Talk:Australian Kelpie
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A Wikipedian removed Australian Kelpie from the good article list. There are suggestions below for improving areas to satisfy the good article criteria. Once the objections are addressed, renominate the article as a good article. If you disagree with the objections, you can seek a review.
Removal date: 12 November 2006 |
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Article Grading: I see that this article has been rated as "Start-Class". The next level above a "Stub". I see the "Editor's Experience" heading on the "Article progress grading scheme" in Wikipedia:WikiProject Australia/Assessment#Quality scale has this description of such an article:
Ummmmmm. . . It's not that I'm speechless, it's that I am by nature easy-going and reluctant to say bad things about people in a forum like Wiki. My Mum always said, if you don't have anything good to say, then say nothing. OK. "Nothing." I am nominating this article immediately for GA status, as it meets all of the quality criteria. Gordon | Talk, 11:13, 8 November 2006 (UTC) Delisted I have delisted this article after considering an experienced editor's comments and deciding that it requires further work -- though it is by no means a poverty-stricken stub as is implied by the Quality Scale Grading Scheme. Gordon | Talk, 14:01, 12 November 2006 (UTC) B-class This article needs work but the information is all there whats needed is an alteration to presentation and the inclusion of more references as such I've rated the article as B Gnangarra14:12, 12 November 2006 (UTC) |
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[edit] Capitalisation
I just changed Dingo to dingo. Can somebody explain why Dingo is consistently written with a capital D in the dingo article and why Kelpie is written with a capital letter in the title of this article, but not in the text. D.D. 20:03 25 Jul 2003 (UTC)
- This is a very old question, but as I started answering before I noticed that - I'll leave a reply for future browsers...The problem is a long running dispute about capitalisation on Wikipedia. Generally we use lower case, except for proper nouns. The question has always been - are common names of species properly capitalised or not. This argument has extended to breed names in the dog section. In order to cool the dispute the compromise has been that both capitalised and non-capitalised are acceptable in these areas - but the redirects should always be set up from the alternative. In the dog breeds section, we decided that the convention should be that breed names are capitalised. But there are sometimes articles written with the opposite form, and we don't always catch all cases of this quickly. The Dingo is also a slightly different case in itself because it is usually regarded as a sub-species rather than a breed - and mammals usually are in the non-capitalised form. Last time I looked, the Dingo article was using "dingo" (IIRC) - looks like that's switched over again. I think all the "Kelpies" in this article are fixed now, and I've switched the "Dingo" back to the capitalised form -- sannse (talk) 11:36, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
[edit] Colours
The kelpie genrally doesnt have white tips. Thes dogs are exported all over the world for their woking abillity and versitiity. They will work cattle, sheep, goats and ducks. The work in all weather climates rangeing from freezing to forty degrees c. The colours that kelpies come in are
black and tan red and tan blue and tan faun and faun and tan cream
[edit] removing extra photos from article
don't really need gallery of photos that don't add much. Photos w/writing need to have writing cropped out. And removing names from captions Elf | Talk 21:52, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Gallery
 Kelpie with obedience dumbbell |
Chocolate brown Kelpie |
 Chocolate brown Kelpie |
 Chocolate brown Kelpie |
[edit] Name of article
I suggest that the whole article be renamed from "Australian Kelpie" to just "Kelpie". In brief, there are no other Kelpies -- so the name is unique. Most Australians who look for the article will first (as I did) look under "K", then wonder why such an important dog has no Wikipedia entry. Gordon | Talk, 17 April 2006 @05:37 UTC
[edit] Working vs Non-working
The Kelpie breed is currently split into "Working" and "Show". The "Show" Kelpie is bred for a limited range of colours and other conformations and usually wouldn't know what to do with a sheep. The "Working" Kelpie is bred for working ability, working ability and working ability, with colours and conformation a very unimportant consideration.
