Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Wills Outback

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete - Liberatore(T) 18:29, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wills Outback

Vanity. Describes a series of games played by "a total of 38 different players." No Google results except for the willsoutback site itself. FreplySpang (talk) 16:44, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

• Delete, no Ghits I can see, as per nom. The creator's passion serves him well, but I think we're going to have to let this one go. --Deville (Talk) 17:11, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

• Delete. Not notable, etc. (Note to Xezzite: don't take this personally. We are not criticizing you or your game. It's just that wikipedia is suppposed to be an encyclopedia, and as such it limits itself to things that are notable enough to be included. If you read through WP:NOT, I think you'll get an idea of what is and isn't allowed. In my judgement your game just isn't important enough to merit inclusion.) Bucketsofg 17:43, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

• Comment finally! thank you bucket for finally showing me somethnig ive been asking for. i will look through it, but i would like it if somehow people could consider it. i didnt think you had to be huge to be on wiki, i guess i was mislead by a friend. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Xezzite (talk • contribs).

ok i read it and like, i guess you have a point but my point is this line "This means that there is no practical limit to the number of topics we can cover other than verifiability and the other points presented on this page." if theres no limit why is mine worth deleting? does that make sense? i'm not trying to be mean anymore, im just asking, like in my eyes its i guess- whats the harm?i do think people will use it for outback, i dont think im promoting my site or myself, if thats it please tell me i will glady take the link and my name off of it. i really don't get why its a big deal that its deleted. its not like "oh let him have his fun" but more like why not? think of it like this- you go to best buy u get the stuff thats mainstream, and thats great. but isnt it a cool feeling going somewhere else that isnt necessarily as good of a store but you can find that rare bloodhound gang cd? i don't know, i guess to me if its not doing any harm then why kill it off? it might actually do good but i guess i have no proof of that so i'm not in a good arguing position.

can someone link me or keyword me to where it says i have to be more than just a local based game that's in the news or something equal to? once again, i'm not trying to be a smarty smarty, but i don't see it. i seriously don't see why not keep it since im not promoting myself- no where in it do i ask for sign ups or hits on my websites. Hits mean nothign to me, just signups and i like to talk in person for signups. so please if someone could hook me up with a link to where it says i have to be 'mainstream/well known' that would be wonderful. sorry for the drama drama, i just took it as an insult and i would really like to keep the article but if being small and local is against the wiki rules then i fold.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Xezzite (talk • contribs).

woot i think i found it for myself " Wikipedia is not a collection of unverifiable speculation. All articles about anticipated events must be verifiable, and the subject matter must be of sufficiently wide interest that it would merit an article if the event had already occurred. In particular:

Individual scheduled or expected future events should only be included if the event is notable and almost certain to take place. If preparation for the event isn't already in progress, speculation about it must be well documented. Examples of appropriate topics include 2008 U.S. presidential election, and 2012 Summer Olympics. By comparison, the 2028 U.S. presidential election and 2032 Summer Olympics are not considered appropriate article topics because nothing can be said about them that is verifiable and not original research. A schedule of future events may also be appropriate.

Similarly, individual items from a predetermined list or a systematic pattern of names, preassigned to future events or discoveries, are not suitable article topics, if only generic information is known about the item. Lists of tropical cyclone names is encyclopedic; "Tropical Storm Alex (2010)" is not, even though it is virtually certain that a storm of that name will occur in the North Atlantic and will turn counterclockwise. Similarly, articles about words formed on a predictable numeric system (such as "septenquinquagintillion") are not encyclopedic unless they are defined on good authority, or genuinely in use. Certain scientific extrapolations, such as chemical elements documented by IUPAC, prior to isolation in the laboratory, are usually considered encyclopedic.

Articles that present extrapolation, speculation, and "future history" are original research and therefore inappropriate. Of course, we do and should have articles about notable artistic works, essays, or credible research that embody predictions. An article on Star Trek is appropriate; an article on "Weapons to be used in World War III" is not.

