Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Zhen Ji

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Redirect to Zhen Luo. I'm not deleting the article before redirect because there might be something useful in the article history to merge; though I didn't find anything, someone else might. --Deathphoenix 13:41, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Zhen Ji

At the risk of looking like someone who didn't do his homework -- I wrote Zhen Luo after this article already existed, and they refer to the same person. Why I think this article should be deleted (rather than merged) is because it contains inaccurate information, being overly based on fiction rather than historical accounts; further, there is not a single historical account that I see that refers to her as Zhen Ji -- there were many other ways that she's referred to other than Zhen Luo, but there was none that used this particular title. It was also poorly linked from other articles (a major reason why I missed in the first place when I wrote the "competing" article). I would not be completely opposed to a merge, but I don't think there's much, if anything, to be saved from this article. --Nlu (talk) 16:48, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Strong Keep I did a google search and there is a lot of information on it. Perhaps a verify tag can be put on the article. I think that Zhen Lou Luo [not mispelled in the actual google search, just here] should be nominated for deletion or a redirect to this article because there are no relevant hits on it besides the existing wiki article--Adam ^(talk) 17:00, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

You misspelled Zhen Luo above; also, I think accuracy should count for something... As I stated, no historical source refers to her as Zhen Ji. The person definitely existed; the question is what is the proper way to refer to her. Since "Zhen Ji" wasn't her name, or her title, it's improper to refer to her as Zhen Ji. --Nlu (talk) 17:14, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

• Redirect to Zhen Luo. —simpatico ^hi 17:35, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
• Delete and create Redirect, per Nlu. -Rebelguys2 19:02, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
• Keep and add links to Zhen Luo article. What we have here is a case of overlap between 3 different content areas: Chinese history as it is actually happened, the fictionalizations in Romance of the Three Kingdoms, and the use of Three Kingdoms characters in videogames and other media. Users who are interested in the characters as derived from the books and featured in games and other media may have interests that diverge from those of historical scholars, so I believe separate articles with links to each other are highly appropriate. Move Dynasty Warriors material from Zhen Luo article to Zhen Ji article to differentiate between historical information and Romance of the Three Kingdoms novel and subsequent uses of the characters.Ben Kidwell 22:16, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
• Keep it. I agree with Ben. I think that the fact that the name Zhen Ji has reached greater masses in the youth parameters should say something about the matter in its own right. In fact, I did a little bit of research myself. The "Ji" behind the "Zhen" word actually siginifies "Empress". It does not mean that her name is "Zhen Ji" altogether, but undeniably, this is the name that most people know this character of the novel, Romance of the Three Kingdoms by. Wikipedia can record true facts of history, but in the process, why deny popular fiction? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 202.156.6.54 (talk • contribs).

  "Ji" (姬) does not signify "empress." It is one of the possible titles for an imperial consort who is not an empress -- but is thoroughly inaccurate in this case since she was never given that title. Later on, after her son Cao Rui became emperor, he did posthumously honor her as an empress -- but that's "Huanghou" (皇后), not Ji. She was, in fact, while alive, never actually given any title except as Cao Pi's original wife during his tenure as Cao Cao's heir -- and therefore was simply referred to as "Furen" (夫人, "lady"). Again, she's never referred in historical resources as "Zhen Ji." She's been referred to as "Zhen Fu" (甄宓, apparently an alternative name), "Zhen Furen" ("Lady Zhen"), and "Zhen Huanghou" (Empress Zhen, although that is a posthumous title since she was never empress while alive), but not Zhen Ji. --Nlu (talk) 18:25, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

• Redirect - usually when an historical person appears in fiction, we include that information in an "In fiction" section on their page. Since a fictional person is secondary to their real couterpart, and users who are interested in video game characters would do well to gain a little knowledge about the real world, it would be appropriate to redirect this article. Adam Bishop 17:15, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.