User talk:Barefact

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You have new messages (last change).

Wikipedia gives you plenty of opportunities to display, voice, and substantiate your beliefs

Wrong! wikipedia is not a place for anyone to display their beliefs, it is an encyclopaedia, therefore your POV statements will be taken out, no matter what article you are dealing with.Khosrow II 17:29, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

did you write all of that yourself or did you just copy paste from another source? also, you need to site which source goes to which section of the artilce. that is what i mean. also, this is not a place for people to put down their "beliefes", its a place for facts and facts only. also, please add comments to the bottom of the page, not the top, and you do not need to create a new section everytime.Khosrow II 00:24, 29 July 2006 (UTC)


Answer the question, did you or did you not copy paste this from somewhere else? if you have you have to take it off completely or re-write it all in your own words.Khosrow II 18:57, 29 July 2006 (UTC)


first of all, answer my question: DID YOU COPY PASTE ALL OF THAT INFORMATION FROM ANOTHER SOURCE?
regarding posting on peoples talk pages, just create one header at the bottom regarding what you want to talk about, and then put your messages regarding that in that same section. also, i did not vandalize anything, and the article has some serious POV issues that i and other users will clean up later, once other disputes are settled.Khosrow II 20:08, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
there are two problems with your "addition". 1) it was a copy paste and 2) it was from a pan turk website. The wikipedia policies are on my side, you want to have an admin decide this for us? I would be very happy.Khosrow II 22:59, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Scytho-Iranian theory

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia! We appreciate your contributions to the Scytho-Iranian theory article, but we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material. Perhaps you would like to rewrite the article in your own words. For more information, take a look at Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Happy editing! —Khoikhoi 02:14, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

I would actually prefer to write—it can be by email, IM, etc. if you want. If you really want to talk, you might try asking someone else about the policy, a good place to go is Wikipedia:Village pump (policy). Sorry about that. —Khoikhoi 23:03, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

The article has been nominated for deletion. You may wish to comment. -- Slowmover 19:11, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reply

Barefact, I did as a matter of fact email you awhile ago. I'll resend it—let me know if you get it. —Khoikhoi 04:17, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Strange. Do you mind if I just post the reply here on your talk page? —Khoikhoi 03:46, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
No, please do post it right here, what else can I do? I still would like the mail to work, it may be that the real asault has not started yet, it was only a first salvo to kill the subject directly, and I may need to know how the mail works to help me rebuff other determined vandalism.
Thank you for your responsiveness
Barefact 04:45, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
Hmmm, try going to your preferences and add your email there. Let me know when you have done so. —Khoikhoi 04:57, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
Sorry, how bumb of me, I thought that if I send thru Wikipedia machinery the reply would come thru the same machinery, and it did not down on me to check my registered e-mail address until you sent me to preferences. I apologyze for my nuisance. I did receive both replies, thanks.
please discuss something before you revert that far back - FYI, you also erased the dispute tags and interwikis
To erase was not my intent, I have a copy with tags and warnings, and I wanted to upload it tonight, along with a faximile of the page 103 that somebody said is a false quote. Now I will wait for instructions. With whom should I please discuss something before I revert that far back? I will discuss if that is what is needed. Barefact 05:28, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
Oh, that was you? You weren't logged in. For starters, you should probably use an edit summary next time. What I would do is add back information individually (not all in one big revert) that you don't think is controversial each in separate edits. The stuff that people may dispute should be brought up in a comment on a talk page. You should discuss on the talk page a way to phrase it so the Iranian editors don't disagree with you. Did that help? —Khoikhoi 05:31, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
Sorry to be giving you all these troubles, I observe that you are quite involved becides this subject that teaches me how the Wikipedia works. I made a number of pleas with "Iranian editors" (ethnic Iranians or pilitical Iranians? I had no clue that Wikipedia can be ethnic), but no constructive response so far. They just want to remove the subject from public view.
Barefact 20:44, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
No worries. I believe that they're ethnic Iranians, although "Iranian" isn't a single ethnicity. As you know it's a group of peoples or a nationality. Have you talked to Ali about the issue? I've found him to be quite reasonable. He's the one that said here that he would support renaming the article. Just leave a message on his talk page and see what happens (let me know if it works out). —Khoikhoi 01:20, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Scythia

But before adding topics they need to first be discussed. I learned that the hard way a couple weeks ago. I added information into an article before a consensus was made, got into a revert war, and eventually got blocked for 24h. I know how Wiki works from experience, and the way your doing it is not the right way. Discuss first, come to a consensus, then move on from there.Khosrow II 17:18, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Let us not get into rv war, stop using proxies, leave contents on, put a disputed tag, and we will discuss. I already spelled out the refute to the objections, accomodated the claim that Acathyrsi are not Scythians, explained the references. I will do it again, if needed,
But do not vandalize the contents in between. You will be reported, especially when your only contribution to the subject is a blanket vandalism.

