as with most Joy Division lyrics, are rather gothic in nature. "She's Lost Control" and "Dead Souls" have a very gothic feel to them, but it's not quite the same as what Bauhaus did. Joy Division's guitars were always rather distorted, while Bauhaus's tended to be cleaner ("Spirit", "Bela Lugosi's Dead") or distorted to a point where the feedback was quite intense ("Dark Entries"). Bauhaus would never use a keyboard like in "Love Will Tear Us Apart". If I remember right, in the booklet in the Everything! album by Tones on Tail, Ash said something about purposely using keyboards and synthesizers, since such activity was forbidden in Bauhaus. Just a couple arguments. Folkor 06:37, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Joy Division may use a keyboards, but it's used in a way that gives you the sensation of being in an abandoned and lonely place. That's a very goth keyboard. 168.243.218.2

(I'm going to stop adding colons, because it's indenting too far.) That's a very subjective statement, not that there is necessarily something wrong with that. However, I think that the keyboards in songs like "Love Will Tear Us Apart" and "Isolation" do just the opposite of what you say - I think they sound uplifting and bright, despite the dark lyrics. "Transmission" also gives off the same feeling. To quote from A History of Goth, "Bauhaus are the first band who cannot be comfortably classified as anything other than goth. UK Decay and The Banshees could be considered punk, The Cure could be considered New Wave, Joy Division could be considered post-punk, but Bauhaus were unmistakably goth in music, looks, lyrics, art and style right from their first single." That site discusses why Joy Division was a big, big influence on gothic music but isn't really gothic in and of itself. Of course, there is still room for argument, and that is just one site and therefore one opinion. Folkor 04:25, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

Bauhaus are to goth as the Sex Pistols are to punk. They may not have started the movement, but they defined it. I think it's safe to call them the definitive goth band. --Switch 11:24, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Well put. -- Jon Dowland 18:01, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] discography

Crackle is not from the year 2000 , but from the year 1998.81.245.245.152 23:40, 14 July 2006 (UTC)