Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/RussArt.com

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete, after discounting single-purpose accounts and/or arguments that do not relate to Wikipedia policy. --Sam Blanning^(talk) 21:44, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] RussArt.com

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One of many Netflix clone sites. There is nothing particularly notable about this one. Was speedy deleted under A7, but its creator objected, and I felt that in the interest of fairness, we might as well open this up for debate: the fact that they specialize in Russian movies is something unique, enough to pass A7. But I still don't see notability to the level of WP:WEB here. Mangojuice^talk 18:37, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

• Even though it utilizes the same Netflix business model (with some deviation, like "express" service), it deliberately avoids the Netflix content, trying to position itself as a mutual exclusive company content wise.

  I am using both companies for my "movies" needs, just because of the unique RussArt.com content. For more then 6 million Russian speaking people in US, RussArt.com is really a one of the few threads which they can use to preserve their culture.

  RussArt also provides with extensive info about movies/TV serials which help to make a decision what to order next.

  I am actually looking for another site like RussArt.com, but dedicated to exclusevly French movies, since Netflix does not satisfy my demand on them either, but cannot find it just yet....

  --Bakhteiarov 19:46, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

  • Keep To me it is very offensive that a mass culture giant Netflix dealing 90% in Hollywood production, shields honorable attempts to compete in cultural niches. Let's take a hypothetical site that, say, rents gay and lesbian movies. Well, Netflix does carry the Brokeback Mountain, so let's ban the site from everywhere because it's just another copycat. That's a poor approach, missing the points: (1) the gay and lesbian community is proud to have their own service, (2) there is much more for the visitors than just rentals - like gay and lesbian news, events, movie reviews from particular angle, etc.

    I vote for diversity - let's allow the Russian/Ukranian/Jewish/etc. American community to have their cinema portal RussArt.com, which also happens to rent DVDs like Netflix does, - listed.

    Helgrot 03:02, 17 October 2006 (UTC) — Possible single purpose account: Helgrot (talk • contribs) has made few or no other contributions outside this topic.

• This AfD nomination was incomplete. It is listed now. DumbBOT 12:23, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
• Delete I don't see this passing WP:WEB at present. No coverage in reliable sources. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 13:41, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
• Keep It passes WP:WEB. The Internet Movie Database and Google are pretty reliable sources. There more then several references from both of them. Also, over 6 million people culture in the US is pretty notable. Especially if you take into account that this culture influences the World's one very much. Should I present a list of movie producers/composers/musicians/artists/authors here for those who is unaware? --Bakhteiarov 13:51, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
  • IMDB and Google (1) aren't reliable sources in the Wikipedia sense and (2) offer only very tangential information. Mangojuice^talk 14:01, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
  • What you should present is a list of source citations for in-depth books and articles written about this web site by people independent of its and its creators/publishers, to demonstrate that the WP:WEB criteria are satisfied. A simple assertion, with no cited sources, carries little weight, which is lessened yet further when it is claimed alongside that Google is somehow a source. Uncle G 14:26, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
    • Well, I did not know, that I should explain that "Google Video" is not only a search engine per se... but it is now looks like the case. Google has gone well beyond of being search engine and became a content provider. I used coverage from Google Video, which is a reputable content provider on the Net. --Bakhteiarov 14:45, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
      • When I search for "RussArt" in Google Video, it returns a bunch of videos in Russian. How does that reflect on RussArt.com? Surely, the videos RussArt provides are notable. Mangojuice^talk 14:53, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
      • You still aren't citing sources. Please cite sources. Uncle G 15:56, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
• Please, explain me what the difference in notability with SmartFlix and RussArt.com, for instance? --Bakhteiarov 14:59, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
• Keep I was interested in the subject and was able to find it on the Web easily. Google Video and IMDB look like quite reliable sources to me. Helgrot 15:02, 17 October 2006 (UTC) — Helgrot (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
  • Struck, second vote from this user, also likely sockpuppet (see contribs). Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 15:09, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
• Delete (I originally speedied the article); fails WP:WEB and WP:V. NawlinWiki 15:13, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
• I'm not voting second time, I'm just offering more information. You guys might not read Russian and in such case it's hard for you to see what I see. I spent some time on this site and see that DVD rentals is just a small part of it. It offers public forum, where anyone can contribute content, post reviews and comments. It has online games, challenging knowledge on russisn cinema and actors. It has tons of news articles about movies and actors, including biographies and anecdotes. So I'd qualify it at least 50% as a cultural hub. Helgrot 15:16, 17 October 2006 (UTC) — Helgrot (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
  • None of that is relevant. The criteria are WP:WEB. cite sources to show that this web site satisfies them. Uncle G 15:56, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
• Sorry, I need to repeat this, since everybody decide not pay attention to this, - Please, explain me what's the difference in notability between SmartFlix and RussArt.com, for instance? --Bakhteiarov 15:41, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
  • It's irrelevant. "If article X then article Y." is a fallacious argument. You've been told what to do to make a good argument: cite sources to demonstrate that the WP:WEB criteria are satisfied. You still haven't cited a single source. Uncle G 15:56, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
  • I am sort of agree with you, from another hand, in Aristotel logic, it is called transitivity and can be very well applied here. --Bakhteiarov 16:35, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
    • Just because SmartFlix isn't up for deletion doesn't mean no one thinks it should be deleted. I for one think that if this is deleted, SmartFlix should be too - this would be a solid precedent. Mangojuice^talk 16:50, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
    • I also like this TigerCinema. I do not mind to be deleted if you guys apply the same set of rules to everybody...Why the "Russian" word has caused such a turmoil in your rows? Why did not you notice all these similar articles before the Russian has poped up? --Bakhteiarov 18:15, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
• Comrade Bakhteiarov: looks like they are against cultural diversity here. Isn't it illegal in the US? Shall we fetch a good lawyer from the great Russian American community and see what we can do this way? Helgrot 15:49, 17 October 2006 (UTC) — Helgrot (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
  • I suggest you look at WP:LEGAL. — Dark Shikari ^talk/_contribs 18:20, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
• No, it is about their notability, so far I have not seen here a single Russian-speaking editor, so they just do not notice this....but lot's of Russians who live in US do! --Bakhteiarov 15:54, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. It just doesn't meet notability; all other discussion is irrelevant if you can't get past WP:N. --Aaron 17:48, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