For a wiki that does allow discussion of "future history", visit Wikicities Future.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Xezzite (talk • contribs).

It is appropriate to report discussion and arguments about the prospects for success of future proposals and projects or whether some development will occur, provided that discussion is properly referenced. It is not appropriate for an editor to insert their own opinions or analysis, because of Wikipedia's prohibition on original research. Forward-looking articles about unreleased products (e.g. movies, games, etc.) require special care to make sure that they are not advertising."—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Xezzite (talk • contribs).

my defense is- i'm talking about the future in one paragraph- the rest is history and i see nothign about 'notable history'—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Xezzite (talk • contribs).

• Delete as non-notable. --DMG413 18:18, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

quote where it says it has to be kthnx i will give you a cookie, hey, was wiki notable when it started? notable shmotable —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Xezzite (talk • contribs).

• Do Not Delete The article is not offensive, false, or misleading. The Deletion Policy expects the author to be givin good faith about the value of his article. Just because some feel that the information is unimportant does not that mean that it should be removed. Hypothetically, let us say I am a university student studying Communications, and am doing a report on cultural effects of Reality TV. This article could be very valuable to such research. You may want to suggest that the author could provide his unique prspective through other media, but what is Wikipedia for if not to illuminate and legitimize otherwise obscure facts and themes. This article does nothing to impede or erode the exchange of ideas on Wikipedia, rather it contributes what it can. Do delete it simply because it seems insignificant to a few web surfers contradicts the "freedom" upon which Wikipedia was based, and has thrived.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Theandy2k4 (talk • contribs).

• Delete I would like to point you to WP:NOT: for original research, for self-promotion and for advertising, and also to WP:V. —Cuiviénen, Saturday, 1 April 2006 @ 18:44 (UTC)
• Delete per WP:N, WP:NOR, WP:NFT, WP:VANITY, WP:V. --Kinu ^t/_c 18:48, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

• The article is not attempting to publish original research, nor is it trying to publicize any commercial or philanthropic endeavor. The vanity guideline is just that, a guideline which Wiki distinguishes from other official rules. It is not such an editorial rule, and should not be enough to warrant deletion.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Theandy2k4 (talk • contribs).

• Comment This article is not verifiable - we need to be able to look the subject up in some other published source. And by the way, Wikipedia is absolutely not here to "illuminate and legitimize otherwise obscure facts and themes." FreplySpang (talk) 19:32, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
• Comment. User:Theandy2k4 has only two edits, both on this page. If this is you, Xezzite, I encourage you to look at WP:SOCK. (BTW, admins are to discount votes by brand new users in these discussions.) Bucketsofg 20:04, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

sorry my names not andy stop accusing me of things

you know i can sit here and cry "WP:NOT!!" over and over but again i ask you- quote the specific part that applies to me- i have asked for hours an no one has delivered. I read the terms gentlemen, I see nothing.

i am sorry if this sounds sour but it seems that many of the mods against this article are simply abusing their authority. They think they can say things like "WP:V WP:NOT" and that i will cower down to that. But the thing is, i have read them, please scroll up and read what i have said before you make claims against me. Where in wp not does it say nothing that isn't mainstream? It clearly says nothing not notable about the future which could not even take place- mine is about past, present future, it says no irrelevant history such as - Jon Bon jovi spells his name John now.I am promoting my site? where in this does it say go to my site? should i not link the website that goes with the event? Should I not say who created it? I think knowing why it is called Wills Outback is somewhat important, but if you want the link and my name gone i can take it away. I don't need wikipedia to promote my game, I have done fine without it. I just want wikipedia to be useful. If everything on wiki is google-able then why have wiki? So that people can troll like the information is just a forum? Seriously, take the time and try to find the specific reason why this article should be deleted. I am not andy and i do not like being accused of that, i am trying to argue reasonable, which is more than everyone here can say. Why is that? You do not take the time to read what I have to say. I have heard you loud and clear- WP NOT. I have looked through all the violations and policies and I see nothing against a small, local event/union of people. How can this be a flaw when there are articles out there COMPLETELY wrong? And if your answer is "well who looks at the vampire counts article anyways?" my answer is, well me, and if its obsolute then why doesn't it get petitioned to be deleted? Just because I am from no large corporation or business why am I being bullied by wikistuds? Think about what you are doing, and if I see someone say WP NOT one more time im going to scream, QUOTE IT WITHIN THE WP NOT POLICY thank you, i have quoted what i have found I wish people would stop posting to post and actually look into what they are doing. Thank you

