Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Stigmata (Band)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was delete. - Mailer Diablo 03:45, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Stigmata (Band)

• Delete non-notable band. They want you to listen to their demo. Chris the speller 03:51, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
• Delete per nom, WP:NMG. PJM 07:40, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
• delete nn band Spearhead 20:15, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
• Extremely Strong Keep - This band is very well known in Australia, and get daily airplay on Triple J radio. [1]. They have played to large sell out concerts, and their music has been included on several best selling compilation albums. Their first album release was 1998, and I think that they have had 5 or 6 album releases, not including their inclusion on about 15 compilation albums. Allmusic.com recognises them. It is a bit difficult to search for them though since the name is used in so many other things. There are many songs called Stigmata (Ministry had a famous song called Stigmata, for example), and there are quite a lot of other bands called Stigmata as well. Therefore, they probably should be changed to Stigmata (Australian band), just to be safe. I have some of their music here, from a triple j release of "the best in heavy metal music for 2004". Something makes me think that that doesn't count as non notable. Zordrac (talk) Wishy Washy Darwikinian Eventualist 21:43, 8 December 2005 (UTC) Never mind. Apparently I was looking at the American band called "Stigmata", which is actually a famous band. Does that mean that we should rewrite the article? Zordrac (talk) Wishy Washy Darwikinian Eventualist 21:48, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
  • As long as you aren't thinking about Stigmata band, give it a try. Uncle G 23:30, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
    • I am just plain confused. There seem to be so many bands/songs/albums called Stigmata that this is just about an impossible project. It probably needs a disambig. Zordrac (talk) Wishy Washy Darwikinian Eventualist 02:48, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
    • Actually, I just had a thought. What I could do is write an article for Stigmata (song) for the famous Ministry (band) song that inspired everything else, and then include all of the snippets in there. Its pretty clear that the Ministry song inspired all of this. Then we can do a merge :). That might be a better way to go about it. Sepultura also did a song called Stigmata (or at least a cover of Ministry's song) and I keep seeing Stigmata this Stigmata that everywhere. LOL. Zordrac (talk) Wishy Washy Darwikinian Eventualist 02:51, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
      • Actually, just on that, I noticed that NONE of Ministry's songs have their own article. I was like WTF? Jesus Built My Hotrod was extremely influential, if for no other reason than it was banned worldwide by religious groups. A line out of the song was "Jesus is the Devil". They were sued for that, and had to change the line to "Jesus was a carpenter". It was perhaps the most famous banned song about Jesus Christ. Because there is a Christian Rock band called "Ministry", the heavy metal band has come under constant criticism for the way that they do their music, which in turn has led to Ministry in effect taking them on and releasing both fake Christian Rock songs like "Jesus Built My Hotrod" and "Stigmata" as well as raging criticisms of Christianity, in a similar vein to Black Sabbath, except that Ministry are not satanic - they are in effect having a joke at the expense of Christianity. Ministry inspired such bands as Soundgarden and Alice In Chains to create their own stinging attacks on Christianity, and the song "Stigmata" was seen as the inspiration for the concept for all of these bands, which also later included Alice Cooper's own attack on Christianity. These stinging attacks were also referenced in the movie by the same name - Stigmata (film) referenced some of the criticisms from the 1988 Ministry song. However, Ministry's most popular song was in fact "Just One Fix", which was in reality an attack on drug use and trying to convince people not to take drugs - but for a long time was portrayed in the media as encouraging it. As Ministry's lawyers were able to prove that it was discouraging drug use, that song increased their credibility significantly, and became their signature song. Whilst they were hurt by the likes of "Jesus Built My Hotrod", "Psalm 69" and "Stigmata", "Just One Fix" helped them. According to chart success, however, "Lay Lady Lay" was their most popular, and, like Metallica, their cult icon status eventually led to actual chart and album success in the late 1990s and early 2000s. Many other bands have copied Ministry, and they have been regarded as one of the forefathers of death metal, and were often referenced with new hard metal groups. Eventually, groups such as Opeth and Carcus came about which were in fact heavier than Ministry, and that became the description of what death metal was - if it was not as heavy as Ministry, then it was merely heavy metal - any heavier and it was death metal. Stigmata the song was known to describe what Ministry was all about, and influenced culture throughout the heavy metal and death metal world, leading to the creation of a number of bands including A US band in 1989 who had 6 major albums, a Sri Lankan band and most recently an Australian death metal band in 2004. The song has been covered and referenced in a large number of others.

Yes, I know that's original research, but I know its true. I think that's the way to go though. But is there agreement that the song "Stigmata" is suitably influential to warrant its own article? It didn't have chart success, but had a huge influence. There are a number of Metallica songs like "One" that were similarly influential. I would like to make an article for Jesus Builty My Hotrod, Just One Fix and Stigmata, all Ministry songs. IMO the others weren't influential enough. Zordrac (talk) Wishy Washy Darwikinian Eventualist 03:04, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.