Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Reid Horkins

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was DELETE. Harro5 01:44, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reid Horkins

Biography of someone who i believe to be non-notable. He is described as a rapper, but his only release is a video on YouTube. I tagged as a speedy, but the page author removed the tag and claims on the talk page that he is an "internet phenomenon"; rather than just re-tagging as CSD, which I suspect would just be reverted, I'm listing on AfD to get wider opinion. Delete or userfy, possibly speedy AJR | Talk 00:11, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

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I was the one responsible for deleting the notice becuase it said "delete this if you are intending to edit the article" which i have done since then. While I do understand that my use of the phrase "internet phenomenon" was an overstatement, he is still widely known and regarded within the toronto private school community and I have known other wikipedia artciles which target a similarly small audiance. I did not author the article origionaly but I have done alot of work to clean it up from the origional post. I think considering how new this article is it should at least be given time to be refined. several people have expressed thier interest to me about seeing this article kept alive and made more legitimate and I have told them to voice thier opinions here on wikipedia. hopefully they will take my advice. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Faltru (talk • contribs).

• Don't Delete It's true, this guy has ridiculous quotes. Reid is awesome. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.42.6.152 (talk • contribs).
• Don't Delete Reid Horkins may be non-notable to you because you do not live in Toronto. He is a well known individual within the independant music scene in southern Ontario. A person does not need to be well known by millions of people to be worthy of a wikipedia page, im sure many of the now high traffic pages began with a small amount of public knowledge concerning the person/incident etc. I see no valid reason for this page to be up for deletion despite the fact that he is not widely recognized outside of Toronto, Canada. 65.95.227.28 00:57, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
• Delete not notable under the WP:MUSIC. (I live near Toronto and have never heard of him, and even if I had he would not be sufficiently notable for an encyclopedia article.) Bucketsofg 01:05, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. Even if this is notable, which I doubt, it falls under WP:Vanity. All of the external links have nothing to do with the article and personally the raps on there do not seem very professional. SorryGuy 01:06, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. Not notable, plenty of unverifiable opinion. Fluit 01:11, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
• Delete Not notable. Passes no notability tests.  : ( Lonesomedovechocolate 01:18, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
• Delete "Internet phenomena" tend to have more than three Google hits, like this guy does. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 02:00, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
• Delete nn. Sheehan (Talk) 02:33, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
• Don't delete Keep the article up, Reid is hard working and will prove to you all non-believers that his lyrics and work are proffesional. We just need more time to perfect the website. He will be great (i guarentee) and within Toronto he has grown to be quite popular over the past couple of weeks. He's well deserving of a page. - GM, Fan —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.49.119.51 (talk • contribs).
• Delete, unusually non-notable --Deville (Talk) 03:26, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
• Move to BJAODN/Uncyclopedia/Myspace. This is freakin' hilarious stuff, but it's not notable, and there's no reason to believe it ever will be. --M@rēino 03:35, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, as per nom --Mason 04:06, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
• Delete Not quite good enough for BJAODN, but pretty funny. Upper class suburban kid at a fancy private school who fancies himself a rapper. Hey, with the right promotion, maybe he could be the next Vanilla Ice. But I doubt it. Eminently non-notable. Fan1967 04:12, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
• Move to User Page On the whole, while Reid Horkins is most certainly non-notable, there's nothing wrong with him having all this information about himself on his own user page. That said, if it was just out-and-out removed, I doubt I'd lose any sleep; I'm just offering an alternative. EVula 04:19, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
• Delete Not-notable. Does not have any major hits. --Siva1979^{Talk to me} 09:39, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
• Delete I considered the cheerleader's arguments. This is still just not notable. Danny Lilithborne 09:59, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
• Delete, nn. --Terence Ong 10:16, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
• Do not delete this page, a tribute to all aspiring artists out there.-—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 206.130.23.67 (talk • contribs).
• Do not delete this atricle, I have spoken with numerous Torontonians who were previously unaware of the artistic talents of Reid. He is truly a model for perserverance and commitment to achieveing your true goals. Reid is the best discovery Ive made through Wiki and I will not stand for his amazing Wik to be deleted. -—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Alomasney (talk • contribs).