Another question, do moderators know what they are talking about or do they just know letters? Has anyone read WP:NOT? seriously, I am for the success of wikipedia as much as you are, I think wiki is a great idea that's why i'm fighting so hard to use it. But wiki isn't going to work if people don't take time to read the rules and when someone asks for the specifics you give them more general letters that mean squat unless you read them. I don't know why I am being accused of things or why I am being bullied around, I guess this is how you treat new users? I am asking for a clear definition of the policy that says Outback shouldn't be there. I've heard 'promotion' and according to the deletion petition it says we are supposed to work on getting the article into WP form, well, what can i change to make it not promotion? I mean for it to be informative, do you want my URL or name off? I will glady do that if it means keeping the article. Please stop accusing me of things and basically binding me to intentions that are not mine. Again, I recruit through talking in person, on the phone, via networking through friends. I don't need Wiki for that, please realize this. Yes, I have only had 38 people, but I have only had 4 games so far, it isn't like I'm using wiki to exploit it. I have my own website if I need to show people a link. It's just really frusterating because no one seems to listen to me- tell me specifically what in WP:not am i violating and if everyone agrees that I'm promoting then what can I do to fix it? It just seems like you guys don't care, you just want to say deleted because you do not understand the magnitude that is Outback. Maybe if I just wait someone who is not lazy will put the effort into getting the answers I long for. And if you think I'm asking too much, then why have wiki? Why have a website only a select few can add to? You guys are really missing the point.

Dear Kinu, Seriously, if you are a moderator of Wikipedia you are a horrible spokesman. You did nothing to contribute to this discussion but label me with things I am not. Made up in a school day? How about you fuck yourself, if this is what wikipedia is fuck you. Do you feel tough that you can type in a few letters? A school day, wow, I would love LOVE to see you try to make something half as good. I don't care, label me for cussing and 'hatred', fuckin ban me, if moderators are pieces of shit like this I don't care. If you want to verify wills outback i have a lot of sources you can talk to, not just chump moderators who do it for no pay, but people who are somebodies. But I mean, if that's how you want to be it's cool, I made this up at school one day and it's basically like a flag football game. No it didn't take hours and hours and hours to plan, more hours to set up and a shit ton of thinking and work on my part. I am just a young chump. Abuse your power kinu! I thought I could use this for what wikipedia said it was- to discuss what was wrong, not to say NO. But no one cares, no one wants to work things out. I guess that's why you are moderators, too lazy for a job that requires work and dedication so you click buttons and eat butterfingers all day. Well, I probably will be banned from wiki soon for this post, but I know I am going out with my head high and in the right. Bully me more, bully all the people who had dreams of creating something more than just a chump school game. This isn't senior pranks, a game of assassins, this is a game that requires more intelligence that any moderator could possess. I asked for reasons, you gave me letters....thanks. The letters were good at first but then I replied saying I wanted specifics and I just got more letters. Well it sucks guys, I really liked wikipedia, I will be using wiki a little for my next outback, but mostly the warcraft wiki (I don't even know if they are linked with this one  ?). But I won't be helping anymore, I know you don't care, but it's sad. Wiki should be about getting information on ANY little thing you want. I hope people don't trust too much in here, when I saw the mistakes on that article earlier today I actually laughed out loud for how wrong they were. Liches btw, are not the same as necromancers, they are actually in different armies and they actually hate each other. I tried to put some insight, information, and book power into an article incase someday some kid wants to read up on his favorite warhammer army. So Wiki, I leave you with this, and I hope you listen... You want me to verify it is all real Kinu? That it isn't a game we just made up at school? You want verification that it's not just a few guys and that it is known in, well, other countries? Well my question for you is...what do you verify? You google things to verify facts? I could make a website called napoleon101edu.org and say that napoleon was a homosexual who lost in waterloo against the duke of wellington because he was too busy giving oral to thomas jefferson. Is that verification? Would you even go as far to google it? Or just take a bite of your candy bar and say "never heard of it" DELETED? If this is what wikipedia is, well, I hope someday they get enough money to hire experts, I really do. I think this site could be EXCELLENT, but because of lazy bums who assume, label and stereotype me as a young hooligan trying to show off his website, this site will never be more than a forum. I'm sorry for any moderator who did care or tried, but seriously, it's a fucking website, I hope you feel good with the little power you have, I hope when you die you feel good that you could bully a young wikinoob around and not give him a specific reason why he is gone. So consider me a e-freedom fighter fighting for the rights of people to not have assraming dickless lazy pieces of shit moderators tell them what they should and shouldnt have access to. Oh and by the way, keep being experts on Napoleon Dynamite, it's not like everyone has already seen that movie. Keep promoting the movies you find so funny. Sorry for any true wikipedia mod who actually cares. I guess you can't really expect anyone to, it's too easy to say WP:NOT.

