Talk:Bao Dai
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Previous discussions moved to:
THIS ARTICLE HAS MANY NNPOV VIOLATIONS AND SIMPLE FACTUAL ERRORS
1) It has been disputed as to whether or not Bao Dai was actually Khai Dinh's son. Oscar Chapuis' book "The Last Emperors of Vietnam" says as much. I do not believe it because the two looked so much alike, but it should be noted.
2) It should be mentioned that Empress Nam Phuong did not enjoy her marriage and her husband's constant infidelities; in the Chapuis book he relates how she almost shot Bao Dai at one point. Also, Bao Dai did not convert to Catholicism to marry her -that is absurd. He was a Confucian Vietnamese Emperor when he married her and to become a Catholic would have been absolutely impossible for someone still claiming to be the "Son of Heaven". He converted to Catholicism decades later while in exile in France.
3)This statement is POV and makes no sense, "The Japanese promised not to interfere with the court at Hue but in 1945 forced Bao Dai to declare Vietnam's independence from France as a member of Japan's "Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere." The Japanese had a Vietnamese pretender, Prince Cuong De, waiting to take power in case Bao Dai refused." -By saying they had someone waiting to take his place if he chose NOT to collaborate proves that he DID have a choice -and he chose to cooperate with the Japanese.
4) This statement "Bao Dai still held great influence among political figures in the Quang Tri and Thua Thien Provinces and also in the city of Hue, the ancient capital of Vietnam. The Communist government of North Vietnam sent representatives to France hoping that Bao Dai would become a member of a coalition government to re-unite Vietnam, which would also attract his supporters in the regions where he has influence." -should have some sources provided to back it up -I seriously doubt Bao Dai had any considerable support after jumping ship so many times from France to Japan to Ho Chi Minh and back to France to keep his own position.
5) This is incomplete information: "While in the United States, Emperor Bao Dai gauged opinion among the exiled Vietnamese-American community, hoping to find a route towards national reconciliation." -it is POV because it does not go on to state the results of this effort; that he found no support and was treated rather harshly by many Vietnamese-Americans again because of his past history of selling them out so many times to save his own lifestyle.
This article, and many other modifications that have been done to Nguyen emperors pages is extremely biased. You will not find one serious, scholarly book or article that speaks about Bao Dai or most of his predecessors in anywhere close to such glowing terms. Like all dynasties in decline (much like the Qing in China) they were extremely unpopular and seen as corrupt, luxury-minded and subservient to foreign rule. Bao Dai in particular was thought of in this way since he grew up and was educated by Vietnam's rulers and tormentors, was known for all of his many mistresses and gambling, and while his people were starving and being taxed to death he was going on big hunting trips and building massive palaces in the south -and all based on French architecture just to add insult to injury. The pro-Nguyen revisionism agenda being pushed on Wikipedia needs to stop. NguyenHue 02:37, 7 September 2005 (UTC)NguyenHue
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[edit] Emperor Bao Dai info is neutral
-Emperor Bao Dai visit to the United States: Link: [[1]]
-"Bao Dai still held great influence among political figures in the Quang Tri and Thua Thien Provinces and also in the city of Hue, the ancient capital of Vietnam. The Communist government of North Vietnam sent representatives to France hoping that Bao Dai would become a member of a coalition government to re-unite Vietnam, which would also attract his supporters in the regions where he has influence."
The Quang 1205 Document: [[2]]
Bnguyen 23:21, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
[edit] try again
Yes, yes, you have posted this link over and over again, but it is not from a neutral source and says nothing about the overall success of the visit. Personally, I doubt Bao Dai would have been so naive to have the grand goals in mind that you claim, but that's another matter.
Further, saying what someone else said is not proof of anything. Can you present anything to validate that second document? Can you show any documented evidence of the Emperor's supposed popularity in this one province?
NguyenHue 05:42, 19 September 2005 (UTC)NguyenHue
[edit] Completely unbalanced article, no discussion of collaboration
I'm interested in the fact that this article, which amounts to a hagiography, has no discussion of collaboration between Bao Dai and the Japanese, or with the French, and the deep resentment and problems this caused for many Vietnamese in the civil war, and in the resistance during the colonial/Japanese period.
[edit] What does this quote mean?
"I do not wish a foreign army to spill the blood of my people." - Emperor Bảo Đại when informed that the Allies had placed the Japanese garrison at his disposal to defend the Imperial City from the Việt Minh.
This needs more elaboration. The Allies were at war with the Japanese, how could they put a Japanese garrison at the disposal of Bảo Đại? If this happened after WWII, how did the Japanese have a garrison in a foreign country, and who, exactly, were the Allies at that point?
