Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Toowoomba Grammar School

This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record.
The result of the debate was keep. This debate has been extremely contentious, just like the other debates about other high schools. The result is split down the middle, with some vehemently arguing for deletion, and others vehemently arguing for inclusion. There has been a lot of commenting on people's votes, and there have been claims of vote stuffing. Since this article has been on VfD for a very long time now, I will close it. Deletion requires a consensus, and there does not appear to be one. Sjakkalle 07:17, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Toowoomba Grammar School

I live not all that far away from this school and know of it reasonably well. I do not think it has anything notable about it. Delete Lacrimosus 06:27, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

• • • GRider has made an attempt at vote-swinging for this nomination [1].
• Delete. BEEFSTEW score of either 0 or -6. Are grammar schools in Australia primary schools (like in the U.S.) or secondary schools (like in the U.K.)? —Korath (Talk) 06:33, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC)
  • In this case it's secondary. A "Grammar School" is usually a private secondary school, occasionally selective. Lacrimosus 06:37, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
• One sentence. Oy vey. Delete for reasons stated and for the fact that there isn't anything here to vote on beyond this one sentence. - Lucky 6.9 07:20, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
• Keep and expand. Necessary to the description of its local area. Kappa 07:40, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

  404 Logic not found. Chris 21:20, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

• Delete, this article doesn't tell anything marginally interesting that can't be expected from its title (which could possibly make it a speedy case). Mgm|^(talk) 10:19, Mar 23, 2005 (UTC)
• Make a mention in Toowoomba, Queensland and delete - Skysmith 11:31, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
• Merge with Toowoomba, Queensland, which should be really tough, since there's all of one sentence. --bainer 12:11, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
• Delete outright or merge (one sentence!) with Toowoomba, Queensland. If the article creator can't bother to come up with more than a sentence about this establishment, it bodes poorly for its notability. --TenOfAllTrades | Talk 16:05, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
• Keep No valid grounds for deletion. I've categorised it. Wincoote 18:31, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • No grounds for deletion, other than being a pointless substub with negative potential of becoming encyclopaedic, and most likely vanity too. Delete. Look at it this way - if we include an article on this school, we have to include an article on every other school in the world, to be fair. Schools are so numerous, that if we embarked on such a drive, we'd easily hit the 2 milliojn article mark, but it would be at the expense of improving coverage of other areas. Think about it - someone hits "random page" repeatedly and gets nothing but pointless school substub after pointless school substub; are they going to take WP seriously as an information source? If you think that WP is an encyclopaedia of some value to someone, especially in areas where buying a full set of Britannica might be out of the question, vote delete. If you think WP should turn into some kind of a joke, a parody encyclopaedia with nothing but worthless substubs about the world and his wife, keep voting keep on crap like this. Chris 21:20, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • So every time we include an article of a certain type, that obliges us to embark upon a drive to include every other article of that type? We have articles on American towns with a population of less than 100, is there a drive to include every of settlement in the world? Wikipedia should aim to become a valuable encyclopedia, rather devoting itself to impressing "random page" users. Kappa 05:07, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
      • Suit yourself, but ultimately it's the "random page" users that are best placed to gauge the overall value of WP, by not looking for specific fields. Chris 18:50, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
        • Random page users may be able to gauge the average value per page, but wikipedia's true value is what people can find when they are actually looking for it. Kappa 20:25, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
          • So, it's OK to keep this page because nobody will be looking for it, and therefore nobody will realise that it's useless? Chris 23:15, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
            • As a substub, it's not useful, but the topic has potential and the nomination is about the topic. Kappa 05:57, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)
              • Actually, I think you'll find it's about the article. Chris 15:56, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)
• Merge with Toowoomba, Queensland and redirect--nixie 22:12, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Non-notable school. I don't see how merging this to the Toowoomba article would improve that article. DaveTheRed 23:17, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
• Delete in agreement with DaveTheRed --Angr 08:11, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per Dave. Radiant_* 09:32, Mar 24, 2005 (UTC)
• Keep and expand. - SimonP 12:13, Mar 24, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. No potential to become encyclopedic. Jayjg ^(talk) 19:32, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per DaveTheRed. VladMV ٭ ^talk 21:31, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Nothing notable here. Gamaliel 21:07, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)
• Keep schools are notable, expand this.  ALKIVAR™ 21:24, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. Others have noted why. --Dittaeva 21:34, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. No reason as per the apparently entirely decorative Wikipedia:Deletion policy why this topic is deletable - David Gerard 22:06, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • To quote the deletion policy, valid reasons for deletion include "No potential to become encyclopedic" and "vanity", both of which this article fulfils. Chris 01:08, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)
• delete if all the author can find to say about the school is one sentence its not notable enough for an article in my book. Thryduulf 22:27, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)
• delete, not notable. --Carnildo 22:59, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Not even marginally interesting. --Calton | Talk 00:20, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. All public institutions belong in Wikipedia.--Gene_poole 02:21, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. I can't understand all you deletionists. Is it some sort of pathological obsession you have? If you don't want to read the article, don't read it. Let's have an article with at least the basic facts (where it is, when it was founded, what types of student and how many, etc) on every school in the known universe. Will Wikipedia be more useful or less useful if that happens? --Zero 02:29, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment: Less useful, unless we suddenly acquire an infinite number of editors. Having one sentence on a school whose information no-one is able to verify and update (except, maybe me, but in my opinion it's not notable anyway), while there's still zero sentences over at Culture of Azerbaijan destroys the credibility of Wikipedia, floods it with systemic bias, and buries more worthy topics in amidst a sea of trivia. Lacrimosus 04:35, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • Comment: Hah. WTF are you talking about?!? —RaD Man (talk) 08:27, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • Comment: These arguments would seem to apply more than equally to coverage of all human settlements, how do you feel about them? Kappa 12:23, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)
      • Human settlements cannot be signed into or out of existence by local authorities. Chris 12:40, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)
• Keep Contains interesting information - Wikipedia is not paper. --ShaunMacPherson 02:42, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Equally, Wikipedia is not toilet paper. Mandel 19:15, Mar 27, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Non notable school vanity. Jonathunder 04:38, 2005 Mar 26 (UTC)
• Keep and expand as per Kappa. —RaD Man (talk) 08:26, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)
• Delete as vanity. Strong concur with Lacrimosus. Radiant_* 09:00, Mar 26, 2005 (UTC)