This must be a new meaning of the word "amazing" that I am completely unfamiliar with. Fluit 17:27, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

• Don't Delete Jive records have contacted the Horkins family about Reid's potential in the music industry. -—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 206.130.23.67 (talk • contribs).
• Delete Not notable, speculative, no citation, looks like vanity. Although amusing not quite BJAODN material.--Tollwutig 15:14, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
• Delete as non-notable vanity just this side of BJAODN. But this no-doubt talented high school student should console himself on the grounds that the title of his next tour-de-force ("Dey Dissed My Wikispam, Yo") has been assured. RGTraynor 15:26, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
• don't deletehis next concert is going to be bomb this weekend. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 206.130.23.67 (talk • contribs).
• don't deleteAs i mentioned earlier, most of the vanity parts of the page have been removed. we are still working to clean it up.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Faltru (talk • contribs).
• Don't DeleteI am a promoter in the Toronto Rap scene, and while this kid is starting small, the Toronto private school rap clique loves him, and he has been freestyling at several exlusive parties, with more to come this summer. He's sticking to a small, but lucrative market, and his innovations should be recognized. (69.159.80.21) (Julius Marx, Toronto, ON)

Removing some content doesn't make it any less of a vanity page, or the individual any more notable.

Reminder to all: please sign your posts (~~~~), and please refrain from voting multiple times (I'm looking at you, 206.130.23.67). EVula 16:01, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

• Don't delete I am a hardworker artist amiming to make it big in the industry, the work and time I have put into my more recent articles are evident. I believe, aswell as the music proffersors at the UNiversity of Toronto asell as YOrk Music that my work will prove to be succesful once it has all been released. For those that are not familiar with the those to universities they are 2 of the best music programs in Canada, and have produced many great musicians in the past. I am popular in the highschool and local university scene and many people can pledge for that. -Reid HOrkins [~~~~)
• Delete Non-notable, meatpuppet supported. --InShaneee 17:32, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
• DON'T DELETE. I am in the same boat as Mr. Marx, Reid Horkins seems to have struck upon a bountiful and Lucrative market, his novelty is greatly respected and appreciated by youth in their late teens. He has a political message and is a refreshing new prespective on the Toronto Rap scene. From reading previous (now deleted) posts and from word of mouth, I have learned that even young adults who are not inspired by mainstream Rap are captivated by this young phenom. Mr. Horkins is the hairbringer of the new wave of Rap and Hip Hop in youth, and I would be devastated if he were to be eliminated from this superior website. A Rapper and overall character of his calibre is not something WIKIPEDIA should shy away from. Granted that he is greatly different from other Rap artists, what would the mainstream media think of a website that turned away the next Eminem. I eagerly await the next hot single or music video that Rappin Reid releases, and please Wikipedia, and commited readers, do not delete or vouch for the deletion of this rising star. (Alex Lomasney)

DON"T DELETE - Reid Horkins, although unknown to most, shows great potential and if this is deleted it will only come back later in years to come when Reid breaks out and shocks the world.

• Do not delete As author to the article I have written an article about a hardworking individual who is starting to make his name heard in the music industry. He is popular around and many of his friends and fans have expressed to me that they would like a page written about him. So i have done so. WHen I saw the article was up for deletion i sent an email to numerous individuals at my school informing them about the ongoing debate about whether or not the article should be aloud. That is why we see numerous posts under the same IP 206.130.23.67. - Strachan Jarvis [~~~~)

Delete per everyone that's not a puppet. Eivind^t@c 18:08, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per above, multiple votes or multiple puppet votes exacerbating it. --ES2 18:25, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
• Don't Delete growing fan base among Toronto teen culture, ameliorates reputation as young artist: pertinent to demographic
• Strong Comment: Before any more of you meatpuppets post "Don't Delete" warnings, use your computer skills to visit WP:MUSIC. There you will see the guidelines to assessing a musician's notability. Mr. Horkins does not have a charted hit. He has not gone on a national tour. He does not have multiple hardcopy publication credits, nor has put out albums to the general public, nor has won a major national musical award, nor has written several works in widespread national or international use, nor receives regular national radio airplay. Whether he might do any of these things in the future is irrelevant. Whether you like the one song he's ever done is irrelevant. Whether you like his performances is irrelevant too. Unless you can assert that he meets Wikipedia's guidelines for notability, you're wasting your time. RGTraynor 19:41, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
• Strong Delete per all above. Looking at the video I doubt most of the claims in the article, it's just completely banal. NTK 19:54, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
• Don't delete. To the strong delete above. I first question your knowledge of Toronto and the music community in Toronto. While you can doubt the claims in the article, you have nothing to support the doubts. Do you know Reid Horkins personally? I doubt. Your doubts are empty and most certainly inane. Get yourself another few years of schooling. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.31.247.232 (talk • contribs).

First-hand knowledge of an individual isn't necessary to hold the article up to Wikipedia's content requirements; it fails, so it should be deleted (or shuffled to the individual's user page, which is what I've suggested). In addition, personal attacks are a pretty poor way to garner support for your argument. Also, please sign your posts, even if you haven't registered. EVula 20:44, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

The reason why there are so many posts from IP 206.130.23.67 is becuase of a school network. Just wanted to clear that up.

