Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Spiders in Israel palestine

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. --Sam Blanning^(talk) 17:42, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Spiders in Israel palestine

• Mammals in Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip
• Mosquitoes in Israel palestine
• Nematoda in Israel and Palestine
• Biodiversity in Israel Palestine/Snails
• Chordata in Israel and Palestine
• Mosquitoes in Israel palestine
• Biodiversity in Israel Palestine/dragonflies and dasmeflies
• Beetles in Israel and Palestine
• Moths in Israel and Palestine
• Ticks in Israel palestine
• Protista in Israel and Palestine
• Cnidaria in Israel and Palestine
• Porifera in Israel and Palestine
• Arthropoda in Israel and Palestine
• Mollusca in Israel and Palestine
• Birds in Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip
• Reptiles in Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip
• Amphibians in Israel Palestine
• Scorpions in Israel Palestine
• Butterflies in Israel and Palestine
• Annelida in Israel and Palestine

I was in the middle of fulfilling several move requests regarding these articles, but I have been wondering why these articles exist. None of these articles seem to indicate why separate articles are needed regarding the presence of these species in the region. As of right now, they're simple lists of species, so at the very least, these articles should probably be merged into one (perhaps Biodiversity in Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip). -- tariqabjotu 02:51, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

• CommentI don't know what to make of this, the articles just appear to be lists of fauna found in the region. If they were merged the article would be huge. ||150.203.177.218 03:58, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
• Keep but move and merge to List of mammals in Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip, List of reptiles..., List of invertebrates..., and List of birds... to make these lists consistent with the others in "Category:Lists of animals" -- the lists themselves are potentially useful. Shimeru 06:00, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
• Delete - none of these pages is likely ever to be maintained to any reasonable standard of accuracy. Michael K. Edwards 10:14, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
• Delete - while assigning species to regions is certainly normal, it is odd to assign it to countries. does that mean those species do not appear in Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt .... besides: the information where a species occurs is already contained on the wiki pages of the various species Yellowbelliedmarmot 12:17, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
• Merge Are birds and spiders in Israel/Palestine so different from the ones in Lebanon, Egypt, and Jordan? Surprisingly, no Loons were reported. Merge to fewer and more comprehensive lists. Make sure that climate/geography is the boundary determinant and not political lines on a map. As for maintenance problems, once the list is created, how often will species evolve, become extinct, or move into and out of the subject geographic area?Edison 16:41, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Keep all (possibly rename to whatever the convention is to talk about Israel + the occupied territories) Certainly they will be different than those in Egypt (with the very specific ecosystem of the nile), Jordan (which is more desertic) and probably the northern part of Lebanon. So I'm not sure what's the fuss about. Such lists can be very useful for school children who want to know about the very specific part of the world in which they live in and I see no reason why these could not be maintained as accurate. Pascal.Tesson 01:30, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

