Talk:Başkale
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[edit] Large town or city?
Anyone know how Baskale would be classified? --Lisa 01:35, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Assyrians, Armenians, Nestorians...
Recently, Chaldean made these changes. Perhaps these are 100% accurate -- I don't know for sure and I don't understand the finer points of differences between ethnic identities in Turkey either. However, it appears most of the original information in this article was sourced from the 1911 Encyclopaedia (consistently considered a reputable resource, although it exhibits quite a different worldview than that of today since it's almost 100 years old). So, why were references to Armenians and Nestorian Christians changed to Assyrians? I just need to know this is not some Assyrian-Armenian edit war. Thank you — Donama 00:45, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
- I won't contest Chaldean's changing Nestorian to Assyrian, but I assume he was mistaken when he changed Armenian genocide to Assyrian genocide, so I reverted that last change. --Benne ['bɛnə] (talk) 01:00, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
- Well, first off, both genocides occurred after 1911, so the information must have been added by a user. It's pretty simple - Armenians were killed in the Armenian Genocide, Assyrians were killed in the Assyrian genocide. So I believe Chaldean made a mistake. —Khoikhoi 01:33, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
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- No I did not mistaken. The "history" paragraph was not taken from Brittanica..it was sourced (did anybody see the source? Did anybody even read the sentence before it? approximately 50 Gawarnai Assyrians by Muslims on 30 October 1914 at Başkale - Assyrians, not Armenians...so Assyrians died, so were going to call it Armenian genocide? No, Assyrian deaths belong under the subject of Assyrian genocide and Armenian dead belongs to Armenian genocide. As for Nestorian..that is another name for the kind of Christians Assyrians adhire. If anybody have any other questions, please let me know. Chaldean 03:15, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
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- Well, you can add additional information about other people dying if you like, but that sentence talks about Assyrians dying. If you like, you can add additional information about Armenians dying as well, and then comfrim that being part of the [Armenian genocide]]. Or you can be the Anti-Assyrian that you are and go at another edit war with me. Chaldean 13:50, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
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- Stop with the personal attacks and show me an un-biased source that backs up your claim. —Khoikhoi 17:20, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
- You really should start reading more carefully, check out the history of the page before you started editing, and check out the source. --Benne ['bɛnə] (talk) 20:05, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
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- Benne, your the one that needs to read. The sentence was COPIED and PASTED from the source I provided. Nowhere in the Armenian cited site is Baskale mentioned (at least I didn't see.) So; where going to get information from an Assyrian website about Gewargi Assyrians getting massacred and file it under the Armenian genocide. So, what is the Assyrian genocide page use for? When is it appropriate to mention Assyrian genocide? If, a sentence is stating Assyrians died, and that is not appropriate to link to the wider event of the Assyrian genocide, then when can we??? Chaldean 03:07, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
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- Exactly! That is what I am saying! Where is the word Assyrian or Baskale there? So, then why is this source used? Look at this page, in its first format - "Gawarnai Assyrian" - Are those Armenian people to you? Look at Benne's comments here - how can he say that with a straight face? Chaldean 04:27, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
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- This is starting to get confusing. If the source is about the deaths of Armenians in the area, then why would we change it to Assyrian when we don't have a neutral source for the latter?—Khoikhoi 04:31, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
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- I dint not change anything. Brittanica 1911 was the one that wrote One of many events in the string of tensions which led to World War I was a massacre of approximately 50 Gawarnai Assyrians by Muslims on 30 October 1914 at Başkale as it looks like, according to its first version of this page. Dont ask me how this is possible, but that is what it looks like now. Chaldean 04:35, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
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So then the only conclusion is that she got that from the Assyrian page. Ok then if you think its baised, then the sentence should be completly removed (which is what I did, but was rv'd and responded to as if I'm an extremist or something.) Chaldean 04:46, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
- We don't know where she got it from. I'll email her about it. —Khoikhoi 04:55, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
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- Well, I'm sorry, but I really think you should get yourself a pair of glasses. The first source provided talks about Armenians, and also about Syrians (a.k.a. Suryāye). Look for Bashkala, not Başkala.
- And the following sentence you wrote just does not make sense:
- Brittanica 1911 was the one that wrote One of many events in the string of tensions which led to World War I was a massacre of approximately 50 Gawarnai Assyrians by Muslims on 30 October 1914 at Başkale as it looks like, according to its first version of this page.
- How can a 1911 encyclopaedia write about an event that happened in 1914? --Benne ['bɛnə] (talk) 07:43, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
I thought it could have been maybe a late addition since it was a current event. I did not write that sentence about the Assyrians getting killed. I went back to the other link and by the way, when they say Syrians they mean Sureth speaking people, but dont think for a second they are Syriac Orthodox members...because there is no such thing in Hakkari and plus it explains in the beginning what they meant by Syrian Semitic Christian population, variously known as "Nestorians" (from their religion), "Syrians" (from their language) or "Chaldoeans" (from their race).
And so this is what is says about Baskale: The many hundreds (and perhaps some thousands) of Armenians and Syrians in the region of Bashkala have been massacred. So, in essince, both Armenians and Assyrians died in Baskale. So the sentence of One of many events in the string of tensions which led to World War I was a massacre of approximately 50 Gawarnai Assyrians by Muslims on 30 October 1914 at Başkale should not be dismissed. So then, what are we going to do now. I think we should have something like;
One of many events in the string of tensions which led to World War I was a massacre of approximately 50 Gawarnai Assyrians by Muslims on 30 October 1914 at Başkale, as part of the Assyrian genocide. Hundreds more of Armenians of Başkale were later deported and massacred by Turks and Kurds during the Armenian genocide. Chaldean 14:04, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
- Thanks for the email, User:Khoikhoi. Unfortunately I was a bit of a novice wikipedia editor when I started writing this article. I started it purely in response to a list of 1911 encyclopaedia articles that were not yet started in Wikipedia at the time. So I did get most of the information from the 1911 article, because this is a topic I knew nothing about -- and still know VERY little. I wasn't properly aware of the Wikipedia rules about verifiability and citing sources when I did this too and so I can only imagine I tried to add more up to date information to the article by googling on baskale and bashkala. Considering there's no verifiable source for what I wrote - or if there was I don't remember it - I suggest what I originally wrote be discounted and deleted. And hopefully User:Chaldean and User:Benne can collaborate to rewrite a history section from scratch since they know about this topic. Lisa 01:50, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
