Talk:Baltic States/Baltic countries

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1 very quickly growing market economies.
2 Merge Baltic countries and Baltic state
3 Baltic states
4 Finland
5 "the Jerusalem of the North"

very quickly growing market economies.

Do not write bullshit, but research the facts...

Merge Baltic countries and Baltic state

This page should be combined with the Baltic states page or vive versa. Same with the Spanish Wikipedia -- there are two redundant pages: Estados bálticos and Países bálticos.

I've added the merge notices to both pages. Since I recently merged Baltic Sea countries into Baltic countries, I will probably undertake the merge between Baltic countries and Baltic state in the next few days. --taestell 21:16, July 21, 2005 (UTC)

The other talk page should also be merged into this page. --Jūzeris ⇐ feedback appreciated 11:37, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

Baltic states

This article seems to be chiefly about the Baltic States, commonly understood as Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia. It should probably be listed directly under that, rather than this strang 'Baltic countries' idea which seems somewhat peculiar to Wikipedia. The actual Baltic States have a unity of recent history, in some parts such unity unfortunately enforced, that does not encompass any other country that might happen to touch the Baltic sea. (I did read the merge debate.) -- Blorg 23:28, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree with you - title of this article is confusing. Maybe this article should rather explain terms as it is done in sections "Baltic Sea countries and Balticum" and "Other Uses" or make a note on top of the page that one should see article "Council of the Baltic Sea States" if he/she is looking for Baltic Sea States -- Xil/talk 06:14, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Agree. "Baltic States" is by far the most common term in English for Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania, and ought to lead directly to the article on these countries, with a disambiguation on top. --Pēteris Cedriņš 06:45, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Please read archived talk:Baltic state as well. Also I searched with google for Baltic countries - it returned 1,190,000 results, Baltic states returned 5,130,000 -- Xil/talk 23:12, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Agree. heqs 13:23, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

I think the term 'Baltic states' is often viewed negatively, as it refers to the three SSRs under Soviet rule (or occupation, however one sees it). Baltic countries, while being more neutral, does however raise the question of why Sweden, Finland, Poland, Germany and Denmark are not so called. Iain 18:04, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Finland

Surprised these issues have not been clarified. See my edits. Historically Finland has been considered a Baltic state, though less often today. (Finland even has a famous symbolic statue in Helsinki "the Daughter of the Baltic.") Tnescious 11:06, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

I've never seen a source referring Finland as a Baltic State. --ML 12:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree with that. Finland is a "Baltic Sea" country, a Nordic country, but not one of the Baltic States. Referring to it as a Baltic State in Wikipedia would only cause confusion. Even the Germans and the Russians always kept the distinction between Baltikum and Baltika, on the one hand, and Finland and Scandinavia on the other.--Mack2 13:47, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

I never heard Finland included in "the Baltic states" although I don't say it's impossible. Generally during the Soviet era they were separate cases, Finland being an independent country and the Baltic republics being part and parcel of the USSR. This sentence seems to just be confusing:

Before the fall of the Soviet Union, the term "Baltic state" was used by some English speakers to hint that the four countries were under Soviet influence or occupation. In Finland the term "Finlandisation" was used to describe the heavy Soviet influence on her politics.

It almost seems to imply, similar to Ford's 1976 debate gaffe, that the Baltics were really independent but just like Finland were "influenced or dominated", but if that's the case, what were the declarations of independence about? --Dhartung | Talk 15:56, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Finland borders the Baltic Sea and of course the adjective "Baltic" applies to her in a similar sense as in e.g. "The Baltic island of Gotland is very beautiful" (compare: "The Pacific island of Hawaii is very beautiful"). However, the terms "Baltic State" and "Baltic Country" do not apply to Finland in any sense. Under the Russian Empire, Finland was not part of the Baltic Province but a separate entity called the Grand Duchy of Finland. Finland never was part of the Soviet Union so it could hardly have been one of its "Baltic States". This is the historical background to the terms "Baltic States" and "Baltic Countries" that we today use for the three, fortunately, sovereign states bordering the eastern Baltic Sea. If someone has other information, please correct me and provide sources. Clarifer 08:09, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

In between WWI and WWII it seems that the term Baltic States referred to all formerly Russian territories that broke free that were located by the Baltic Sea. This includes thus Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Poland. This definition is at least given in the 1939 abridged edition of the Estonian Encyclopedia. IIRC this was also how these countries were referred to in the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact addendum. Prior to WWI, the Baltic States referred to the German dominated provinces of Russia located in present day Estonia and Latvia which enjoyed their own special regime with some similarity but with not as extensive autonomy as the Grand-Duchy of Finland.

Ok. Seems that the terminology in Soviet Russia (later in Estonia as well?) was different to that in the west? Never heard of such an inter-war definition before. Clarifer 18:58, 19 October 2006 (UTC)