Talk:Avrohom Yitzchok Ulman
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[edit] Notability
Please do not remove tags until the changes have been made... they are not intended as an insult, they are there to help your article expand and get better... the article claims he is famous, prove it... - Adolphus79 10:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- This is one of the most famous rabbis in the world. There are plenty of other articles about similar rabbis which also start like this, take weeks to develop and ultimately turn into great articles. There is even a special project for these articles. Moreover, and with all due respect, you are - as far as I can see from your user page - not Jewish and thus not familiar with who this person is. You probably searched for his name on Google and got only a few results. The reason: there are four different ways of spelling his name in English alone, and two in Hebrew and Yiddish. It is very difficult to gather all information about a person like this, since such information is usually not publicly available. There are no biographies of such people around, anywhere. This is the first ever biography ever written of him, probably. Thus, gathering all of the relevant information for an article like this will take a LONG, LONG time, like all articles about great rabbis. Immediately placing a 'notability' tag (which may lead to a request for deletion) prevents the article from growing in any way, since other users will feel prevented from writing in the article. --Daniel575 10:33, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- Please do not keep adding that tag. With that tag, the article will never be able to grow. The number of Wikipedians who are capable of writing anything in this article number no more than a handful. Your tag will cause people to refrain from writing in it because they will think 'it will be deleted anyway'. And read what I just wrote. See also for example the Rabbi Nissim Karelitz article. --Daniel575 10:35, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- fine, I'm not willing to argue with you, or break the 3RR rule... you are right, I am not Jewish, nor had ever heard of this person... but if you are going to say someone is famous, you need to prove it, cite a few sources to backup what you've written... I have removed the word 'famous' now, and added the unreferenced tag... if you are going to remove a tag from an article, please make sure to take care of whatever that tag is there for... prove this person's notability, and I promise I will leave your article alone... - Adolphus79 10:46, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- Fine. He is famous. He is one of the five members of the highest council of ultra-Orthodox rabbis in the world, which makes him very famous. Now of course not everyone knows him. Hey, I happen to know who Pat Robertson is, but other Jews don't -- so what? Not everybody needs to know everyone about whom an article exists on Wikipedia. There is a huge subsection about Jewish things growing here. Further, I will also remove this tag, for a simple reason: everything I wrote here is first-hand information, since he lives right opposite me and is the rabbi of my synagogue; I speak to him shortly every week at least. I'm the best source you have. So there is a source/reference - me. There are no books or anything about him, so that tag could remain there for all eternity if nobody would remove it. Everything currently written is first-hand information. --Daniel575 10:52, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- did you even bother reading the notability tag? also, if this is all first hand knowledge, and not published anywhere, it qualifies as original research... that's 2 of the big 3 wikipedia policies broken there... try reading WP:NOR and WP:V... I'm not trying to fight with you, just trying to give a little advice... have fun, and happy editing... - Adolphus79 10:59, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- WP:NOR#Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view is useful. The problem is that there are basically no 'verifiable' sources about this person. Sure I can find something in ultra-Orthodox Hebrew or Yiddish newspaper archives. But to call that a reliable verifiable source... In any case, this article is just a stub, it will have to grow further and that will take a lot of time. But thanks for trying to help! --Daniel575 15:58, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- did you even bother reading the notability tag? also, if this is all first hand knowledge, and not published anywhere, it qualifies as original research... that's 2 of the big 3 wikipedia policies broken there... try reading WP:NOR and WP:V... I'm not trying to fight with you, just trying to give a little advice... have fun, and happy editing... - Adolphus79 10:59, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- Fine. He is famous. He is one of the five members of the highest council of ultra-Orthodox rabbis in the world, which makes him very famous. Now of course not everyone knows him. Hey, I happen to know who Pat Robertson is, but other Jews don't -- so what? Not everybody needs to know everyone about whom an article exists on Wikipedia. There is a huge subsection about Jewish things growing here. Further, I will also remove this tag, for a simple reason: everything I wrote here is first-hand information, since he lives right opposite me and is the rabbi of my synagogue; I speak to him shortly every week at least. I'm the best source you have. So there is a source/reference - me. There are no books or anything about him, so that tag could remain there for all eternity if nobody would remove it. Everything currently written is first-hand information. --Daniel575 10:52, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
- fine, I'm not willing to argue with you, or break the 3RR rule... you are right, I am not Jewish, nor had ever heard of this person... but if you are going to say someone is famous, you need to prove it, cite a few sources to backup what you've written... I have removed the word 'famous' now, and added the unreferenced tag... if you are going to remove a tag from an article, please make sure to take care of whatever that tag is there for... prove this person's notability, and I promise I will leave your article alone... - Adolphus79 10:46, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Extreme
The Edah most definitely is extreme. As I noted in a previous edit summary: Belz, Ger, Slonim, Vizhnitz, for example, are not members of the Edah, because the Edah is simply too extreme for their likings. Too extreme in its anti-Zionism, too extreme in it's isolationism. Other examples are Rachmastrivka, Spinka, and several others. The Edah is most definitely extreme. It represents the most extreme factions of both the Chassidishe (Satmar, Dushinsky, TA/TAY) and Litvishe (Brisk) worlds. Calling the Edah the representative of 'the Haredi communities of Jerusalem' is simply untrue. As I mentioned before, it does not represent Ger and Belz, which are the biggest kreizen of Jerusalem, as far as I know - both are quite a bit bigger than Satmar, Dushinsky, and TA/TAY. I am not speaking from a subjective POV here. The rav about whom this article is, is my own rav. I learn with him every shabbos and speak to him several times a week. I myself consider myself to be -on the way to become- a proud member of the 'most extreme' factions of the chassidishe velt. Thus, my intention here is most definitely not Edah-bashing. It is simply displaying the truth. The Edah does not represent all of Chareidi Jerusalem, unfortunately. I wish it did and I very much hope that Ger and Belz will rejoin the war against the minnim and apikorsim, the tzioinim. Kain yehi rutzoin, umain. ;) --Daniel575 05:53, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
- If you're saying he's extreme based on the fact that he's your rov, then its probably POV. Saying that they're the most extreme is definitely POV: You can't measure extremity. I tend to think that the lunatics in Iran giving aid and comfort to terrorist regimes in the name of Torah are more extreme than your Edah. My opinion. We can differ on this matter. But that makes it POV. I will change the language to something that is less POV and takes into consideration your issues. --Meshulam 13:20, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
