Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Wolfeboro Pioneers

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was consensus to keep. Johnleemk | Talk 11:33, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Wolfeboro Pioneers

nn Boy Scout organization. 79 Google hits. User:Zoe|(talk) 04:18, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

  • It's a legitimate organization. If there is any information that is believed to be incorrect or missing or any additional sources that need to be cited, please change it or contact me. Thank you.

    The Author, --Papist 04:30, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

    • I never said it wasn't legitimate or incorrect. I said it's nn = non-notable. User:Zoe|(talk) 04:32, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
    • If you want to convince Zoe and others, the first thing that you need to cite is coverage of this organization that is not sourced from the organization itself, i.e. not from the organization's web site, and not from a web site that simply parrots the organization's own blurb. Autobiographies, be they of people, companies, or organizations, are not reliable sources. Are there any third-party books written about this organization? Or third-party magazine feature articles? Or papers in reputable historical journals? Uncle G 07:42, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete: nn. --Worthawholebean 04:38, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Who cares if it's not notable. This organization has hundreds of members. This website is a place for all information as long as it's correct and not profane. The Pioneers work alongside major Honor Societies such as the Order of the Arrow and many hold dual membership. --Papist 04:43, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
    • Wikipedia cares if it's not notable. This is not a web hosting site, nor a PR firm, it's an encyclopedia. User:Zoe|(talk) 05:34, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
    • Papist, if you could provide some information on how this society is unique or distinctive from all the other minor Boy Scout organizations out there, you'd have a stronger case for keep. Delete as non-notable for now. Changed to Keep per claim to notability. -- Saikiri~ 05:39, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
    • Wikipedia is a place for content that is verifiable, not original research, and presented from a neutral point of view. It is not a place for "all information". Uncle G 07:42, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete User:Ejrrjs says What? 08:52, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete sighs I'd love to back up a newbie who is trying really hard, and offer words of encouragement to Papist. It is very crushing to have an article deleted. Come over to my talk page and have a chat about it, and I'll help you out. But at the same time, I am having to vote delete on this one. Remember that when someone deletes one of your articles it is not an attack on you. We know full well that you did your best in creating this article, and that you did it in good faith. We know full well that you would like to see this created and for it to exist in this encyclopaedia. However, you also know that it would not exist in Brittanica or any other encyclopaedia, and indeed nobody would legitimately use it in a research project. Hence it is being deleted. I am sorry that you are being attacked by people as a newbie. I know its hard. Zordrac (talk) Wishy Washy Darwikinian Eventualist 10:47, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

I appreciate Zordac's understanding. However, I do not understand why one of the few surviving minor Boy Scout organizations in the United States (one that has not been absorbed by the Oder of the Arrow) is coming under attack*. By presenting this article, I hoped to make readers aware of the great tradition that exists within Boy Scout camps across the nation. The Wolfeboro Pioneers is undoubtedly one of the largest of these minor organizations. Every summer, it inducts 90 scouts, which is a pretty good annual induction rate for a "minor organization". These scouts come not only from California, but from around the nation and world. In a way, the Wolfeboro Pioneers promotes Scouts from around the nation and the world to come together and express their common bond.

Yours In Scouting,

--Papist 16:53, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

    • Comment: That's an actual claim to notoriety, which could validate its inclusion. "One of the few surviving minor organizations". Now, if you can expand on that, then there may be cause for this article to be kept. For an article to remain, it must assertion a valid claim to notoriety. Zordrac (talk) Wishy Washy Darwikinian Eventualist 18:17, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Keep as per Papist's claim to notability. --YixilTesiphon Say hello 18:43, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

  • Conditional Keep - whilst I am not entirely convinced that the claims are either suitably notable or suitably verified, I am for the moment going to WP:AGF that they are true and suitably notable, but reserve the right to change my vote back to delete if not proven later. I will have another look at the page later to see if it is fixed up to stake these claims properly. Zordrac (talk) Wishy Washy Darwikinian Eventualist 19:52, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Conditional Keep, per Zordrac. RMG 21:08, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep and request further sources; these claims should be verifiable. Bring it back to AfD later if it turns out to be impossible to verify to Wikipedia's standards. Oh, and kudos to Papist for responding so well to this AfD; it's a refreshing change to see someone actually making reasoned counter-arguments and citing sources instead of bringing on the sockpuppets. ;) — Haeleth Talk 00:19, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
    • Hi Haeleth. Just my opinion on this is that new users are often directed to AFDs on articles that they created and have no idea what they've done wrong. Whilst sock puppeting obviously exists, I think that a good section of the people are genuine new people. I took it upon myself to write a welcome message to Papist and to explain why people are so hostile, and I think that it at least helped to make things a bit easier for him. I think that if we could all take the time to do this, rather than all of the immediate defensives of accusing of sock puppetry etc, then perhaps people would be more likely to respond in a nice manner as well? Just a thought. Zordrac (talk) Wishy Washy Darwikinian Eventualist 05:57, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep, on the grounds that (from what I see) it's apparently notable as one of the few independent scouting organizations not part of the Order of the Arrow; this fact should be better explained in the article so it doesn't give the appearance (as it has at present) of being merely one of numerous non-notable local scout groups that exist and probably don't deserve Wikipedia articles. *Dan T.* 15:17, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep and cleanup per DanT. Stifle 19:37, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Weak keep per *Dan T.* This is borderline, but the history tips me in its favor. -- DS1953 01:11, 7 December 2005 (UTC)


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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