Talk:Barbary Lion

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[edit] Extinct or not?

The texts says: "It is extinct in the wild and was believed to be extinct in captivity until stray individuals were located in circus populations within the last three decades." But as far as I know there are no proven (genetically) pure Barbary lions in captivity. Many zoos and private institutions claim to have Barbary Lion, due to their appearance. This is not evidence of the existance op this subspecies. The large mane, etc. is also caused by life in captivity. There is however a possibility, but most likely they are only descendents and cross-bred hybrids. If someone can present evidence of its pure existence in captivity, I would be very happy. Until now I haven't seen any! Pmaas 09:22, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

This is what I write on my website [1]: "Several people and institutions claim to have Barbary lions, and this lion subspecies is often seen as 'extinct in the wild'. There is much confusion between Barbary Lions and other long-maned captive lions. Lions in captivity today have been bred and cross-bred from lions captured in Africa long ago - with examples from all of these 'subspecies'. Mixed together, hybridised, most of today's captive lions have a 'soup' of genes from many different lions. Compound that with the many other variables that decide the extent of a lion's mane and you begin to see just how inappropriate the following statement is: "This lion has a long mane and so must be a Barbary". Until the DNA fingerprinting is produced, there is no definitive way to identify a lion as Barbary. The Extinction Website does not recognize the existence of a living specimen of the Barbary, and acknowledges that the subspecies is extinct." Pmaas 09:38, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Longleat Safari Park in England also claims to have a Barbary Lion -- I was just watching it on TV. The Wikipedia article on Longleat Safari Park also lists it. I just thought I'd mention it as you don't mention Longleat on your website. -- Peter Harriman

Thanks. Peter Maas 17:24, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Some people here keep changing "extinct" into "extinct in the wild"! Why? Please give a good reason. There is evidence that there is a Barbary lion in captivity. It can now be tested if lions are genetically barbary from the maternal (female) line! Until now only five specimens from the famous "Barbary" collection of the Moroccan King have been tested: result NOT maternally Barbary! Therefor it seem very dubious to keep on calling this subspecies "extinct in the wild", because there is no evidence it survives in captivity, until now. Please comment here if you disagree! Peter Maas 15:15, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Just so you know, it's not me! Peter Harriman 19:53, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I know who it is, but he or she does not respond/answers in the talk pages, sadly enough.Peter Maas 15:18, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Just to inform you all: I've recieved an email from Dr Nobuyuki Yamaguchi (Wildlife Conservation Research Unit Oxford University, Department of Zoology). He does a lot of research to the Barbary lion (he is the (co-)author of the most recent scientific articles on this subject). This is what he says: "Based on the best knowledge available at the moment, I would say they have become extinct at least in the wild. If one would carry out a worldwide survey on the genetic characteristics of captive lions, the answer may be changed. Also, the concept of conservation of lion genetic diversity may also change the concept of extinction in the future." Do you have a problem with changing it into: "The Barbary Lion, Atlas lion or Nubian lion Panthera leo leo is a subspecies of lion that has become extinct at least in the wild." Please respond this time on the talk pages. Peter Maas 15:18, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Size

There has been evidence that the Barbary was any bigger than a African Lion, yet it has a Barbary was approximitly the same size of a Bengal Tiger..... This Lion vs Tiger thing is going to far. The purpose of this site is to educate people on the choosen topic not to play child hood fantacy games. If yall are going to make such claims I think there should be a source at least.