• Merge at the very minimum. It was pointed out on the move discussion that the only analogous pages are Biodiversity of New Caledonia and Biodiversity of New Zealand, and neither of them is anywhere near the length of this series. I've notified the creator to see if we might not get some of his feedback. Tewfik^Talk 15:28, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per Michael K. Edwards and Yellowbelliedmarmot, Merge per Edison and Tewfik if Delete fails. Jayjg ^(talk) 16:44, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
• delete per Michael and Yellowbelliedmarmot. -- tasc ^words_deeds 17:11, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
• delete per nom, merge at best, provided sound scientifical reasoning is given. --tickle me 17:18, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per Yellowbelliedmarmot. Isarig 02:35, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per Yellowbelliedmarmot, otherwise merge. 6SJ7 14:24, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
• Delete or maximally merge into a general Middle East entomology article that is actually maintainable. Very few species are bothered by political encumberances and will happily climb the West Bank Barrier even if that were to lead to international conflict. JFW | T@lk 20:35, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
• Delete or Merge at the very minimum per Tewfik and Jayjg. Amoruso 21:05, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
• Keep those things is worthy in an encyclopedia Nielswik_(talk) 00:04, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment well how do you respond to the problems listed? Tewfik^Talk 06:37, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
    • Comment What problems? All I see is a string of "delete per"s. The only actual arguments raised were Michael K. Edwards' assertion that such lists aren't maintainable (answered by Pascal.Tesson) and Yellowbelliedmarmot's contention that listing such things by country is "odd," if that can be called an argument. There's precedent, though, for what it's worth: List of Azerbaijani mammals, List of mammals in Brazil, List of Estonian mammals, List of Texas butterflies, List of dragonfly species recorded in Ireland. Perhaps that simply means all of those should be deleted, too, but I don't see that a good argument for doing so has been raised. The articles as they stand are poor, but for what reason is the information contained in those articles not encyclopedic? They're verifiable and sourced (via the parent article Biodiversity in Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip), so that's not the issue. Is the argument that flora and fauna are not encyclopedic? Shimeru 08:47, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
      • There is no "POV" issue as we've already agreed to rename this to a more accurate/neutral form - however when looking at the extent of this series (~25 entries I think; see {{Biodiversity in Israel Palestine}}), it seems that the coverage here is grossly out of proportion to anywhere else, and that that may be unencyclopaedic. Tewfik^Talk 13:38, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
        • Is the fact that we're lacking other articles really a rationale for deletion? Or for creating those articles? The sheer number here does seem excessive, but merging would address that. What is it about the information itself that makes it not worthy of inclusion? Admittedly I have no expertise in the field, but an easily-accessible set of lists of species found in a given area seems like it might be useful to me -- especially if the alternative is to look up each individual species' article to determine whether it is in fact found in the region in question. It's true we have much more information in this vein for Israel etc. and Britain than elsewhere, but I don't see why that's a problem requiring deletion. I'd think this sort of thing is what the "not paper" guideline is for. Shimeru 19:56, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
          • I'm not sure what we're arguing about, since I advocated merging into the standard format for these lists. I commented on a vote that ignored the context of the discussion in an attempt to illicit a more nuanced formulation of the user's position. Cheers, Tewfik^Talk 15:29, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
            • I'm not trying to argue with you specifically, I'm trying to obtain more information from those who voted delete. Your question just seemed like a good place to start from. Unfortunately, most of those who favor deletion don't have their own rationale, and those who do apparently don't feel like expanding upon it. We'll see whether Thameen's new comment has better results. Shimeru 16:17, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per Yellowbelliedmarmot. -- Avi 00:14, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per all the above. ←Humus sapiens ^ну? 07:47, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
• Delete seems like the creation of either a prank or a crank... Man that was so clever.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 05:39, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

• Keep I did create these lists and they are the result of a lot of research on the net and in books. I did not mean to make them as articles, I just wanted lists to support the main article Biodiversity in Israel and Palestine. Those who want to see these lists deleted raised the following points:

• • Do we need to have lists of species in separate geographical areas: The geographical area of Israel Palestine is a very unique one from an ecological point of view. The main article Biodiversity in Israel and Palestine describes this area. This geographical area may not have many species unique to it, but its combination of species is unique and this is what the main article and the lists are about. The lists in question of deletion are part of that main article.

• • Do we need to have lists of species in certain countries: These lists are not about a certain country but about a geographical region that includes Israel and Palestine. So the issue is not countries but a geographical region that has a certain combination of species.

• • That the information where a species occurs is already contained on the wiki pages of the various species: The wiki page of each species answers the question where does this species live. These lists answer a different kind of question What species do live in a certain region. These are two important questions. These lists are here to answer the later question regarding the geographical area of Israel Palestine.

• • That the coverage here is grossly out of proportion to anywhere else: I do not see how can this be a problem, It is a good thing.

• • That these are not complete article: I only wanted to create lists that support the mean article. I did not mean to create articles. These lists are long so it is not suitable to merge them in the article, this will make it very long and crowded. I always wanted to know how can we create lists in wikipedia without the need for these lists to meet article standards. Can any one help me with this?

• • My opinion is that these lists are very informative for any one seeking to understand the ecology of this area. They are a great reference for any one looking for a certain species in the area. It will be a great loss if we delete them. I hope more experienced wikipedians may help us put these lists in a more friendly form while keeping them as extensions of the main article Biodiversity in Israel and Palestine--Thameen 09:36, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.