Keep, WINP. (Sam Spade | talk | contributions) 09:32, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)

• Delete there is no encyclopedic content here, and it doesn't seem likely to develop at this stage. Entering schools for the sake of doing so is at best a folly of the devoted. Unless there is something of note about a school (being the alma mater of a Prime Minister) or the school makes a project of creating an encyclopedic entry) then I can't see the point of enumerating stubs. An An 11:16, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)
• Keep and improve. If the existence of the school is not disputed, then there is no reason that this is not a valid article topic. Notability is subjective, but schools with more than a few students should automatically pass the test. Wiki is not paper. Someone please wake me up when there is finally a policy vote about keeping school articles. ~leif ☺ _HELO 20:32, Mar 26, 2005 (UTC)
  • Perhaps we need a new page Wiki is not cheap. Chris 17:03, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • If so, we also need a Wiki's cost is not even remotely close to being proportional to wiki's size, but I digress. And En more than met it's fundraising goals. Wikipedia is not running out of money. --L33tminion | (talk) 03:35, Mar 28, 2005 (UTC)
• IF this page can be expanded, then DO SO. As it is, it's been on VFD for four days and is still 99% contentless. There has to be a minimum level of what counts as "noteable". We could do a list of "Schools in Queensland" in which this could be included. As it is, this is pointless. Wiki may not be paper, but Jimbo still has to pay for the server space. DS 15:26, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Well said. Mandel 19:15, Mar 27, 2005 (UTC)
• I vote for (drum-roll) delete. Mandel 19:15, Mar 27, 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. This pointless anti-schoool vendetta is becoming quite tiresome. All schools are public institutions, and all public institutions and facilities are notable by definition. That's right - all public institutions and facilities.--Centauri 06:44, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

• Delete: Another regular school Saopaulo1 06:59, Mar 28, 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. I'm getting to think the VfD process for schools uses more hard disk space and bandwidth than leaving them be. Samaritan 03:23, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)
• keep this and improve. Yuckfoo 01:59, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
• keep i agree that it isnt ideal to have a link for every school in the world, but the toowoomba grammar school is one of the original 'great state public schools' in australia. in the days when the australian government funded 'elite' schools around the country to compete with private schools. I dont have any proper data about the school available to me, but it would be great to see a proper history written for the school, or perhaps just lumped into a historical thread about the greater public school system of the late 19th century. Danubis
  • "Subject deserves and article" is neither here nor there, because these votes are about the article, not its subject. The subject may be deserving, but this article has now had 3 weeks on VfD, and it is still no better. Chris 23:34, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
• Keep - Wikipedia is not paper. — PhilHibbs | talk 15:38, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
• Keep - Wikipedia is not paper, and even if it were, we must protect our rainforests. brian0918™ 02:12, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Non-notable. Noisy | Talk 10:33, Apr 8, 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. Just another stub, as were all articles on Wikipedia once. Thank goodness we didn't delete all of them too... Dan100 20:33, Apr 9, 2005 (UTC)
• Delete non-notable, school vanity. --InShaneee 20:36, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)
• Keep. Schools are noteworthy. --Zantastik 07:01, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.