Talk:Austrian Empire

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Contents 1 a little addition to first section 2 Merging 3 pseudo-equal 4 categories 5 expanding the article 6 Requested move 7 Italy 8 Infobox

[edit] a little addition to first section

just added a new paragraph because things are a little sparse on actual socio-geographic information in the article. I think its pretty much neccessary. VonZeppelin 22:47, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merging

. — OwenBlacker 12:21, Jun 16, 2004 (UTC)

The article certainly needs to be extended, but the Austrian Empire and Austria-Hungary were not the same. They are different with respect to the period in which they existed (Austrian Empire 1804-1867, Austria-Hungary 1867-1918), their constitution and, obviously, with respect to their official names. Gugganij 16:01, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Fair enough; thanks for correcting me.  :o) — OwenBlacker 16:55, Jun 16, 2004 (UTC)

While we're at it, Emperor of Austria could probably be merged in here... --Shallot 11:08, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Well, I am not that sure. The Austrian Empire was transformed into the Austrian-Hungarian Empire in 1867. Thus, the Austrian Emperors remained their title and acted as sovereign in the Austrian part of the danube monarchy (which was officially known as The Kingdoms and Lands Represented in the Imperial Council and not as Austrian Empire anymore). The expression Austrian Empire officially ceased to exist. In my point of view Emperor of Austria and Austrian Empire do overlap to a certain degree with respect to time, but by far not completely. Therefore, I am against merging. Gugganij 13:43, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)

We can explain that reasonably trivial difference in a single article, though. --Shallot 23:05, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I am removeing the merge notice from this talk page. Merge notices usually go on an article. --Banana04131 04:36, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

---

Initially it was the Austrian Empire but with apparent success that Austrian Empire later became something much larger and thus its name changed to the Austro-Hungarian Empire. In fact (as Gordon Brook-Shepherd documents in his Book "The Austrians"), at one point the Austrian Emperor was received as "The Emperor of Europe" by the British royal court. Hopefully these two distinct naming conventions can be harmoniously merged to grant the reader a good perspective on the Historical significance, and development of Central Europe over those centuries which perhaps has an even more significant impact today.
Austrosearch 06:23, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] pseudo-equal

What does the author exactely mean with "pseudo-equal"? Gugganij 22:59, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[edit] categories

For Joy: I agree that this article should be in categories of all countries, which were part of Austrian Empire. I just do not have time to put all categories here. At this moment I look for articles, which are relevant for categories: Vojvodina, Serbia and Serbian history. So, Joy, please, put categories of other countries into this article and I will put only those two again, because I do not have time to put all. Also, if you see that I put these categories into some other articles, please do the same thing: put there other categories of other countries instead of deleting those. User:PANONIAN

Like I said, if you fill it up so that it's consistent, that's fine too. It merely looks weird if you just put it into Serbian categories, which are true but nevertheless fairly tangential compared to the whole lot. --Joy [shallot] 23:45, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] expanding the article

--Gerard von Hebel 20:06, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

The article needs expanding. Can I make a suggestion? Let me know what you think!

Before 1804 the Habsburg dominions, consisting of the Archduchy of Austria (in which were included the former Polish territories gained in the late 18th century, The Kingdom of Bohemia (in administrative union with Austria) and the Kingdom of Hungary were partly inside and partly outside of the Holy Roman Empire. Hungary was outside, as were those parts of Austria that had been recently ceded after the Polish divisions and the region around Venice, which Napoleon had "lent" to Austria. Austria proper and the Kingdom of Bohemia were part of the Holy Roman Empire. The Archduke of Austria, Francis I, also King and Elector of Bohemia and King of Hungary, was Holy Roman Emperor under the style Francis II.