Barefact 17:25, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Khosrow is totally correct. If you have reliable information you must bring all the sources.. You can't just claim Herodotus said this without bringing the actual quotes. Also I do not disagree with russian material, but still they need to be verified by Western Sources that are readily available. The reason is that we can't bring unverified sources like your previous article. And your reporting will not do anything really, since you had your other entery closed and have put up a good amount of non-factual information. From now on you need to bring actual quotes from the actual ancient sources in English else I believe I have the right to disagree due to your previous non-factual and wrong quotes. That is evidence must be presented before insertions are made. For example Herodotus differentiates between Agatharisi and Scythians (look at the quote I brought). So they were not Scythians. Greek myths about origins are not factual information to lead to interpolations into Safavid era. Also etymology is not an easy science and similar sounding words (although Aghajari does not sound even like Agatharisi) does not necessarily correspond to cognates. If you want to provce cognate, then you must do so using materials from top linguistics in the area and not popular folk etymology. --Ali doostzadeh 17:27, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
OK, this is better than vanton blanket deletions. Among the objections the main was that Herodotus differentiates between "Agatharisi" (i.e Agathyrsi, I presume) and Scythians. Your contention is that while Scythians are Scythians, and therefore Iranians, the Agathyrsi are not Scythians, and therefore can be Chinese or any other viable alternative. And that Greek's folk tale about Agathyrsi and Scythian brotherly kinship is irrelevant because Agathyrsi have commonality with Thracians. Did I expressed your objection right?
Does it also apply to Gelons, because Agathyrsi and Gelons taxonomically are on the same level in respect to Scythians, and Gelons also have some differences with Scythians? Does it apply to Amaxobies, Melanchlens etc, who even are not listed as Scythian brothers? Who else is excluded from the Scythian classification?
Barefact 19:12, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Barefact, the material they keep deleting consists of historiographic cites to Herodotus, Ptolemy, Ammianus, Servius & Priscus for primary sources, and consists only of their information about the Agathyrsi Scythians. It seems they are suppressing this valid, cited addition pretending it is OR when in reality they have political motives (They use their numbers to keep information from view, because that is what their message board does... It's a disturbing trend in the way wikipedia is starting to work...) They are blocking all your edits even when they are historical cites, because they do not like your website. The cites are valid, and I have just added them to the article Agathyrsi where they are more than appropriate. I'd like to see them try to call it Original Research over there. ፈቃደ (ውይይት) 18:30, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: No vandalism for past half hour

Not necessarily. Usually the vandal will stop after being warned enough times. :-) --ZsinjTalk 15:31, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Scytho-Iranian theory DRV

Hi,

You're misreading that a little. The DRV request closed before yours (LogMeIn) was improper. Your request was perfectly proper (procedurally speaking), it was simply denied -- that is, the comments formed a consensus to endorse the deletion. Best wishes, Xoloz 21:55, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WP:AIV procedure errors.

Please don't report users such as Khosrow II to WP:AIV when they haven't contravened the "Repeat [''sic''] removal of contents after multiple warnings, see Scythia, in tandem with Ali doostzadeh and Arash the Bowman". To do so is an abuse of procedure can can be considered an act of vandalism on your part. The other reports for WP:3RR violations were within procedure and the users have been warned.  (aeropagitica)   (talk)  23:08, 28 August 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Sketch from copyrighted article

Can I create my own sketch from a copyrighted material? For example, a scientific publication has a table and a graph, and I want to cite a part of a table or a section of a graph. The citation is not a mechanical reproduction, but a new tabulation or graph image that reflect the contents of the copyrighted article pertinent to the issue. Barefact 14:51, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

As I understand it (IANAL) there should be no problem with creating an entirely new table or graph representing information from a copyrighted document, as information itself is not subject to copyright (cf. Wikipedia:Copyrights). However, the creative expression of information is subject to copyright, so you would need to be careful not to infringe this; for example, the choice and order of columns and rows in a table, the range and axes of a graph, any line of best fit, etc., could all be subject to copyright if they were judged not to simply be choices which would be obvious to anyone working in the field. TSP 15:32, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Ordinarily, no. Copying copyrighted material, even if done by hand rather than mechanically, will usually infringe on the owner's copyright. However, in most cases, scientific data resides in the class of "factual material that has been discovered" rather than creative works or matters of opinion. Generally in the US, factual content cannot be copyrighted, though the selection, arrangement, or style of presentation might be (e.g. Feist v. Rural). Since your intention is to take part of the data (presumably copyright exempt) and create a new image from it, you probably have nothing to worry about. Dragons flight 15:41, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 3rr

 You have been temporarily blocked for violation of the three-revert rule. Please feel free to return after the block expires, but also please make an effort to discuss your changes further in the future.

abakharev 02:33, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] License tagging for Image:BC 339KingAteasScythiaAr.gif

Thanks for uploading Image:BC 339KingAteasScythiaAr.gif. Wikipedia gets thousands of images uploaded every day, and in order to verify that the images can be legally used on Wikipedia, the source and copyright status must be indicated. Images need to have an image tag applied to the image description page indicating the copyright status of the image. This uniform and easy-to-understand method of indicating the license status allows potential re-users of the images to know what they are allowed to do with the images.

