Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Simon Gipson

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was keep. - Mailer Diablo 11:13, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Simon Gipson

Articles on school principals are inherently not notable, and this one is no exception. No real biographical info, just some quotes, and written by anons from his school who have continually vandalised the school's own page (see debate here). Serves no purpose, will lilely not improve, and should be either deleted or made into a redirect page. Harro5 06:35, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

• NOTE I have updated much of this article, including adding biographical info as you requested Harro5. Although you may have seen it as unlikely, it has dramatically improved. Please take note of this when voting for/against deletion. Beyondcapricorn 01:33, 13 November 2005 (AEST)
  • Response: as jfg284 suggests below, this is all an attempt to make Gipson out as more important than he is. He is no more notable than any other independent school principal in Australia (eg. see debate before a redirect at J.T. Vallance and merge at Robert Knight) and these conference studies aren't very important in education. Mentioning that he writes for the school's ""The Michaelean" basically says he writes for the school newsletter and people in the school read it - not at all important. Also, claiming he has national media profile is ridiculous! A Current Affair is widely regarded as the most rubbishy news program in Australia (this can't be denied by any Australian), and the homework issue hardly received coverage beyond the program. The issue with the Salvation Cross doesn't need an article on the principal, but rather a mention in the St Michaels article, as the issue isn't about him but rather his school. Essentially, Beyondcapricorn is presenting anything and everything that could be seen as sort-of-notable by even just one person in an attempt to keep this puff piece alive. I see no reason to keep this article, and at the very most would say Gipson could have a short paragraph in the St Michaels article to talk about him, but still see this as making him out as more than he is. I strongly consider all voters to consider these arguments. Thanks. Harro5 22:21, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
    • Response: Gipson IS in fact more notable than other independent school principals in Australia, as detailed by mass-media exposure, the numerous publishings of his studies in regards to education around the world, & as detailed by current positions he holds OUTSIDE of his position at his school, eg. Chairman of the Association of Coeducational Schools, and Board Member of the Association of Independent Schools Victoria. Also on a side note, the guidelines speak nothing of personal opinion in regards to which outlets one speaks on, and as such, your opinions on A Current Affair are not relevant. Please remember to stay on topic and within the guidelines. I strongly consider all voters to consider how valid Harro5's arugments actually are. Beyondcapricorn 12:44, 13 November 2005 (AEST)
• Delete though I confess that I laughed out loud at the picture caption. Jasmol 07:48, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
• Delete as he doesn't appear to meet WP:BIO. Capitalistroadster 07:56, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Australia-related deletions. . Capitalistroadster 08:09, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Ambi 08:12, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
• Keep: Wish to point out that by Wikipedia's own biography guidelines, this page has an absolute right to be included. Quoted from guidelines which can be found here:
  • Widely recognized entertainment personalities and opinion makers. Simon Gipson is the most quoted Headmaster, across all media mediums in Victoria, and one of the most quoted in Australia. This is not only because of his school's reforms, but often that he is one of only a handful of headmasters willing to give an opinion or make a statement. You only have to see from the long list of articles below, on his school's website, or a simple google search of his name to realise that he is one of the most respected opinion makers on his area of expertise in Australia, Education.
  • Published authors, editors, and photographers who have written books with an audience of 5,000 or more or in periodicals with a circulation of 5,000 or more. Simon Gipson has authored numerous studies, essays, and thesis in regards to Education. His works have been published on their own, and in many widely read periodicals such as EdTech and Educare. A quick google search for his name will again confirm this. Also prior to his position at his school, he was CEO of The Endeavour Group in Australasia, a group that reforms schools. He has given many lectures and been the guest speaker at innumerous conferences around the world about education. Also wish to point out that Simon writes for the school's periodical 'The Michaelian News' which is available via the school's website, which has a circulation in excess of 5,000 old students & community members.
  • Persons achieving renown or notoriety for their involvement in newsworthy events. Simon Gipson has become quite well known around Melbourne, Australia for many media storms regarding the school, including but not limited to the Salvation Army scandal that recently rocked the school, and the interview he gave to the nationally broadcasted 'A Current Affair' where he was mis-represented to sound like he had removed homework from the classroom at his school. This interview sparked a national debate, in newspapers and on national radio (See Triple J's 'THe Hack'), where Simon was contstantly referenced to.Beyondcapricorn 21:46, 12 November 2005 (AEST)

• Keep: As above! dankeschön Beyondcapricorn for collating this data Comradeash 11:21, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
• Comment: Maybe, if the case for keeping him is his works as an educational theorist (I made that title up, but you know what I mean), that is what should be stressed in the article instead of his position of the head of school of an Australian secondary school. For example, the intro lists him as "a teacher, administrator and consultant" first, followed by a paragraph elaborating on his position as a teacher, followed by a paragraph mentioning his published works, followed finally by a paragraph about him becoming well known. With the new addition of the Published Works section, the focus of the page is more on that. However, it seems a relatively last-dtich effort to provide the article some legitimacy now that it's listed on AfD (and I've a sneaking suspicion that's what it is). The introduction and Infobox still focus mainly on his position as a run-of-the-mill administrator rather than one known for his unique views on education. Change the intro a little, take out the info box and make it a simple picture, you may be in business. No delete vote here, but I'm kind of leaning that way until the page is cleaned up a bit.jfg284 14:36, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
• Keep, but I have to agree with jfg284 that the article could use some work; for example, the "quotes" section needs to be a bit more discriminating in its selection (many of the quotes there are useful as verification that the guy is cited in newspapers, but not interesting in their own right). — Haeleth Talk 14:50, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
• Keep: Clearly meets the standards of policy.--Nicodemus75 15:31, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
• Keep: I agree with Haeleth--FRS 20:20, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
• Keep: Notable enough for me. Reyk 21:11, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
• Keep this please he seems notable enough to me too Yuckfoo 23:41, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
• Keep: Agreed - meets the Wikipedia standards Macbandit 02:36, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
• Keep: Simon Gipson is not only a courageous reformer in the vein of Tony Hill, Paul Keating and Harro5, but a highly visible media personality and the Head of St Michael's Grammar School. He is God. Egocentre1 07:11, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
• Keep User:Beyondcapricorn's righteous edits. By the way, that picture is priceless! Jacqui ^{★ 01:31, 14 November 2005 (UTC)}
• Keep needs to be a bit more encyclopaedic and less like a marketing blurb, but it's a start -- Ian ≡ talk 04:31, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
• Keep - notable not as a principal, but as a friend of Kermit activist. - A Man In Black (conspire | past ops) 07:41, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
• Update: I see that this article may have some worth, and might even set a good precedent for what school principal articles need to attain. I'm working with the authors to cut down on the extracts from article and turn it into a short and sweet bio. Remember that this case will be cited by people who write future articles on principals, and may open the floodgates, but I see a purpose for it being here. Harro5 04:39, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
• Keep This appears to be an exceptionally well researched article with plenty of external references. The authors are to be commended. --Tony Sidaway^t 08:03, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
• Keep - This delete tag is the work of one malicious user whos account is up for review right now. This article has a high quality standard and is more than long enough not to be arbitrarilly deleted. --Ewok Slayer 22:48, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.