• Awesome possibilities to be in charge of the very latest Russian movies. Love it!! Michael ÷Pycckue 18:41, 17 October 2006 (UTC) — Pycckue (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

• Delete - blatant advertisement. This and other pages like this one should be deleted. 130.36.62.140 22:02, 17 October 2006 (UTC)rusman

• Hi all. Ok, here is the thing. I'm Russian living in US for the past 10 years. I moved to US when I was 14. Even though, I speak, read and write almost perfectly in my native language, sometimes I come accross words that I never heard before. Believe it or not, when I search Google for the newly heard word, it often displays Wikepedia's page in the first few results. For the past month, it helped me learn 3 new words in my native language. Deleting this content would be a huge mistake. Thank you. 22:15, 17 October 2006 (UTC)~ Dmitriy —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 129.188.33.222 (talk • contribs).

• Keep RussArt has a good source of Russian cartoons and fables for Russian children! -Ludmila Globa —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ludmila Globa (talk • contribs) 00:56, 18 October 2006. — Ludmila Globa (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
• Comment: The Russian Wikipedia does not have an article on RussArt.com. Vectro 02:30, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Followup comment: There was a RussArt.com article on the Russian Wikipedia, but it was speedily deleted. It is mentioned on the Russian wikipedia article for "film", however. Vectro 05:44, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
• Delete --Peta 03:46, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
• Delete; fails WP:WEB, WP:RS, WP:V, etc. And I wouldn't mind seeing sources for the claim that 90% of what Netflix carries are Hollywood productions. I've been getting Bollywood movies from them for over a year now. ergot 19:41, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, apparently you mean Netflix not RussArt.com here, since RussArt.com does not carry a single Indian movie. So, your comment looks more then a strange one to me.--User:Bakhteiarov 14:00, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, that is what I said. I have rented literally hundreds of Indian movies from Netflix, thus I am inclined to doubt Helgrot's claim above that 90% of the movies that Netflix carries are Hollywood productions. It doesn't really have any bearing on this AfD discussion, it just struck me as being a strange and unlikely claim. ergot 14:25, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

I am Netflix customer too, but I am a customer of RussArt either, do you think it is because I have spare $20 a month? If you are unable to verify the facts, please do not comment, but you have decided to vote even! --Bakhteiarov 15:18, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

What are you talking about? I said that the article fails WP:WEB, WP:RS, and WP:V, which is all that matters here. ergot 15:35, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