• • Comment Editors with little or no history carry little or no weight in the AfD deliberations. So you can tell your calssmates to quit wasting their time. This isn't an election. Fishhead64 21:22, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Don't Delete but also a potential solution How about the people who wish the article to be deleted summarize what they expect to see in a creditable article. I will go through the article put some serious time into it and then refresh it. Obviously we are debating whethor or not he is notable for Wikipedia but how about we look past and turn our backs to that and make an article which not only contains in many eyes a notable being but also contains alot of creditable volume. ~~Strachan Jarvis

The most relevant link about Wikipedia policy: Wikipedia:Notability (music) (Reid Horkins fails on all accounts, as near as I can tell). It doesn't matter if you manage to somehow write prose that makes God Himself weep upon reading; Reid Horkins fails all established criteria for proving a musician's notability. EVula 22:03, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Than there is no need to list him as a musician along with more renound or legitimate artists, surely there is a catagory for underground or area specific people.

• Delete Non-notable, vanity. Fishhead64 21:22, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
• Dont Delete Isn't Wikipedia all about inclusiveness? You sound like George Bush, trying to put a man down for being different. If Wikipedia's policy is that he has to have a charted hit, doesn't that exclude all those indy artists who may be just as talented as charted ones, but play to small crowds and intimate audiences? The fact that McNugget hasn't sold out yet, in my opinion, makes him more noteworthy. Let's take the ideals of free expression that Reid so proudly supports and let the world recognize a burgeoning superstar in the indy rap world. (Julius Marx) (69.159.80.21)
• DONT" dont Delete. this is nonsense (or perhaps a bad joke). -- getcrunkjuice^contribs 22:17, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
• STRONG KEEP I have seen Reid Horkins rap at the Marquis Theatre on Coxwell in Toronto. I am not part of the private school scene. This shows how fast Reid is growing, it would be pointless to delete his article and then have to redo it a couple months in the future. PLEASE WIKIPEDIA, I donated to your fundraiser campaign. I love wikipedia and I love Toronto. I believe this article to be valid. -Matt Wilson (64.231.177.72 23:09, 13 April 2006 (UTC))
• Delete con fuoco, may the fleas of a thousand camels infest these sockpuppets.  RasputinAXP  c 23:37, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
• Don't Delete Reid Horkins is circulating the private school sector of the GTA at a phenomenal rate. To delete him now would be a mistake, I gaurantee with the momentum McNugget has picked up, he will soon be well known. With more time and editing, this article can be made to better reflect wikipedia standards. -James Wolfe
• Dont Delete I am a record producer and Alumn of Crescent School and I was looking at the Crescent School wik and I came across Reid Horkins under Notable Alumni. I noticed that he had a link and we all know that Wikipedia's best asset is not the articles its' links. I clicked on his name and found out that he is a rapper who is taking over the private school sector of Toronto. The private school sector is one of the largest producers of Hip Hop music in all of Canada so I followed the links to his web page and bought his CD 'Stickin to the Man'. I loved it and have been in touch with Mr. Horkins on a possible deal. Thanks Wikipedia for your help in finding the next Canadian Star.

• Comment Well, there's the solution. If you're a record producer, sign him to a deal, and release a CD on a recognized label. As soon as that happens, and it shows reasonable sales volume, he would qualify to be added back into Wikipedia. Fan1967 00:13, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

• Delete. If his only appearance is on Youtube, he's not notable. I'm on youtube, do I get an article too? Heck, do the other 10000+ youtubers get articles? The answer is no. Also, the sockpuppetry suprises me as this guy is definitely not notable.--Frenchman113 00:11, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
• Delete. It's obvious this is nothing but a joke. —Aiden 00:19, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
• Don't Delete. I am a student at Jarvis Collegiate a high school that is very different both socio-economically and geogrpahically from Crescent School, and I have heard of and enjoy Reid Horkin's music. He is popular among my peers, and we all feel that this page shouldn't be deleted, and it's deletion would be an insult to Reid and his fan base. I am tired of people voting against this who don't live anywhere near Toronto, and who have zero knowledge of the Toronto Hip-Hop scene.
• "Don't Delete" I also witnessed Reid's performance at the Marquee theatre, and I feel he has potential as not only a rapper, but an entertainer. Wikipdeia has a lot more to lose then gain by deleting Reid from its database. If people are digging his beats and rhymes, why shouldn't they be able to learn about this budding rapper off of Wikipedia. Personally, whenever I want to learn more about anything in particular, this site is the first one I go too, and I know that applies to many people. Why should all these people be shut out from learning about a possible new up-and-comer, just because a select few feel different?
• In response to all the people saying hes not a muscisian Although we belive he is and should be listed as such several people have told us he doesn't belong in that catagory, so if there is a more legitimate catagory for him please tell us and we can change it.
• In response to all the people saying non-notable There are many other articles which speak to a small audiance, one much smaller than this I might add. If need be i'll pull some up.

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.