Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tonya And Nancy: The Opera

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Delete. --Luigi30 (Ταλκ το mε) 22:43, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tonya And Nancy: The Opera

nn play. Deprodded. It has 384 google hits, but none of the international media reports it purports to have. It started two days ago, a university production, and basically all the hits were from university noticeboards and random bloggers.ßlηguγΣη | Have your say!!! - review me 04:41, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete unless verifiable sources are provided for the "international media reports". Gwernol 04:51, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Changed vote to Keep, there are enough sources cited below to verify this and it is notable. The sources need to be added to the article though. Gwernol 03:35, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

• Weak Keep I did find an article from Sports Illustrated, which is a major publication, here [1]. The Australian Herald here [2] (although it appears to be a reprinting of an AP wire, which might have been carried in other markets). I don't know if this qualifies it as being notable yet, however, as most of the press is for the novelty of the production about Tonya Harding and Nancy Kerrigan. Maybe the article is too soon and perhaps should wait until it reaches a major production? --Ataricodfish 05:16, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
  • 'Comment - I'm from Australia, and I'm sure the publication you mentioned isn't on print. Looks like some minor web-news?ßlηguγΣη | Have your say!!! - review me 05:18, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Comment Ah, good point then, so I'll strike that out. Probably just copying the AP article. However, Sports Illustrated is definitely a major publication. I don't know if it's only in the online issue of SI or in the print magazine, though. This does show T&N is in the news, but perhaps it fails WP:N? --Ataricodfish 05:26, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Delete Alright, after researching WP:NOT, I strike my weak keep. Wikipedia is not a news report, and as of now, article is of a non-notable play which is currently getting minor press for its goofy newsfriendly topic. Should it move to bigger venues, win awards, gross a substancial amount, etc., then we can reconsider the article in the future per WP:N. --Ataricodfish 05:50, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Delete per nom. --Srikeit^{(talk ¦ ✉)} 11:33, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

• • The opera was mentioned in a number of media outlets around the US that were not just copied from the AP. All are available on LexisNexis - search string used: [tonya w/4 nancy AND (music! or opera!)]
    • For example:
    • The Orlando Sentinal (May 4)
    • Baltimore Sun (May 3)
    • Seattle P-I (May 3)
    • Boston Herald (May 2)
    • In addition, this got coverage last October in the New York Times (Oct. 18, 2005 - Arts Section, page 2):
      • Anyone searching for an opera built on violent conflict more recent than the Trojan Wars need look no farther than Tufts University, where plans are in progress for a spring production of Nancy and Tonya: The Opera, based on the rivalry between the ice skaters Nancy Kerrigan and Tonya Harding that led to an attack on Ms. Kerrigan before the 1994 Winter Olympics. PlaybillArts.com reported that the opera, with a libretto by the novelist Elizabeth Searle and music by Abigail Al-Doory, a Tufts graduate student, features an aria based on Ms. Kerrigan's lament: Why? Why? Why?

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.233.78.224 (talk • contribs) .

• Delete per nom. Eusebeus 18:04, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep I'm willing to trust LexisNexis verification that it's received multiple articles. The article may however need an Edit if we can't verify that it did in fact receive international attention from sources other than the AP article. --24.50.144.90 19:54, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Comment I fully trust Lexis-Nexis, and as I noted above, the article appeared in Sports Illustrated online and other AP articles. However, is this opera noteable yet? Right now, it's just human interest news, considering it only premiered a few days ago as a college production and is receiving attention primarily for the novelty of a Tonya Harding and Nancy Kerrigan singing. Having reviewed WP:not and WP:N, I don't think the article is noteable or any different than any other student production by graduate students at other colleges -- the only difference is that the subject matter made a nice human interest story for a day. Now, if the play expands to a major venue, wins an award, or makes tons of money, then I'd argue for keeping the article. But right now, it's not yet noteable and is simply a college production which had a good press release going for it. --Ataricodfish 20:06, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Comment I can see your point and where you're coming from. My stance is that it is notable because it is a college production that has garnered national (international disputed) attention. It is extremely rare for that sort of attention to happen, and is the main reason I'd say keep. I definitely appreciate the additional reasoning you've offered, though. --24.50.144.90 20:25, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Response Trust me, I was torn with this, which is why I voted "Weak Keep" originally before changing my vote to "Delete". To use a recent example, there was a cat named Molly that was trapped in a NY wall recently which received a great deal of attention for a week across the globe. It made a nice human interest piece, but then the story disappeared a month ago when the cat was rescued. An article was attempted for Molly the cat, but was deleted as non noteable. My belief is that it's too early to evaluate T&N, as its importance might disappear by next week never to be heard of again. Now, should it follow the path of operas like the Jerry Springer one and become even a small scale success -- i.e., we're still hearing of this opera a year from now -- then I'd fully support keeping this in Wiki. --Ataricodfish 20:42, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Keep The opera has now been covered by NPR's "Only A Game" program: http://podcastdownload.npr.org/anon.npr-podcasts/podcast/330/510052/5383921/WBUR_5383921.mp3

This program is carried by about 118 radio stations, so at this point I think it's fair to say that this production, regardless of who is producing it, has garnered significant national attention.

Keep There is another article here that mentions press that goes back a couple years: http://www.oregonlive.com/entertainment/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/entertainment/114669333737030.xml&coll=7 And here is an AP article in USA Today from 2005: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/winter/2005-10-13-harding-kerrigan-opera_x.htm?POE=click-refer There is also video coverage here: http://www.kptv.com/Global/category.asp?C=36238 And here is an article from The London Daily Telegraph from a few months ago: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?view=DETAILS&grid=&xml=/sport/2006/02/10/soicus10.xml Furthermore, the writer, Elizabeth Searle, is notable. She's had several books published and has been reviewed by the NY Times Book Review —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.6.22.42 (talk • contribs) .

Keep From everything above, its pretty clear that the opera is being produced. Its pretty clear that it has gotten some press. It is not for us to judge the value of said press one way or the other. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.240.19.206 (talk • contribs) .

• Delete. Once the editors who found the evidence have done their work and put the links into the article, I'll change my vote to keep. Vizjim 09:59, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.