The term "Australian" is used as a general (and redundant) adjective for the breed name as noted above in "Name of Article". Gordon | Talk, 17 April 2006 @05:50 UTC
- I've just done a major rewrite covering this and the two following headings -- there has been no discussion or objection in the last week, so I interpreted silence as assent.Gordon | Talk, 23 April 2006 @12:33 UTC
[edit] History
It is important to understand that the ancestors of the Kelpie were simply (black) dogs, called Colleys or Collies. The word "collie" has the same root as "coal" and "collier (ship)". Today's Collie breeds were not formed until about 10 or 15 years after the Kelpie was established as a breed. Some of these Colleys were imported to Australia for stock work in the early 1800's, and were bred to other types of dogs (including the odd Dingo), but always with an eye to working sheep without direct supervision.
The first Border Collie was not seen in Australia until after Federation... Gordon | Talk, 17 April 2006 @06:15 UTC
[edit] Appearance
We don't have "Ranchers" in Australia, I've changed it to "stockmen" as this more accurately reflects the people who would use herding dogs generally, and Kelpies especially.
Ummm... No, Kelpies don't usually have double coats. They used to, but somehow they just changed.
The sizes and weights given here are a bit on the large side. 30Kg is very much in the German Shepherd class! Better numbers would be (Working Keplies!) 50cm at the withers for females, 55cm for males; weight would be between 14-21Kg. Gordon | Talk, 17 April 2006 @ 06:24 UTC
[edit] Red Clouds
The information for the Red Clouds is taken from personal correspondence with the Noonbarra Working Kelpie Stud. Is there a citation in Wiki allowing for "pers. comm."? Gordon | Talk, 29 April 2006 @12:25 UTC
[edit] A mongrel is not a breed.
The indecisiveness of the constituancy of this breed IMHO makes it not a breed. Cattle mongrels that have been bred from working dogs brought over hundreds of years ago are invalid unless we can say they come from a discernable heritage (see: breeding) and thus can label it's breed.
What's with all these 'Australian <insert real breed>' breeds of dogs around about anyway? Apparently, all these Australian <Breed> dogs are only known outside Australia? And oddly, none are recognised? Seriously, what's up with that? 211.30.71.59 16:25, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] GA on hold
I don't want to fail this, but this has three glaring issues that are jumping out at me.
- The prose needs to be cleaned up a bit. A quick third party review will solve this.
- The citations need to be consistent. I suggest a read of WP:CITE to fix this.
- Please note where you're referencing from. I'm pretty sure that a Geocities link isn't reliable enough, but perhaps you know where they're getting their information.
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- The Geocities link is the "quick & easy" popular website of the Noonbarra Stud, duplicating much of the information found on their business website, and with some additional material. Geocities sites do indeed have a poor reputation -- but all sites must be visited and evaluated prior to the condemnation. In this case, the site is authoritative and detailed. Gordon | Talk, 12:56, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure if this can realistically pass, but I think there's enough here to keep from failing it immediately. I'll be checking back. --badlydrawnjeff talk 17:12, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Copied from Gordon's Sandbox talk page
I've been through and played with various parts, please check that I haven't lost information or the more likely misrepresented some in the edit process. Other than that it looks good, that personal communication is better laid out, but I still think that at FA and GA it could cause a problem, maybe let it sit for a while and see if others do any changes before going down those tracks. Gnangarra 13:26, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] copy/edits
Thanks Gnangarra. "Lead": The Wiki article "considers livestock based on the middle view", which does not include poultry, which is specifically one area where Kelpies shine -- I would take your edit to "...and poultry". "Breed Standards": My personal opinion is that the final sentence ", but his options for competition in conformation shows might be limited depending on his ancestry and on the opinions of the various kennel clubs or breed clubs involved" should stand as it conveys information which may be needed by people intending to show their animals. Apart from those two, I'm happy. Gordon | Talk, 13:28, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
- no arguement from me with these, Gnangarra 12:52, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
