Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Saint Petersburg Democratic Club

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Keep (4 keeps, 1 delete, 1 merge) Renata3 17:27, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Saint Petersburg Democratic Club

Page was created because of the small controversy generated by the ad mentioned in the article (certainly for no other reason). But the controversy is probably not even big enough to include even in the article for Secretary Rumsfeld. The page simply cannot be justified except by the most loose, chronologically sensitive encyclopedic standards. ALC Washington 04:49, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

• Keep and expand if possible. I never heard about this before, but can't see why the info should be suppressed now. -- JJay 04:53, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
  • No desire on my part to suppress anything. But not every little blurb of hyperbole or event that makes it to the fifth story on a twenty-four-hour news blotter deserves an article in an encycolpedia, even one as expansive as Wikipedia. The "controversy" generated by the ad was simply not a notable event, nor does it make the Club a notable organization. ALC Washington 05:04, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
    • I see your point, but can not agree. The event happened. It was covered nationwide, maybe around the world. Like the Palm Beach ballot, it is now part of history and thus must remain here. I also strongly oppose the proposed merge below, because I don't think we can saddle the State party with the actions of this club. -- JJay 05:22, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
      • I understand your point of view, but I do not think your comparison is relevant. This event, which received ephemeral and unsubstantial attention, was nowhere near as notable, important, and indeed historic as the Palm Beach ballot controversy. I also oppose the merge below for reasons I outline there. ALC Washington 05:26, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
    • I don't think you mean unsubstantial as the event was covered by USA Today, CNN, MSNBC, The Associated Press, The Guardian newspaper in the UK and countless other media. A check on Newsbank, also shows that the club has been a longtime player in Saint Petersburg politics. -- JJay 18:57, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
      • I do indeed mean unsubstantial, as the substance of the thing should not be measured by how many news organizations picked it up on the AP wire. As Last Malthusian's writes below, "it was blown out of proportion when it created a brief media storm and we're blowing it out ten times more by recording it in an 'encyclopaedia' article for posterity. Basically, this wasn't a notable incident, this club has no other claim to fame, therefore it's non-notable." ALC Washington 20:09, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
      • In addition, while I have not searched on Newsbank, I did go to the St. Petersburg Times website and executed an archives search (covering 1987-2005). The Times, Florida's largest daily, is the authority on St. Petersburg politics, and would have reported on the club repeatedly if it were a player (the way it reports on, for example, the Suncoast Tiger Bay Club, which is the biggest political organization in the city). The archives search, however, returned only two articles not related to this "controversy," both mentioning the club in passing in brief candidate bios in a voter's guide the Times produces before elections. The club is definitely not a "player." ALC Washington 20:09, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
      • Comment: I can see that you are virulently opposed to this article. However, as the Guardian called this event- the biggest political story in America, it deserves full explanation here. Even if the story only lasted five minutes on a slow news day. -- JJay 21:26, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
        • I would not call my opposition to the article "virulent," and I hope that our give-and-take in the discussion of its merits hasn't come off that way to you. I certainly don't want this to descend into ad-hominem remarks. As far as the characterization of the event in the Guardian, however, its suggestion that this was for "one brief moment... the biggest political story in America" must be taken in context. The suggestion was written up in a British broadsheet's "Observer" column as part of a general commentary on the early nastiness of American campaigns. In fact, it does not actually provide much evidence for the main arguments of the Guardian if you consider the column as a whole. Also, that the Guardian preoccupied itself beyond reason with a suggestion by one small independent group in the United States that Secretary Rumsfeld be assassinated should surprise no one familiar with the paper's openly acknowledged biases on the left. There are no hard feelings or vested interests on my side. ALC Washington 22:29, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
      • A discussion of the media spin given the event- from both the left and the right- would be a perfectly valid way of expanding the article. -- JJay 22:37, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
• Merge with the article on the Florida Democratic Party. At the very least change the name to avoid confusion with the other Saint Petersburg (y'know, that place in Russia). Dodging accusations of Anglo-American bias and fleeing before things get hot... Durova 05:15, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
  • If we read the newspaper article that JJay supplied to substantiate the event's importance, we would note that the Club received a Charter from the FDP, but nothing else. I live in Florida, and these clubs operate fairly independently. It wouldn't really be relevant to the FDP organization. At any rate, if the vote really is to keep, then changing the name to "St. Petersburg Democratic Club" (after all the official and full formal name of the city and the club) would be my first priority. ALC Washington 05:26, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
    • New addition, I see. It's enough to make me think. Your suggested change is not sufficient. The state of Florida should be in the title because Wikipedia has a global audience. Durova 05:38, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
• Delete. Dear God, I'm sad enough to remember this. Nonetheless, it was blown out of proportion when it created a brief media storm and we're blowing it out ten times more by recording it in an 'encyclopaedia' article for posterity. Basically, this wasn't a notable incident, this club has no other claim to fame, therefore it's non-notable. I'm English, by the way, so there's not much point in accusing me of trying to 'suppress' stuff about a political party in a different country. --Last Malthusian 15:51, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
• Keep it happened. Wikipedia is the sum of human knowledge. Jcuk 19:59, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
• Keep — possibly needs to be expanded but I see no need for deletion. Notability established by its death threat. — The Hooded Man ♃♂ 22:32, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
• Weak keep per JJay. Stifle 01:57, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.