For billions, Bollywood is not notable. Notability is very subjective matter.--Bakhteiarov 11:23, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Okay, so now you're saying that we should delete the Bollywood article? What does that have to do with anything? If you want to try to get that deleted, go nominate it and see how it goes. What we are talking about here is RussArt.com, which doesn't meet our criteria for inclusion and should be deleted as such. As a matter of fact, it probably could have been speedied under CSD G11, which we have recently been directed by the Wikimedia Foundation to vigilantly enforce. ergot 15:20, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, exactly. I (and billions other people) think Bollywood is not notable. Existence of the article like Bollywood emphasizes the fact that Wikipedia article admission process is far from perfect. And I would move Bollywood article to indian Wikipedia.--66.189.88.27 20:24, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

So do like I suggested and go nominate it for deletion. I would also suggest that you take a look at our criteria for notability. But what we are discussing here is RussArt.com. ergot 00:26, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

• Keep Russian-speaking people are of different religions, political convictions, and races. RussArt.com is looking beyond any of these, aiming to unite Russian-speaking migrants on a ground of Russian language and culture. Just my 2 cents... 65.213.54.119 19:42, 19 October 2006 (UTC)Wolf — 65.213.54.119 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

• Delete per nom Anomo 01:56, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

This human admin system does not look sustainable to me, number of new articles grows in geometric progression, admins are not able to catch everything up even today. --Bakhteiarov 02:37, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

• Delete - do not see anything encyclopedic about this. It is good comercial service catering to Russian speaking movielovers in continental US, but I do not think this is a reason enough for an article. There is nothing special or unique about it except for the large specialised collection of the DVDs that are crossreferenced with actors/movies database. The bisness model isn't unique, and for info on movies/actors one usually goes to specialized Russian sites like http://www.rusactors.ru, http://www.ruskino.ru/, http://www.kinoexpert.ru as well as for authoritive resources in the RUNET or Wikipeia itself Актёры СССР, Актрисы СССР, Актёры России, Кинематограф России and such —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dmaryakh (talk • contribs) 02:25, 23 October 2006. — Dmaryakh (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
  • Note: Dmaryakh's original Russian text were all redlinks to the English Wikipedia; only the last exists on the Russion Wikipedia, and is the article for "Cinema of Russia". Vectro 15:35, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

• Comment Just wanted to point to the previous note that the topic under which RussArt.com is being published is called "List of online DVD rental companies" and has nothing to do with general encyclopedic content about Russian cinema. Helgrot 04:36, 23 October 2006 (UTC) — Helgrot (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

• Keep - The Chinese and Indian DVD rental sites are listed, why the Russian one shouldn't be? - Observer —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.202.3.60 (talk • contribs) 04:33, 23 October 2006. — 71.202.3.60 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

• Keep I've read about it on a forum and was curious enough to follow the link. I tend to agree with the previous voter. 216.88.134.61 21:41, 24 October 2006 (UTC) — 216.88.134.61 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
  • This user seems to be responding to this canvassing request. Interestingly, the comments on the forum are mostly in favor of (or indifferent to) deletion. Vectro 22:26, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
    • "Well, despite the title of this thread, they don't ask for our vote, they ask for well-thought arguments, and mainly, they want YOU to cite sources to satisfy their criteria. Good luck!" -- Solominka.
    • "Коммерция, однака... Ежели бы Вы художникам помогали... А так... Свой бизнесс делаете... Нет, не буду голосовать... Платное искусство в массы?" by mastadont, which babelfish translates to "Commerce, odnaka... If you helped artists... But so... Your bizness you make... No, not I will vote... Paid skill into the masses?"
  • More notes about canvassing: The canvasser appears to be Helgrot (talk • contribs); I have placed evidence on his/her talk page, and the associated profile of the canvasser suggests that s/he is affiliated with RussArt.com. Vectro 22:58, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

• Comment Russian speaking people in US is a tiny slice of population (~ 2.6%), so social clubs and services for these people are barely notable in american society, meaning they just cannot be as notable as, say Netflix. Having said this, it is still 6-7 millions, which is a size of some European country. Notability notion, here, materializes a simplified democratic principle, - "the size does matter" and that the majority defines the ultimate truth, a.k.a. consensus. As related to RussArt.com article, - I am satisfied with the discussion and as long as "ALL ANIMALS ARE EQUAL" in the List of online DVD rental companies on Wikipedia, - we are in a concensus here :-). Thanks.

--Bakhteiarov 11:23, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.