Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shi'a view of Muawiyah I

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was no consensus. Mailer Diablo 17:10, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Shi'a view of Muawiyah I

• Delete inherently POV, as well as POV language in the article, if you look at the page history it is clear that one user owns this article. Jersey Devil 14:46, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. POV fork. Kill it with fire. Dr Zak 14:50, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete POV Bayyoc 15:15, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. no more of a pov fork than Jewish view of Jesus and Christian views of Jesus. Pov issues in the article it self are dealt with, not deleted. Lay of with insulting me with claims of owanage. See also this--Striver 18:08, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

What pov in the article itself? I coulnd find any pov to unpov. If it was not a bogus claim, please point out the pov sentance in the article. --Striver 18:10, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

• Keep as per Striver, but cleanup for POV (Phrases like "Ali, the rightful Caliph") and some awkward language (which can easily be read as more POV).Bridesmill 20:02, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep for the reasons given in Striver's first comment. Needs some NPOVing, but that is no reason to delete it. Cadr 21:00, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete POV fork. Go and nominate "Jewish view of Jesus" if that article exists solely to push POV and serves no encyclopedia purpose. - CrazyRussian talk/contribs/email 05:18, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. POV forking is not an approved way to deal with content disputes. Stifle (talk) 10:36, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. Not anymore POV than for example Jewish view of Jesus but instead legitimate article spinout (see Wikipedia:Content forking#Article spinouts - "Summary style" articles). --Lambiam^Talk 01:12, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per stifle. M1ss1ontomars2k4 | T | C | @ 02:23, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

see also my arguementation at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shi'a view of Ali--Striver 08:59, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

• Delete and redirect to Muawiyah I. The main content of this article is duplicated at Muawiyah I - which then redirects you to this article... so you can read it all over again? The information is appropriate in the Muawiyah I article, but there's no need for a repetitive POV fork. --Hyperbole 02:37, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, irreconcilably POV. Some phrases that tip me off on that view: --CRGreathouse 02:59, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

"He is said to have opposed ˤAlī, the rightful Caliph, out of sheer greed for power and wealth."

"his mother whom they regard as the prostitute that killed her black children, became married to Muhammads arch enemy and chewed Hamza ibn Abd al-Muttalibs liver"

"His reign opened the door to unparalleled disaster"

Please do not omitt context:

"The Shi'a vilify Muˤāwiyya. His supposed conversion to Islam before the conquest of Mecca is dismissed as a fable, or mere hypocrisy. He is said to have opposed ˤAlī, the rightful Caliph, out of sheer greed for power and wealth. "

"Some list Abu Sufyan as one of the four, other do not. In any case, he accepted him as his father. For this reason, Shi'a name him "Muˤāwiyya ibn Hind", after his mother whom they regard as the prostitute that killed her black children, became married to Muhammads arch enemy and chewed Hamza ibn Abd al-Muttalibs liver."

"According to Shi'a belief, his reign opened the door to unparalleled disaster,"

Those sentances are perfectly NPOV--Striver 09:52, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

I trimmed space from the quotes since they're just pointers—I don't want to take up too much space when everyone who's voting here is reading the full articles anyway. I don't see how quoting most of them at length changes anything, though, or makes them NPOV. They're pretty slanted. As for your comment: I responded at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sunni view of Abu Huraira. Have a nice day! --CRGreathouse 07:03, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

You need to learn the definition of NPOV. Try reading WP:NPOV--Striver 09:47, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

comment Could anyone answer this: Why are the "<Islamic denomination> view of x" articles pov forks in your view, while Christian views of Jesus and Jewish view of Jesus not POV forks? Thanks for answering. --Striver 09:44, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Like in Christian views of Jesus we read: "Most further believe him to be the son of God, and the incarnation of God himself." Wow, obvious tip-off of irreconcilable POV. Delete! Delete! --Lambiam^Talk 09:54, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.