Talk:Battle of Aljubarrota

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Contents 1 When a caption isn't appriopriate 2 Warning 3 Wrong pronounciation 4 Note 2 about "Present day territories"

[edit] When a caption isn't appriopriate

On the Battle of Aljubarrota page there is a large battle plan. Would be best way to deal with this be to remove it from this page and leave it in the article only as a link to the image page and to write a full description on the image page? I feel it will be impossible to gain any meaning from a thumbnail sized image, and the current situation of having the large image appended to the end of the article seams to me to be wrong.

[edit] Warning

IMHO this needs a picture, more ilinks and some expantion, or this is going to hit Wikipedia:Featured article removal candidates. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 22:05, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Wrong pronounciation

Batalya is not a valid transcription of the pronounciation of batalha, nor would bataglia be. In this case we'd need the IPA.

The palatal consonants lh in Batalha (equivalent of Spanish ll) is IPA ʎ ; batalha would be bɐtaʎɐ. But this needs verifying, for I'm not sure. The Ogre 06:28, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

lh is not pronounced the same as the spanish ll. --CSTAR 16:20, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Okay. I'll grant that. Still, do you think that the IPA I proposed to batalha is correct? The Ogre 17:16, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I don't now anything about IPA, but it is pronounce batalya with all the a's pronounced as in bar.--CSTAR 18:27, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

I'm sorry CSTAR, but now I must desagree. My mother language is portuguese, and batalha is not pronounced batalya and the a's are not all pronounced the same way, either in european portuguese or brazilian. The Ogre 22:29, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Well OK I'm a native spanish speaker BUT I lived (and taught at the University) for a decade in Rio. Please don't tell me barulho, mergulho, canalha, (Caralho for that matter) are pronounced without a light l sound (e.g barulyo, canalya with nasal vowels). You are CORRECT the a's aren't all pronounced the same in batalha, but I was trying to find the closest english pronunciation, and in particular to stress that the a's are not pronounced like a in bat.--CSTAR 01:31, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Melhor do que isso só mesmo o silêncio

E Melhor do que o silêncio só João

(Caetano).--CSTAR 01:57, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Well CSTAR, the most I am able to concede is that in some brazilian varieties of the portuguese language the lh may have an extremely brief and light i sound. That sound, however, is non-counspicuous to native speakers. In european portuguese that briefest and lightest of sounds does not exist. The Ogre 18:39, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Ah yes. But then that does seem to point to a problem of IPA as a pronunciation guide. To assert that the ll and lh sounds have the same representation in IPA (as is indeed apparently the case) is not very helpful to a non-native speaker. In other words if I said in my spanish pronunciation you "que carallo voce esta dizendo" ('tou brincando) I wonder if that carallo would make sense and be understood as caralho (and yes I know, you portuguese and most brazilians unlike us morbid spanish speakers hardly use that profanity as I discovered long ago as I muttered carajo under my breath as I realized I forgot my keys).

That sound, however, is non-counspicuous to native speakers. Well of course, because that's the definition of a minimal pair.--CSTAR 21:52, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

bɐ'taʎɐ is the correct transcription in IPA (for European Portuguese). This is not, however, the same as "batalya". See lateral palatal approximant. FilipeS 16:50, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Note 2 about "Present day territories"

In my very humble opinion, the note 2 should be rewritten something like:

At this time (fourteenth century), Castile is not synonymous with "Spain". That country appeared only in the end of the fifteenth century, with the marriage of Isabella of Castile and Ferdinand of Aragon (the rulers, together, of present-day Castile, Leon, Aragon, Catalonia, Valencia and the Balearic Islands and other territories outside the Iberian Peninsula such as Canary Islands, Sicily)—"The Catholic Monarchs."

As this is such an awarded article and there is even an audio version I just make this modest comment so if anyone with more background in history than me (easy) takes my point and edits in a suitable note the small note.Basquetteur 14:46, 11 November 2005 (UTC)