For more information on using images, see the following pages:

This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. If you need help on selecting a tag to use, or in adding the tag to the image description, feel free to post a message at Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. 17:05, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mediation for Scythian-related articles

Admin Alex Bakharev agreed to mediate our dispute over Ossetian Language, Scythia, and other disputes, to prevent future resorting to editing wars. Mediation is a required step in the WP conflict resolution procedure. Please contact # Alex Bakharev (talk • contribs • blocks • protects • deletions • moves) The participants of the subjet editing wars were at least these parties:

  • Ali doostzadeh and/or 69.86.16.239
  • Khosrow II
  • Jpbrenna
  • Arash the Bowman
  • Marmoulak
  • Tajik

You may want to attract other your allies to this mediation effort

Barefact 20:37, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I am looking for help!

I am looking for help to resolve dispute and to end editing wars with a pack of Iranians who vandalize articles to enforce their racial theories. Thanks, Barefact 14:11, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Can you link the articles you're referencing, please? -- Merope Talk 14:24, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
Scythia or Scythians, Ossetian Language, Kurgans, Masguts (deleted by this Iranian group), Scytho-Iranian Theory (deleted by this Iranian group) Barefact 21:52, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
Follow the steps outlined at Wikipedia:Resolving disputes. --  Netsnipe  ►  18:00, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
This is what I am doing, following these steps and needing help to bring opponents to a non-militant resolution. Barefact 21:52, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

(to Barefact) Sorry to say this, but I'd really prefer to not get involved right now. Please give me some time, ok? Thanks. —Khoikhoi 02:48, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Warning

you should stop creating random articles with your original material. You will collaborate and honestly edit articles, adhering to WP:CITE and WP:NOR. If you have a point to make about the genome of the Ossetians, do so at Ossetians citing your sources. The way you are trying to sneak your idiosyncracies into Wikipedia is a waste of time for everybody. If you remain obstinate, I do not preclude you might be blocked from editing for disruption. dab (ᛏ) 17:49, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:OssetianGeneticsNasidze2004Fig2A.gif

Thanks for uploading Image:OssetianGeneticsNasidze2004Fig2A.gif. The image has been identified as not specifying the copyright status of the image, which is required by Wikipedia's policy on images. If you don't indicate the copyright status of the image on the image's description page, using an appropriate copyright tag, it may be deleted some time in the next seven days. If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided copyright information for them as well.

For more information on using images, see the following pages:

This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. 08:28, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image tagging

You have repeatedly tagged images uploaded by you as "GFDL" or "PD" even though they were not owned or created by you. I have warned you several times about this. Be careful to respect Wikipedia:Image use policy. If you do not understand "GFDL", ask for advice on WP:VP/P. In mis-tagging images you waste the time of people who have to clean up after you. dab (ᛏ) 16:16, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

As far as I know all images I uploaded were either created by me or personal material owned by me. If I mistagged an image I would appreciate your help to correct the tag. That will help to save the time of people who do the clean up. Thanks, Barefact 01:08, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
I did help with Image:OssetianGeneticsNasidze2004Fig2A.gif: You cannot take an image from a scientific paper, slap some colouring on it and claim you created it. You have to identify the paper it came from before it can even be useful, and you have to argue fair use. Regarding Image:BC 339KingAteasScythiaAr.gif, why don't you just tell us where you got this image, and which museum is keeping this coin (preferably with its inventory number). dab (ᛏ) 08:57, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
I always appreciate help, thank you, and somehow I did not know about your help with Image:OssetianGeneticsNasidze2004Fig2A.gif, so thank you again. For Nasidze article, I put the source right on the image, to make sure that the source can't be questioned or slandered.
About an image from a scientific paper, I first consulted with WP, and received the following encouraging answer: "in most cases, scientific data resides in the class of "factual material that has been discovered" rather than creative works or matters of opinion. Generally in the US, factual content cannot be copyrighted, though the selection, arrangement, or style of presentation might be (e.g. Feist v. Rural). Since your intention is to take part of the data (presumably copyright exempt) and create a new image from it, you probably have nothing to worry about. Dragons flight 15:41, 29 August 2006 (UTC)". I followed these guidelines, especially fortunate because ordinates are part of the factual content, and the original abbreviations were too criptic for WP illustration. I feel comfortable that the sketch is an image truthfully reflecting relative position of the studied groups, with a highlight to mirror the subject of Ossetian genetics. From the WP consultation, I can claim a "fair use". BTW, Nasidze is a secondary article, consolidating a lot of primary research material.
Regarding Image:BC 339KingAteasScythiaAr.gif, I think that publicizing my sources to the whole world is not fair neither to me nor to my sources.
I want to upload a picture of Fillipovka Kurgan, it is a magnificient picture for just completed excavations. For the first time in Russian archeological practice, the kurgan was not only destroyed, but also completely rebuilt. The article is clearly deficient on kurgan pictures. Any good advice how I can do it without running into another editing war? Barefact 21:37, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
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