Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Salo in Space
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- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result of the debate was no consensus. -- King of Hearts talk 23:06, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Salo in Space
Not notable. Three google hits bogdan 20:18, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- Delete NN --Larsinio 20:36, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- Keep. Ukraine is not exactly an internet giant, so google is not good adviser here. At Talk:Salo in Space it is mentioned that "inclusion in comics.com.ua, which looks like a significant independent distributor of Ukrainian web comics, appears to fulfil point no. 3." mikka (t) 20:40, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- I'm not sure how signifiant is a site with 400 hits per day... (see the counter in the bottom side of the page) bogdan 20:48, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- Keep—it fulfils the notability criteria by being carried by an independent publisher, as mentioned by Mikka. I don't read Russian, but is that counter not showing 3,688 views and 442 referrers? Removing this article which passes the notability criteria would be a slap in the face of the young Ukrainian Internet culture. —Michael Z. 2006-03-13 22:07 Z
- Delete You can't really fulfill the notability criteria by saying a site with an apparently rather low number of pageviews 'looks like' a significant site. Are there people who can assert notability other than the two editors who've made a bunch of edits to the article and hence are unlikely to vote against it? If the main site is significant itself, perhaps we could have an article on it? I might well change my vote if such things change. --Fuzzie (talk) 22:35, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- Excuse my poor wording: I'm not fulfilling anything, nor saying that it 'looks like' something. I'm stating that Wikipedia's criteria for notability are unambiguously fulfilled by this article. The Criteria for web content specifically states "Web specific-content is notable if it meets any one of the following criteria: . . . 3. The content is distributed via a site which is both well known and independent of the creators, either through an online newspaper or magazine, an online publisher, or an online broadcaster.". There is no excuse to delete the article. —Michael Z. 2006-03-13 23:27 Z
- You've presented no proof that the site is 'well known and independent of the creators', and as such saying things like 'are unambigiously fulfilled' and 'there is no excuse to delete the article' just makes me suspicious of your bias. --Fuzzie (talk) 23:29, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- Is the site well-known? Is there a better-known Ukrainian webcomic site? According to Alexa, Salo in Space has about 1/10 as much traffic [1] as the number one Ukrainian recreation site, Students’kyy Forum [2], and traffic in a comparable range to the tenth-busiest Ukrainian recreation site, tourism.gov.ua [3]—look at the stats; they require some interpretation and the results are relative, but this is indicated as a relatively popular Ukrainian recreation site.
- Is the comic independent of the syndication site? My Russian is too poor to find the specific answer on the site, but it does publish guidelines for submittors [4], implying that it is a true syndication site and does not produce the comics which it publishes.
- This satisfies Wikipedia's notability criteria. —Michael Z. 2006-03-14 00:17 Z
- Alexa data on sites with ranks above ~500k is completely irrelevant - Alexa themselves admit ranks above 100k are unreliable at best. Is it not possible to find someone whose Russian is good enough to research the subject? I certainly have nothing against the webcomic, but am just unsatisified that it meets the criteria. However, based on your assertion there are guidelines for submissions on the site, I've changed my Delete vote to a Comment, for now. --Fuzzie (talk) 00:33, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- Hey, even my site has a better Alexa rank than www.comics.com.ua! :-) bogdan 09:26, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- After looking into this a little more, back to Delete, since no-one's bothered to try establishing notability further, as far as I can see, especially since editors are still claiming it meets the criteria "as indicated above". --Fuzzie (talk) 23:47, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
- Alexa data on sites with ranks above ~500k is completely irrelevant - Alexa themselves admit ranks above 100k are unreliable at best. Is it not possible to find someone whose Russian is good enough to research the subject? I certainly have nothing against the webcomic, but am just unsatisified that it meets the criteria. However, based on your assertion there are guidelines for submissions on the site, I've changed my Delete vote to a Comment, for now. --Fuzzie (talk) 00:33, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- You've presented no proof that the site is 'well known and independent of the creators', and as such saying things like 'are unambigiously fulfilled' and 'there is no excuse to delete the article' just makes me suspicious of your bias. --Fuzzie (talk) 23:29, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
- Excuse my poor wording: I'm not fulfilling anything, nor saying that it 'looks like' something. I'm stating that Wikipedia's criteria for notability are unambiguously fulfilled by this article. The Criteria for web content specifically states "Web specific-content is notable if it meets any one of the following criteria: . . . 3. The content is distributed via a site which is both well known and independent of the creators, either through an online newspaper or magazine, an online publisher, or an online broadcaster.". There is no excuse to delete the article. —Michael Z. 2006-03-13 23:27 Z
- Delete: There's a million and one webcomics. This one's somewhere around 990,000. --Durin 14:31, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
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- I dispute its notability, and being unique doesn't make it so. --Durin 19:22, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
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- Delete Not notable - sorry but it's just not enough. Celcius 14:32, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
- Keep. --Irpen 02:27, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- Keep Not that I'm a hard sell, but I trust Mikka's judgement on this one. –Abe Dashiell (t/c) 15:00, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- This has been listed on Wikipedia:WikiProject Webcomics/Deletion. –Abe Dashiell (t/c) 15:00, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
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- To expand, Mikka ain't exactly a keep-'em-all inclusionist and there's no doubt he knows Eastern Europe. If he says it's sufficiently notable, his opinion is worth a hell of a lot more than those of us who have just fiddled a little in Google. I will confess I do have an ulterior motive. I'd very much like our webcomics portfolio to include articles on a few non-English webcomics. Right now about all we've got aside from this one is Sosiaalisesti rajoittuneet and Yenny (which is dual-published in English and is more of a print comic anyway). –Abe Dashiell (t/c) 22:53, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- Yep. I'm exactly the opposite: I am a deletionist with respect to webcomics and initiated quite a few anti-Comic AFDs (many failed). IMO this one is notable for its uniqueness in form: Ukrainian folklore mapped to space opera. This argument was regrettably dismissed as nonessential and I agree it smells as original research, so I feel myself a bit uneasy here, since the only argument is that of Michael Z., and I like the idea of User:Mukadderat below to fold the article into Salo (food) for the time being, just like Salo in Chocolate. mikka (t) 23:28, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
- To expand, Mikka ain't exactly a keep-'em-all inclusionist and there's no doubt he knows Eastern Europe. If he says it's sufficiently notable, his opinion is worth a hell of a lot more than those of us who have just fiddled a little in Google. I will confess I do have an ulterior motive. I'd very much like our webcomics portfolio to include articles on a few non-English webcomics. Right now about all we've got aside from this one is Sosiaalisesti rajoittuneet and Yenny (which is dual-published in English and is more of a print comic anyway). –Abe Dashiell (t/c) 22:53, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- Delete, does not appear to meet WP:WEB. comics.com.ua soes not appear to be a "well known." Being distributed by non-notable website does not make a comic notable. -- Dragonfiend 16:23, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- Merge/redirect into Salo. It has a very relevant section "Salo in popular culture". It may be recreated into a separate article when it becomes undisputably notable. Mukadderat 18:46, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- Keep. --DDima (talk) 22:57, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
- Keep per Michael Z. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 03:16, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
- Keep per Michael Z. Seriously people, it's not a good idea to start an AfD based completely on throwing Russian characters into an English search engine and getting nothing out of it. -- Zaron 20:58, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