Butterfinger

Nobody better lay a finger on my Butterfinger. --Kinu ^t/_c 06:09, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per WP:NOT. Fishhead64 22:11, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
• It looks like an intersting project. However, Googling the title ["Wills Outback"] comes back with 27 unique hits, the majority of which focus on either the Burke and Wills expedition in the Australian outback, or a conference named after this expedition (When we talk about google verifcation, we're looking for reviews on major websites, online articles from news services, or anything that can point us in the direction of what Wikipedia considers to be a reliable source). Alexa has no data for the website this porject is run from. This combination shows that the project doesn not meet any of the three points at the Wikipedia:Notability (websites) inclusion guideline. For WP:NOT, I think you would be looking at "Wikipedia is not a publisher of original thought": point two on original inventions. When people refer to Wikipedia is not for things made up in school one day, they are referring to how a sizeable group of users interpret the guidelines listed on that page (To quote:"in a nutshell - Resist the temptation to write about the new, great thing you and/or your friends just thought up."). Items included in wikipedia should have reliable third-party sources to back them up, which I personally can't find. As the creator of the project, and the primary contributor to the article, it can be considered a vanity article, which wile not a crime in itself, is seriously discouraged, as it can very easily lead onto violation of several other policies and guidelines, and because this article is about a project, can be perceived as advertising (WP:NOT a soapbox, point 3 - although you are not a company, promoting your project is considered to be advertising for the purposes of the WP:NOT policy). If you can demonstrate a widespread impact on a larger than local community, through the use of reliable, third party sources, then I personally don't see why it can't b kept in some form, although at the moment, it doesn't look that way. -- Saberwyn 00:03, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
  • As for your point on small groups, Criteria for speedy deletion point A7. -- Saberwyn 00:12, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Hey this is Xezzite. Thank you Saberwyn, that is exactly what I have been asking for. Hopefully someday soon I will have what it takes to get on Wiki and get my little article going. I was under the impression that it would fly but obviously taking the time out and giving me the reasons I have been looking for. Any suggestions for what I can get for a third party? Someone hinted at newspaper articles or something of that nature, any ideas would be very much appreciated. I understand it may look like I'm just promoting my site so I guess I'll just have to go get some proof like you said. =D

• You'd be looking at news articles, reviews by magazines or major websites that deal with this type of project, publications. Pretty much anything that says "Hey, I'm not involved with Wills Outback, but I've studied it and here's what I can say about it. By the way, these are my credentials." The Wikipedia:Reliable sources guideline would be of more use to you on the type of material you need than I am on this matter. -- Saberwyn 00:22, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per above. --Khoikhoi 03:17, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
• Delete violates any number of criteria for insertion ⇒ SWATJester ^Ready Aim _Fire! 23:50, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.