When Napoleon, First Consul of the French Republic, a country that had already annexed the Rhineland and the Austrian Netherlands, and instigated a territorial reform of the Empire's constituent states, declared himself Emperor of the French and King of Italy in 1804, Emperor Francis II foresaw the end of the ancient and by now dysfunctional Holy Roman Empire. In order to secure the Imperial status for him and his dynasty he merged his lands of Austria, Bohemia and Hungary into a new state, that was initially called The Emperordom of Austria (Kaiserthum Österreich), rather then Empire of Austria (Kaiserreich Österreich), taking into account that the Holy Roman Empire was still in existence, and that large parts of the new "Kaiserthum" were still part of its territory. Emperor Francis II of the Holy Roman Empire thus became also Emperor Francis I of Austria, and scholars of state law were confronted with the bizarre reality of two overlapping Empires, sharing large parts of their territories as well as their Emperor. The Emperor retained the titular styles King of Hungary and Bohemia, but they were not pertaining to sovereign or suzerain states anymore. The new state that emerged was a multiethnic state "Vielvölkerstaat" in which the dominant Germans were outnumbered by other peoples, notably Hungarians, Czechs, Poles, Slovaks, Slovenes, Croatians, Roumanians, Italians, Serbs, Ruthenians and Ukrainians, thus compromising the German character of the state. The curious spectacle of the Siamese Twin Empires ended two years later, when several Princes of Holy Roman Empire states, seceded from the Empire at the instigation of Napoleon, and founded the Confederation of the Rhine. The Emperor Francis II / I abdicated as Holy Roman Emperor and dissolved the Old Empire, emerging of course as the Emperor Francis I of Austria.

After the fall of Napoleon, at the Congress of Vienna, a loose German Confederation was founded, in which Austria proper and Bohemia were included, but the former Hungarian and Polish territories were not. Austria regained also much of the former Habsburg possessions in Northern Italy, and the former Republic of Venice. These territories were not included in the German confederation, and were merged into an autonomous Lombardovenetian Kingdom, that was part of the Empire of Austria. Francis of course became its King. In 1835 Francis I died, and he was succeeded by his weak and sickly son Ferdinand I.

In the revolution year of 1848 the Empire almost disintegrated. A short lived German Empire was proclaimed with Francis' brother Archduke John, as Regent of the Realm "Reichsverweser".. The problem for the German nationalists was that Austria included vast non-German territories. This lead to the following dilemma. Including Austria in a German state, would cause huge problems with the national minorities, making the formation of a German national state very difficult. Carving up Austria was no option for the Habsburgs at that point. In the end a “small German” solution was proposed, leaving Austria, with its vast non-German territories outside of the proposed new German Empire. Also in that year the Hungarians rose and founded a short lived Republic. The Russians helped to suppress the Hungarian rising, and the revolution generally failed. Ferdinand I abdicated and was replaced by a grandson of Francis, Emperor Francis-Joseph I (1848-1916) After the Crimean war, in which France (now under Emperor Napoleon III) and the Kingdom of Sardinia-Piedmont had sided with Britain against Russia, it was payback time towards Sardinia-Piedmont, a state that aspired for Italian unification. Napoleon III and Sardinia-Piedmont fought Austria and Sardinia gained Lombardy from Austria. Other Italian states ruled by Habsburg and Bourbon secondogenitures also fell and in 1861 the Kingdom of Italy was proclaimed.

After the German-Danish war of 1863 concerning the Schlesvig-Holstein question, Austria was left in charge of Holstein, while its rival Prussia occupied Schlesvig. Conflict over the future of these territories soon arose amidst the underlying conflict between the two countries over ascendancy in Germany. The Austro-Prussian war that ensued in 1866 ended in defeat for Austria and many of its traditional allies in Central and Northern Germany. Prussia annexed Schlesvig-Holstein and most of Austria's allies in Germany. The German Confederation was abolished, and Italy used the opportunity to annex Venice. The weakened Empire was now forced to seek a compromise with its most troublesome national minority, the Hungarians.

So in 1867 the Kingdom of Hungary was re-erected in a personal and political union with the Empire of Austria, in which the Empire (now reduced in size) and the Kingdom were equal partners. I must stress that the Empire of Austria continued to exist, albeit reduced in territory. It did not go up into a “new” Empire of Austria-Hungary. There never was such a thing. A re-erected Kingdom of Hungary was carved out of former Austrian territory, and formed the before mentioned union with it, in which the Emperor of Austria was always the same person as the King of Hungary. This construction was generally referred to as the Dual Monarchy. I will however henceforth refer to it as Austria-Hungary. This solution emancipated the Hungarians, but did nothing about the aspirations of the many Slav peoples within both Realms that were now looking towards Russia that supported the Pan-Slav movement that sought the national liberation of Slav peoples in Austria-Hungary and the Balkans.

