Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shovepenny

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was DELETE both --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 13:33, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Shovepenny, World Shovepenny Association

A NN pub game in England that garners a whopping 15 unique Google hits including references to its own site. The other pages are a "governing body" and a piece of equipment used in the game itself. Note that if these get deleted, a reference to the WSA will have to be removed from the WSA disambig page as well. --howcheng [ t • c • w • e ] 17:03, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Nomination withdrawn for cocktail stick after rewrite by User:Jonathan de Boyne Pollard. --howcheng [ t • c • w • e ] 18:37, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete all per nom. --howcheng [ t • c • w • e ] 17:03, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
    • Redirect Shovepenny per Pilatus. Delete World Shovepenny Association. --howcheng [ t • c • w • e ] 22:03, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
      • Delete Shovepenny too at request of author to not redirect. --howcheng [ t • c • w • e ] 06:29, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete all per nom. PJM 17:45, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete and redirect to Shove ha'penny, which is the proper name of the pub game. The page itself is total nonsense. Pilatus 17:55, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
    • And delete the World Shovepenny Association. It's someone's website. Pilatus 22:15, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Redirect Shovepenny to Shove ha'penny per Pilatus. Not sure what should be done with t'other one... — Haeleth Talk 19:27, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
    • Oh, just get rid of the website. I take it that you've never lived in Britain. Shove ha'penny is a traditional pub game and played on a board like this.
  • Redirect both of these. Surprise, surprise, an ancient pub game doesn't have a huge google presence. This is a well known part of English heritage. Trollderella 20:04, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
    • Comment: Googling the proper name "shove ha'penny" has many many results. "Shovepenny" gets almost nothing. --howcheng [ t • c • w • e ] 20:27, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
That's why it should be a redirect. Trollderella 20:55, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
My reply was meant to say that had I known the real name of the game, I would have done the redirect myself and not brought it to AFD, although I still would have done so for the "governing body," as can be seen in the change of my vote above. --howcheng [ t • c • w • e ] 22:03, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
    • Trollderella, from your vote it seems that you haven't looked at the website and just voted keep for it. The website is about some game that User:EatItRaw plays down the pub with his mates, not about the well-attested shove ha'penny played on a board.

This is a real game played on a weekly basis, we have no association to shove ha'penny, our money tour is worth far more than shove ha'penny's world championship purse, Why is coinorama allowed if we are not. I co own the www.shovepenny.co.uk website and we are a genuine game with a regular circuit of players. By all means edit sections you do not agree with but the game is real and played by a large number of players.

I think www.shovepenny.co.uk is good for 3rd party verification. www.ibstonecricketclub.co.uk with which I have no affiliaton also mentions the game.

  • Redirect to the Shove ha'penny. the new madeup game is not notable. Bwithh 03:26, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Notability doesn't enter into it. The article cites no sources and research turns up no evidence outside of the web-site purporting to be that of the association that the association actually exists. The same is true for the purported game. Indeed, given that the web site gives the name of its owner as "Eat It Raw" and that this article was written by EatItRaw (talk • contribs) this seems to be a clear case of original research, with one person creating a web site about a new game that they have invented and then creating a Wikipedia article as well. Wikipedia is not for things that no-one but their creators subscribe to, be they scientific theories, religions, or pub game organizations.

    There's no evidence that anyone gets the name of Shove ha'penny wrong in this way, either. Delete. Uncle G 04:49, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

    • Google has some 500 hits for "shove penny". It's a not-too-common variant of "shove ha'penny", but redirects are cheap. Pilatus 14:19, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
      • That would be shove penny. I repeat: There's no evidence that anyone gets the name of Shove ha'penny wrong in this way. Uncle G 17:25, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
        • Redirects are cheap and we keep plausible misspellings. Pilatus 17:55, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
          • No, we keep mis-spellings where someone has already made the mis-spelling by starting a duplicate article at the mis-spelled title (on the principle that the fact that someone has actually made the mis-spelling and started a duplicate article shows that it is likely that others will make the same mistake in the future). This is not the case here. I repeat: There's no evidence that anyone gets the name of Shove ha'penny wrong in this way. Uncle G 18:48, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

If you feel that this original game does not warrant entry then fine delete it, do not redirect to shove ha'penny as it had nothing to do with shove ha'penny, they are about as similar as snooker and pool.--EatItRaw 08:44, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

  • As an outsider looking at the article I am sure that the games of Shovepenny and that other game involving coins are not related not do they even claim to be the same game. The game of shovepenny has been played in many locations and counties over the last few years. Many a landlord has commented that they would love to host a premium Shovepenny tour event as it brings life to the Public House and additional money to the Landlord.
  • I have found other websites that link to the Shovepenny website (http://www.filmgeek.me.uk). To delete this entry from Wikipedia would be an outrage. Surely to delete it would be to claim that it is not exist... The game does and will continue to do so.

If you are to delete the article then delete any reference between Shovepenny and that other game involving a coin and a board. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bubbashovaa (talk • contribs) 11:04, 4 November 2005 (UTC).

    • Nobody is denying that the game exists, just that's not verifiable per Wikipedia policy. --howcheng [ t • c • w • e ] 16:49, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete or redirect these. I agree with UncleG above, but would note that if one author made this mistake, another might do the same. A redirect would obviate that possibility. Dottore So 17:37, 6 November 2005 (UTC)


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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