It also did not reinforce the German character and outlook of the remainder of the Empire, as Prussia’s retreat from Polish territory and her gains in Western Germany had done for that country. Large parts of the remaining Empire were still inhabited by Czechs, Poles, Ukrainians and Slovenes, Croats and Serbs. Forces that strove for German unification now looked towards Prussia, and with it favoured a “small-German” solution, leaving Austria outside of a future German state, as had already been the case in 1848. A North German Confederation was formed under Prussian leadership. After the Franco-Prussian war of 1870-1871, this Confederation was joined by Bavaria, Baden, Württemberg and those parts of Hesse-Rhine, that were previously outside of the Confederation, to form the German Realm, of which the King of Prussia became German Emperor, thus formalizing the small-German solution and leaving Austria outside of the new German nation.

Austria-Hungary now gave up its interests in Germany and looked towards the Balkans and the derelict Ottoman Empire and its newly formed tributary states, for a new sphere of influence, invoking the rivalry of the Russians who supported the rising Pan-Slav movement. When a crisis over Turkey threatened in 1878, Germany’s Chancellor Bismarck invited the powers to a Congress in Berlin. The result was the formal independence of the Ottoman vassal states of Roumania, Serbia and Montenegro, and the Austrian occupation of the Ottoman provinces of Bosnia and Herzegovina. Austria-Hungary now joined Germany and Italy in a tri-partite alliance that was mainly directed at the Franco-Russian alliance. In 1908 Austria formally annexed most parts of Bosnia (leaving the Sanjak of Novibazar to the Ottomans) and Herzegovina. It remained aloof during the two Balkan wars of 1911 and 1912. Austria-Hungary had however earned the wrath of Serbia that had schemes on Bosnia-Herzegovina, with its large Serbian population, and of their Russian ally.

When Archduke Francis-Ferdinand, the heir to the Austrian and Hungarian thrones, a great-nephew of the Emperor, visited the Bosnian capital of Sarajevo with his morganatic wife, the Duchess of Hohenberg in 1914, both of them were killed by Serbian nationalists. Austria-Hungary accused the Serb government of involvement in the murders. It soon made demands upon Serbia that a sovereign state could not accept. It demanded that Serbia would allow Austro-Hungarian policing of the murders on Serbian territory. Serbia refused, and Austria-Hungary declared war on Serbia, invoking the systems of alliances in Europe to go to war with one another. Russia declared war on Austria-Hungary, in assistance of its Serbian ally. Germany mobilized in assistance of Austria-Hungary, thus provoking a war with Russia. France came to the help of Russia, and when the Germans invaded Belgium, Britain joined the war. The Central powers (Germany, Austria-Hungary, the Ottoman Empire and Bulgaria) lost World War I. And the Emperor Charles I, a great-great nephew of the Emperor Francis-Joseph I, who had succeeded him after his death in 1916, abdicated in 1918. A Republic was declared in an Austria greatly reduced in size, making and end to the Empire of Austria.

Concerning The term Emperordom or "Kaiserthum" was soon replaced by Empire or "Kaiserreich".: As far as I know "Kaiserthum" (or "Kaisertum" in current German) was never replaced by "Kaiserreich" (Empire). Gugganij 21:20, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Gugganij, you are right. I have deleted the sentence. I have found references to "Kaiserthum" as it was spelled then from the 1890's even. --Gerard von Hebel 05:39, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

The Kingdom of Hungary was not incorporated into the Empire till 1849. Before the revolution of 1848 Hungary was a separate kingdom with her own constitution, public administration etc. Bye, Laszlo

The Empire was defined by its initial (pre 1848) constitution as the "Im Reichsrat vertretene Königreicher und Länder" or Kingdoms and Countries represented in the Realms Council. That included Hungary, even if it had an autonomous status. The Constitution of 1848 however did not mention Hungary. This was probably done to make the participation of Austria in a new German Realm easier (this was the year of the Revolutions and the Frankfurt German Parliament). Also there was a Hungarian uprising going on. The 1849 constitution mentioned Hungary again, this time as part of the "Kaiserthum Österreich".Gerard von Hebel 20:53, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Italy

The status of Venice before 1815, and the Austrian possessions south of Lombardy, require more (some) discussion. I do not know enough to do this, and have other things to research, but put it on the list for expansion. Septentrionalis 15:03, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Infobox

Shouldn't there be an infobox for the Austrian Empire? There's one for Austria-Hungary. I'm only asking for someone else to do it because I don't know how to make infoboxes. -Alex The Gonz 21:55, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I'll have one up soon - 52 Pickup 16:30, 30 October 2006 (UTC)